Calling All 60 Month Vets

The most difficult things for vet rewards are trying to not make them too good.

Bonuses like tailor tokens, respecs, merits, and things like that are fine to give out. Those are all things that people can get in other ways. However, when you hand out things like the world traveler, that gives a clear advantage to vet players who can use it to change their builds and eke out that last bit of effectiveness. Imagine if Ninja Run had been a 60+ vet reward and not a pay pack (arguably, everyone has equal access to pay packs).

Now the issue becomes keeping vets interested without annoying the lower-tier people. Even with the most recent bonuses I've seen vet posts who say things like "This is a crappy bonus, why can't we have (insert extremely powerful/advantageous bonus here)?" For every overly useful perk that vets get, that's another thing for non-vets (or at least lower-tier vets) to fuss over.

I only just recently earned my team recall power. I've been waiting on that one for a LONG, LONG time. It completely changes the sorts of tactics you can employ for certain task forces and can dramatically speed up your run time. That's the sort of thing that gives clear advantages to vets that non-vets are within their right to complain about.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

What you are asking for completely defeats the purpose of the system in question.

Veteran Rewards FAQ:
This information was available before launch of the program, and is still accessible from the main website.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

I think this is the line that the developers must walk. Most of the time they succeed, but not always.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

A never-ending Veteran Reward program tells new players that they will always have something to look forward to.

Wow, I guess it can mean whatever point we're espousing, eh?

FALSE!
For the system to actually be "fair", it has to be CONSISTENT. Someone starting today gets the rewards at the same rate that everyone else did. What is 'fair' may not be consistent with what YOU WANT, but that's life.

"Fair": "without favouring one party, in a fair even-handed manner".

Never-ending Veteran Rewards favour players that started playing earlier over players that started playing later. They are "unfair".

PS, I think the word you veterans want is "Just". Not "Fair".

No one is being favored in any way. They get the same rewards after the same amount of time. You sound like a little child who wants to know why they aren't allowed to do the same things as their older sibling.

Uh, no. Because with my older sibling, by the time I get to 18, I'll have all the same rights and privileges they do. With endless Veteran Rewards, there is no point at which I will ever be equal to my in-game "older siblings".

re·ward

[ri-wawrd]
–noun

1. a sum of money offered for the detection or capture of a criminal, the recovery of lost or stolen property, etc.
2. something given or received in return or recompense for service, merit, hardship, etc.

There is nothing "unfair" about a reward.

You and your friend go to lunch. His lunch is free because his frequent customer lunch card is punched six times while yours only has two. Is it "unfair"? Of coursenot. Same reward for the same deed, in this case going to the same place for lunch seven times. In our case lunch is time played.

More or less correct. Rewards generally are not fair. They are often just.

Once again - unfair, because the friend is being treated differently from you. But just, because the friend has paid dues, and you have not.

Word usage is important. Not all things that are fair are just, and not all things that are just are fair.

/this, many times.

[QUOTE=Eiko-chan;2805419]I'm sure I'll still be around in 30 months when I get my 60 month vet reward.

And in 30 months, I'll still be really annoyed by the fact that there are 39 months of rewards out there I don't have, and will never have. [quote]

Short of the game ending, though, you would have the exact same chance to get them the exact same way.
No, that's not it. It's not that it "could(n't) possibly match the benefit of your subscription fee in 2006" (or 2005, 2004...) It's for having the sub be *ongoing* since then.

After all, if I had a friend start the same time I did (roughly a week before my forum sub shown to the left) but they left for three years, then came back - would their renewed sub really "have the same benefit?" It's done more for the company (continual income allowing further development) and I (meaning a long term player, not just me personally) am a better resource FOR them, between mentioning playing their game (drumming up interest - word of mouth, including "he's been doing so that long?" vs "They'll get tired of it in 30 days," as well as assisting others in game.

Now, yes, saying EVERYONE with those rewards is the same way is an assumption as well. But how many 60+ month "vets" do you think are forgotten credit card billing issues vs actual players here that long?

