City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

A badge hunter's moral dilemma

Angryellow

By Angryellow,
Posted on: 2010-04-16 06:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Angryellow View Post
I was perusing Paragon Wiki and read up on I17, particularly the new badges. I read the part that stated that the new "1,000 badges earned" wouldn't be available until GR, and then it hit me like a brick; My main character and badger Pink Lioness is a hero to the core. In order for her to gain as many more badges as possible, she would have to... TURN HEEL! Now I'm conflicted. I want her to have those villain side badges, but I don't want to ruin my number one hero by turning her bad just for prideful badge scavenging. What's a man to do
Not only that, but there might be badges for staying a true blue hero, turning to the red side, etc.

 

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Originally Posted by Steelclaw View Post
Or.... She pulls a Manticore and goes undercover pretending to be a villain to gain their trust and infiltrate their ranks while always secretly adhering to the side of Truth, Justice and Pie.
Or she pulls a Manticore and acts like a loose cannon who ignores the rules when it suits him and..... oh, wait. That part wasn't an act, was it?

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Posted

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Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
Alternately, if the rewards for "never changing sides" can still be gotten if you go as far as Vigilante, then go back to Hero and stay there, I can briefly switch just until I get the redisde badges.
From my understanding, the rewards for "staying true" are available only to Heroes and Villains, not to Vigilantes or Rogues. Posi also said something way back at Hero Con that led me to believe that a Hero or Villain that had been through the morality gauntlet could still get these rewards, but would find it slower or harder to do so.

As far as a Hero going Vigilante, then back to Hero, you can't do that. At least, not directly. Morality was described as being like a wheel - once you start to shift, you have to go all the way around to get back. While it seems silly to say that someone who's fundamentally good, but acted a little naughty, has to become truly evil before becoming good again, it was necessary - The instant Going Rouge was announced, before we knew anything about it, people were announcing their plans to sit on the threshold between Good and Evil and bounce back and forth to reap whatever benefits they could. Making thechange cyclical allows people to do this, but not quickly.

@Roderick

 

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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan View Post
The tech for removing badges would need to be implemented though. I dont know if this is possible.
Eco
Couldn't it just work the same way as 1-9 Times the Victor?

 

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Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
As far as a Hero going Vigilante, then back to Hero, you can't do that. At least, not directly. Morality was described as being like a wheel - once you start to shift, you have to go all the way around to get back. While it seems silly to say that someone who's fundamentally good, but acted a little naughty, has to become truly evil before becoming good again, it was necessary - The instant Going Rouge was announced, before we knew anything about it, people were announcing their plans to sit on the threshold between Good and Evil and bounce back and forth to reap whatever benefits they could. Making the change cyclical allows people to do this, but not quickly.
Hm, I hadn't considered that - and it would kind of suck IC-wise if it really did work like that. It's not like there's any particular benefits from being able to bounce between Hero and Vigilante (except access to redside arcs and badges).



Character index

 

Posted

My main Hero will be staying a Hero, though I have plans to take her to Vigilante, as I can make it fit with her background. Unless, of course, going to Vigilante removes any chances of getting the perks for staying true to being a Hero. The same goes for my main Villain and being a Rogue.

Aside from that, while I'm not sure what, yet, I plan to make a new Hero and Villain badger that will switch sides as needed for badges.



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Posted

Debasement of moral values and degeneration of the upright mind through self-conflict and a dastardly turn of unfortunate events. Basically develop a backstory that has her going from rogue to villainess, and then back to hero through some form of self-redemption.

 

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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan View Post
I for one really hope this will happen somehow, because IMO it would help break the 'gotta have em all' mentality that perudes some of the badging community.
Trust me, it wont. It will only cause them to start ******** that the Dev's are evil, soul destroying, kitten murdering super Hitlers for having the *NERVE* to *dare* put in a badge that, god forbid, they can't get.

 

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Originally Posted by LiquidX View Post
Trust me, it wont. It will only cause them to start ******** that the Dev's are evil, soul destroying, kitten murdering super Hitlers for having the *NERVE* to *dare* put in a badge that, god forbid, they can't get.

