Q's Stone Armor's Real Effectiveness

Hey Tankers. I've come here to ask for your expert opinion on the so called tankiest of all Tanker sets, Stone Armor. Specifically I'd like to know about how effective it is pre-Granite Armor and without Teleport.

I ask because I'm planning to roll up a Kinetic Melee/Stone Armor Tank when GR comes out. I've played Stone Armor a few times before but could never make it far past level 22. The reason being that the set feels very ineffective when just running Rock Armor with SOs. Also, I was never sure if I would need TP to move vertically while tanking for teams. All the times I've tried the set I used a set of binds to turn Rooted off and turn my travel power on for movement between groups.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

I do not have data mined math tables to give you. But I have heard one statement over the years that seems to go uncontested. "Stone armor pre-granite is the worst armors of any set." I know it sounds like hyperbole, but that is seriously the word on the street. For what that is worth.

Well, there's no question that Stone armor is pretty squishy (for a tanker) on SO's prior to Granite... still I've leveled two stone tankers to 50 in the pre-IO era and was able to do the job, I just needed to exercise caution while tanking and possibly use more insps than other tankers needed.

I am a big believer in TP for a stone tanker... absent a kinetic on the team for speed boost you'll have two choices, move at the pace of an arthritic snail or toggle off your mez protection. Teleport is the only way to have tactical mobility without dropping Rooted or Granite. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of TP myself, but it's the only way to have mobility without sacrificing your mez protection on a stone tank.

Even with a kinetic there will be many occasions where you'll need SOME vertical mobility... without TP you won't even get over a small curb. It takes a little practice, but using TP for combat mobility isn't that hard. If you don't want to be forced into TP then the Stone armor set probably isn't the tanker you'd want to play.

Teleport is over-rated for stone tanks. Maps generally have plenty of ramps and notches to let non-jumpers get around. Yes, you'll need to take the long route at times, but I've never encountered a map where jumping was the only option.

Speed is only a problem if you want it to be. My stone tank currently has a top speed of 15 mph in Granite form (faster than unenhanced run); once I finish slotting, it'll be 22 mph (on a par with Swift or Sprint). Rooted Granite is still slow, but any situation where I need to have Rooted on is not a situation where I'm likely to be moving much.

Word on the street has the average IQ level of the asphalt.
For the purposes of reaching an intelligent decision for the OP here are the mids numbers for a SOed stone tank with fighting/fitness.

Def:S/L 33% F/C 8% NRG/NEG 33% Psi 47%
Resists: S/L/F/C 39%
Regen 373%

For comparison.....Willpower with identical pools.

Def:S/L 13% F/C/NRG/NEG 28% Psi 23%
Resists: S/L 70% F/C/NRG/NEG/Tox 12% Psi 43%
Regen 568%

WP is generally consider one of the top tanker choices for a SO build but from where I'm sitting the sets seem fairly similar.
If Granite bothers you but you still want stone for concept reasons consider the following options.

1.Take and slot aidself.
2.IO for regen
3.IO for typed defense.

When I leveled my stone/fire I attempted (succesfully) to undo every granite penalty but the -Jump. I discovered quite by accident that I had a softcap typed defense build and could run without granite at all. Getting much more mileage out of my +rech, +dmg, & +runspeed.

RE:teleport you can either learn to use it efficiently with keymapping and binds or you can learn to navigate the maps without it. Both work but the first option is likely the easier one.

SOed Stone pre granite is more effective than Ice armor when dealing with single targets (AVs), if you slot your IOs properly you can soft cap your def and also be sure to atleast 4 to 6 slot rooted its regen ability cannot be underestimated.

My Stone/Fire tank is great. I leveled to 50 with Air Sup and Fly for travel. I used +run speed IO's and bonuses to great effect. IIRC it is at 26mph in Granite. I did just fine without Teleport.

Also, because of the way I planned the IO's, I also took Tough and Weave. Not for when I was in Granite, but when I was on smaller teams and Granite was not needed. It has 39% S/L and 38% E/N defense when not in Granite.

I could have gotten the defense higher, but at the cost of run speed or recharge, which is at 67% (without Hasten in the build) . Regen, with Rooted is 540%, and without is 345%.

Now though, since I have the 60 month Vet reward, I respec'd into teleport. I dont have to have Recall Friend or Teleport Foe. I also, with Ninja Run and Sprint, have a 66mph run speed.

NR/Sprint for non-combat travel and Teleport for combat travel. On an ITF, it has been pinned in by around 14 of the Roman bosses, which prohibited it from moving, which also made me want to respec into TP. I made it to 50 without it, and it can be done. (I have two lvl 50 Stone/Fire tanks which I got to 50 without TP, the second one is on a deactivated account.)

Ice Ember

Thanks for your responses guys. You've given me some insight on Stone Armor as a whole. But perhaps I should've been more clear in my OP. I don't plan to run with SOs the entire time. I mentioned them because I usually don't start picking up IOs until 30 so I've gotta survive eight levels before I can start getting +Defense or +Regen. I'm definitely not thinking about skipping Granite. The look of it is what's driving me to play Stone Armor at all .