As the new player gets up in vet rewards (and comparable in game experience,) they also raise that same "benefit." (Which I don't think is the right term, just using it as reference to your own.)

But there aren't those two extremes - new and "been around since launch." There are people on the entire spectrum in between. There are people who were here at launch and left a year later. Someone who started in 2009 is getting more benefit (and being more of one) from the vet reward program than that launch sub.

I *will* say this is probably the closest you and I come to agreeing on the whole vet reward thing - I'm surprised the vet reward program ISN'T capped. I seem to recall (though I could be wrong) it initially was supposed to be, and they decided to reverse that and just keep going. Of course, the flip side of that is, if it IS capped, they would (I'd think) have to go against their "Not a major advantage" policy (and yes, I do think the 60 month one is still "not a major advantage") for the very last reward, as a "thanks for all this long time and all the time you may still stay with us" reward. That may well be what they're trying to avoid.

See my Guides and Tutorials

fair is a myth perpetuated to trick out of shape kids into playing dodgeball. cast it from your mind before considering the world.

I might be the one that brought fair into this thread, but I didn't bring it into the discussion. The most common rebuttal to any change in Veteran's Rewards has long been "Veteran Rewards are the only truly fair reward in the game!" I simply wanted to debunk this use of "fair".

Wrong. He is being treated differently from you at the moment, true - but you do not meet the same prerequisites for that treatment (only having two punches on your card instead of the required six.)

Definitions of fair that follow have meanings related to weather, complexion and the like trimmed.

Fair - oxford dictionary:
adjective 1 just or appropriate in the circumstances. 2 treating people equally

Fair - dictionary.com:

–adjective1.free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge.

2.legitimately sought, pursued, done, given, etc.; proper under the rules: a fair fight.

So, yes, both the restaurant and vet rewards, by these, are fair. When you reach 36 months, you will be treated the exact same way as everyone else who has reached 36 months in their subscription. (Barring technical issues, of course.)

"Unfair" would be a GM or Dev just dumping all the purples you can hold, twice a week, on all your characters "just because."

See my Guides and Tutorials

I am curious how you can claim this. You know when the game is ending so that when anyone that joins after a certain date will not get Vet rewards because there will be no game?
If you have a subscription for X amount of time, you will ALWAYS get the Vet reward for that date.

To play, have fun, enjoy the content made by the devs or in AE by players, make friends - NOT to collect Vet rewards. Are you implying people play games just to see how long they have had an active account?

And why are you making this like a race with a finish? They keep adding to it. They have done so 16 times, plus one more next week and another on deck. Like I asked above, do you know something about the termination of this game we all don't know?

Yes. One day I will die. I can only reach the end of infinity with infinite time. I know that I do not have infinite time. Therefore, I will never reach the end of infinite rewards.

That's just basic math.

Well, looks like this is done with that kind of statements. Enjoy, have fun.

The same can be said for the vets who patiently waited and earned their 66 months of vet rewards. So changing the system so you can get the stuff they waited for now would be grossly unfair to them.

Thank you for providing the argument that supports why the system should never be changed.

So...wait, why is people telling you this is a bad idea an issue again?

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Uhm. Anyone can get hover at level 6.

I'm advocating for a cap to Veteran's Reward - the cessation of adding new rewards.

I fail to see how that gets me anything "now".

So you want to punish the people that have shown themselves to be loyal customers because you haven't been a vet as long as they have?


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Ok. <pant> It's out of my system. I'm done laughing.

When we're talking about the difference between three years and six years, the concept of "proven to be loyal" really takes on a different meaning.

But more to the point, I advocate in favour of ending a policy that grossly disadvantages (and, in turn, DISCOURAGES) new customers without unduly depriving loyal customers of previous benefits.

The sense of entitlement displayed by (typically) 60+ month veterans never ceases to amaze me. You seem to think you're the reason this game exists. Your posts certainly convey that tone.