And they'll get over it.

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Around 2032
I didn't say when, just that they will.

 

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Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
And they'll get over it.
Like the min/maxers who had to get used to no longer being able to herd an entire map by themselves and had to work to find the new upper limits of what their Tanks could do, badge hunters will eventually have to give up on "getting every badge in the game" and settle for "getting as many badges as possible on a certain character".



Character index

 

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Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
And they'll get over it.
...pfffffft HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Heeee, thanks Munki, I needed that laugh.

 

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Originally Posted by Angryellow View Post
I was perusing Paragon Wiki and read up on I17, particularly the new badges. I read the part that stated that the new "1,000 badges earned" wouldn't be available until GR, and then it hit me like a brick; My main character and badger Pink Lioness is a hero to the core. In order for her to gain as many more badges as possible, she would have to... TURN HEEL! Now I'm conflicted. I want her to have those villain side badges, but I don't want to ruin my number one hero by turning her bad just for prideful badge scavenging. What's a man to do

Well it depends on which badges you plan to go after. Exploration and History badges.. Oh I was just in the neighborhood and did some exploring/research.

Instance mission badges .. Hey the majority of those pit you against other villlain groups anyway and if your uptight about battling Longbow .. remember they are the "Bad Guys" along with rebel elements of Vanguard in the third arc in the RWZ (from Gausmann).

I don't plan to convert any of my Heroes or Villains totally instead making them Renegades/Vigilanties so they have access to both sides. And not all heroes are veiwed as squeaky clean either. Batman spend time being pursued by the same Police he was trying to assist in cleaning up Gothem (em?) city. Spiderman? The press painted him as everything from a villain to a show off. The X-men spent time hiding from or battling Givernment agencies that wanted to control and confine them for being "different".

So you're undercover in the Rogue Isles for a while and even a Mayhem can be explained away as.. "Yeah I helped rob the Atlas Bank but it got me in touch with contacts I needed to complete my real assignment. And besides I made sure every one involved in that bank job went to jail and the money was returned quickly." Plenty of ways to GR and stay heroic.. even if it is undercover. :-D

�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidX View Post
Trust me, it wont. It will only cause them to start ******** that the Dev's are evil, soul destroying, kitten murdering super Hitlers for having the *NERVE* to *dare* put in a badge that, god forbid, they can't get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
And they'll get over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Around 2032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
Like the min/maxers who had to get used to no longer being able to herd an entire map by themselves and had to work to find the new upper limits of what their Tanks could do, badge hunters will eventually have to give up on "getting every badge in the game" and settle for "getting as many badges as possible on a certain character".
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidX View Post
...pfffffft HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Heeee, thanks Munki, I needed that laugh.
Heh... I got over it about 5 years ago back when the Devs first started hinting about Crossovers.

Part of the reason I made a conscious effort to create two main hero badgers instead of the traditional one hero/one villain badger pair most people did is that I suspected, sooner or later, the Devs might eventually give us the Crossover ability in some form or fashion. I've had all the bases covered for years now.

While it may indeed turn out to be the case that we will never be able to have one single character able to earn "all the badges" I know I'm going to do my best to have a top "badger that crossed over" AND a top "badger that stayed true". This way I should ultimately have the best of both worlds no matter what the badge consequences are.

Therefore I raise two big middle fingers to those silly "people shouldn't have what they want" Devs out there whoever they may be.

Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀

 

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Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
As far as a Hero going Vigilante, then back to Hero, you can't do that. At least, not directly. Morality was described as being like a wheel - once you start to shift, you have to go all the way around to get back.
Please show me where they said that.

"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

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Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy View Post
Batman spend time being pursued by the same Police he was trying to assist in cleaning up Gothem (em?) city.
Gotham. It's actually a nickname for New York City.
Per Wikipedia:
Quote:
Writer Bill Finger commented on the naming of the city and reasoning for changing Batman's locale from Manhattan to a fictional city: "Originally I was going to call Gotham City 'Civic City'. Then I tried Capital City, then Coast City. Then I flipped through the phone book and spotted the name 'Gotham Jewelers' and said, 'That's it', Gotham City. We didn't call it New York because we didn't want anybody in any city to identify with it."