I'm familiar with using Teleport for travel. I play Kheldians regularly and have the binds to manage TPing around. My main concern is fitting it into my build. I usually grab my travel prereq at 12 and then the travel power itself when it becomes available at 14. That's tricky to do with Stone because Rooted comes at 16 (The level at which I usually start getting the prereqs for Stamina). So my real question is when does TP become a major boon? Can I leave it out until right before I pick up Granite or should I grab it earlier to offset Rooted?

IN BEFORE SOMEONE POINTS IT OUT: Yes, I know Stone tanks get Rooted at 8. I'm also considering rolling the build as a Brute which is where the level issue comes up.

Makes me wonder if he is talking about a brute. If you are getting around fine without TP with Rooted, then you may not need TP.

Look into Gift of the Ancients +runspeed defense IO.

Ice Ember

Now I'm a bit of a n00b to Stone tankers and tankers in general, with my Stone/SS tank currently at 34. I'm also not a big believer in there being only one "right" way of doing things in CoH.

So I took Super Jump for my Stone's travel power. And filled the prerequisite with Jump Kick, because I was curious as to what Granite Armor looked like when you jump kicked. Cue cries of me "doing it wrong."

But I've really enjoyed it. Granite Armor's recharge penalty is mitigated in part by Jump Kick's fast recharge, helping to really fill out my attack chain. This is especially true when Hasten is down. While there are times I need to detoggle Stone Armor in order to go vertical, it recharges quickly enough that it's not a huge issue.

I'm not going to win any races, but with a bit of practice I've learned how to manage charging in and quickly toggling Granite Armor before the enemy can get their attacks off. If I actually need to hit Rooted, then it's a rough fight and I'm not going to be moving around much.

So, no, I don't see Teleport as absolutely mandatory for Stone Armor to work. If it doesn't fit your concept, don't do it.

(oh, and for the curious: Jump Kick with Granite Armor looks really, really weird. The only thing stranger I've seen was when I saw a Stone/Dual Blades tank. The rapiers were like toothpicks on that thing)

Minor thread jack but if I had to do all over again I would have gone Stone/DB.
Blinding Feint can easily be permaed and perfectly cancels out the -dmg from granite.
The nature of the armor also means that.....
1.I won't have to break a combo for a heal or somesuch.
2.The rather large attack chains mean I should be able to basically ingore the recharge penalty.

Heck I may roll one up anyway. Already tanked 500 levels whats another 50?

I thought you cant do DB/stone?

Anyway - My stone/ice tank runs soft capped to s/l/e/n out of granite but that is a heavt IO build filled out in the 30s. Prior to that, it's a little squishy against non s/l damage. After 32 and Granite - I rarely need to use it, so I don't. I use it as an AV/GM solution or against heavily biased non s/l/psi damage for the extra resistance.

For normal travel I use runspeed bonuses and ninja run ( I hit 65 mph with nr + sprint ). I did take tp later in the 40s, but I did most of my leveling in the AE so I'd get up to ITF level faster.

I love my stone tank and playing a /stone brute right now hes at Level 47.

A few notes pre-granite is a suck fest at times. Its funny how on my brute pre granite many teams will want me to tank over the other brutes, I have to tell them plenty of times other brutes will usually be stronger pre granite.

One way to help out is to try and soft-cap Smash/lethal its not that hard but can be pricey. The good thing is sets like Kinetic combat max out at 35 so you can slot them early enough and still get great use out of them at 50 for soft-capping in and out of Granite.

On TP I feel it is a must especially if your on a fast moving team. Rooted and granite wont recharge fast enough between mobs. There is nothing more embarrassing then running into a mob not having your mez protection up and you get held and don't have a break free ready next thing you know your taking a dirtnap.

I have been on many teams with a stone both sides that didn't take TP and they look so sad trying to get around or jump up and help out the team from a mob above. Not taking TP may be fine for some but for someone like me who hates TP and who has a pocket kin at all times on my stone TP has been a great help.

Well if you want to get into the details you also have to consider Stone gets Earth's Embrace which gives even more HP and functions as a perfectly adequate self heal which WP lacks.
For most tank purposes heal>regen.

IIRC, if you 3 slot Health, Earth's Embrace and Rooted with Healing SOs you get some fairly effective regen out of pre-Granite Stone Armor with all 3 powers active. I am not sure what the numbers are but I am sure that IOs would improve your regen even more!

My own Stone tanker experience is with Stone/Ice which is highly survivable pre-Granite once you get Ice Patch. Of course Kinetic Melee looks to be fairly KD heavy so it may be that a Stone/KM tanker could be comparable in survivability to a Stone/Ice in a pre-Granite world.


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Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I'm reading it looks like Stone Armor functions best pre-Granite with high Regen, a little Resistance and as much S/L Defense as one can get.

Choosing a secondary with a good amount of mitigation looks to be important as well. Kin Melee looks like it could offer soft control comparable to SS. Any thoughts on that?