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Posted

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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
As far as a Hero going Vigilante, then back to Hero, you can't do that. At least, not directly. Morality was described as being like a wheel - once you start to shift, you have to go all the way around to get back. While it seems silly to say that someone who's fundamentally good, but acted a little naughty, has to become truly evil before becoming good again, it was necessary - The instant Going Rouge was announced, before we knew anything about it, people were announcing their plans to sit on the threshold between Good and Evil and bounce back and forth to reap whatever benefits they could. Making the change cyclical allows people to do this, but not quickly.
Please show me where they said that.
If we're assuming there's a set of things you have to do to shift to each "alignment setting" then it's possible (possible mind you) you have to do them in a one way circle in order to get back to where you started. It might not be directly possible to go from say Hero to Vigilante back to Hero without first going all the way through Villain and back.

But I thought the whole point of having to do a series of missions in order to shift in morality was going to be enough to keep people from "flip-flopping" every 5 minutes without forcing people to have to go all the way around the alignment circle to get back to the beginning. I mean if it's going to take the equivalent of say a few hours to switch alignments even one step in either direction then that should be more than enough to prevent flip-flops on a whim without having to force people to travel all the way around.

I guess we'll find out if traveling the morality circle is one way or two way soon enough.
I just think if it's one way that's going to be a needless hassle when there seems to be more realistic ways to control it.

Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀

 

Posted

Finally tracked down one nugget of info about the whole, "Don't change sides, get extra rewards" thing.

This comes from Orion_Star_EU's Going Rogue Info From Hero Con thread.

About halfway down the first post, it talks about the Going Rogue System. One of the things it says is this:

Quote:
You change your morality by completing special 'Morale' arcs in Preatoria:
  • Redeeming Villains will become Rogues, and will then become Heros
  • Falling Heroes will become Vigilantes, and will then become Villains
There will be Morale arcs available level X and above available in Praetoria (X is still to be determined).

Most badges will change their name, and some will change their art, when you change faction. You cannot obtain two copies of each accolade power.

Heroes and Villains who do not falter (switch sides) may be awarded with additional perks.
So, that's a MAYBE on the extra rewards thing...



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Posted

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Originally Posted by Kheldarn View Post
So, that's a MAYBE on the extra rewards thing...
Translation: Orion Star has confirmed rewards for staying either pure hero or villain, Jetpacks, buttcapes, Jetpack buttcapes, Moving hair, the ability to skip instead of walk and run, and big red balls in Going Rogue.

 

Posted

Until we get definitive info from the Devs, my speculation has lead me to two possible outcomes, with the first one having two sub-outcomes.

Speculative Outcome 1 - Loyalty Rewards
Speculative Sub-Outcome A - 100% Loyal
This outcome means that there will, in fact, be rewards for staying loyal to your side, Hero or Villain. If you dip into Vigilante (Heroes) or Rogue (Villains), you lose the rewards, and can not re-earn them.

Speculatvie Sub-Outcome B - Mostly Loyal
This outcome means that there will, in fact, be rewards for staying loyal to your side, Hero or Villain. However, if you dip into Vigilante (Heroes) or Rogue (Villains), it's OK, and you can keep your rewards.

Speculative Outcome 2 - No Loyalty Rewards
This outcome means that there will not, in fact, be any rewards for staying loyal to your side, Hero or Villain.

Based purely on my personal speculation, if there are Loyalty Rewards, Outcome 1B is my preference, though Outcome 1A will be fine, as well.

Regardless of the existance of Loyalty Rewards, my main Badgers will NOT be crossing over, period. It's not in character with them. Actually, very few of my characters will be crossing over.



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Posted

Easy. Separate Villain Badger.

to TO THE END!
Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!