D6 Taunter limitation proposal
By
black_barrier,
Posted on: 2010-04-09 08:27 in Everything about PvP
um i may be stupid and might have missed it, but rather than an eternal debate a captain could just call for a vote/rule change.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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Hi, I'm Slax and I was being sarcastic. Although I've never heard of your ice/ss and think siren's is goofy, don't take it personally.
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Originally Posted by Johnnykat
Not sure which was more funny, Slax thinking his was who I was referring to or you trumping his with Well's...either of which came quite a ways after I nightly cleared out SC with mine. Of course, no insult either of you two could retaliate with could hurt more then the fact that Elf Stalker on Freedom named his blaster with the same name as my old tanker
 lols. |
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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Vote then endless debate is more likely. This is why I'm forming my own league after this.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
um i may be stupid and might have missed it, but rather than an eternal debate a captain could just call for a vote/rule change.
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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Besides not once have i heard anyone say they wanted to quit due to a line up. What people have quit over is arguments, drama, and bs taunts in ac. (note: for the bs taunts in ac i only am referencing towards D6 not D8)
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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yeah.. ok... gambling.|
Originally Posted by Slax
Neither are problems, anticipating what the other team would bring is part of the strategy.
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this league is a joke.
that day we tied with u2bg was not because we really wanted to run that line up but we HAD to play everyone and sadly people who were on that d6 match had only tanks and an emp...you can't force people to lv up another toon and accolade/IO it within 5 min just because you don't like taunter line up...
and if we start again this retarded discussion about limiting ATs then we should really talk about limitation of psi/ems per team because THEY are the main reason people even started some retarded line ups...
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I thought BOBC/INA quit because they were too fat to fit in the league.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
Besides not once have i heard anyone say they wanted to quit due to a line up. What people have quit over is arguments, drama, and bs taunts in ac. (note: for the bs taunts in ac i only am referencing towards D6 not D8)
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that was kind of lame one, silit..i expected better trolling from you :O
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Originally Posted by Silit
I thought BOBC/INA quit because they were too fat to fit in the league.
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I expected better grammar from you. Oh wait.
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Originally Posted by EnD_Reitanna
that was kind of lame one, silit..i expected better trolling from you :O
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not happening, that would be try hard :P
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Originally Posted by Silit
I expected better grammar from you. Oh wait.
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Insults from Children who's only interaction with a real vagina was his mother's hurt.|
Originally Posted by Silit
I thought BOBC/INA quit because they were too fat to fit in the league.
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If you want to fix d6 - remove tie as an option - make matches win/loss
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IDK i am fat and still here so i guess your theory fails.
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Originally Posted by Silit
I thought BOBC/INA quit because they were too fat to fit in the league.
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"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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Please tell this to the leaders of U2BG, because I want to play my kin...
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Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
if you have a kin you dont need procs
the end |
@Ethical Inquiry
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fails on several levels Philly - it's a vert quote about an old Renegades pic, none of whom were actually on Rick's except for Max who is admitidly a big dude who looks like he could crush rocks with his teeth!
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
IDK i am fat and still here so i guess your theory fails.
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I liked what silit said but since I like frost elf d more, round one goes to her!
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Originally Posted by Silit
I thought BOBC/INA quit because they were too fat to fit in the league.
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http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
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Leaders of u2bg, if u have kin don neet prok.|
Originally Posted by Pareto
Please tell this to the leaders of U2BG, because I want to play my kin...
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Plz allow march 2 play hers, thx.
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
This is retarded. IF a vote on limiting taunters will be in effect, and IF (and i mean a big IF) if passes, I'm pretty sure the D6 section of the League will fold.
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agreed
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Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Limiting ATs or powersets is a step in the wrong direction. Some powers (ala sharks) have forced it but Taunt is not one of those powers. If we start this, we might as well limit the number of Psi/Ems on a team because that's why we have taunters in the first place.
Limiting the numbers of taunters is a bad idea. If you go down that route you'll be catering to the teams that want nothing but Emps and Psi/Ems which is boring as hell. Can we please keep a little variety? |
How about turning d6 into a pentad league. Harder to stack, opens up more ATs. Only thing I didnt like about limiting taunters is how abitrary it is, there are other boring team makeups as well. Pentad is less arbitrary to me at least. Its a simple rule, vs, cant have more than x of y.
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I was serious in my suggestion vote to remove tie as an option on d6 but keet points scale for win and loss. If tie results in nothing there is no reason to play to tie other than to force matches to run very very long. It does not negate the lineup only the strategy.
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Originally Posted by JKwervo
This is retarded. IF a vote on limiting taunters will be in effect, and IF (and i mean a big IF) if passes, I'm pretty sure the D6 section of the League will fold.
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What it is saying is that DR of enhancements is broken. I am pretty sure if we did more testing taunt is not the only victim.|
Originally Posted by LuxunS
Either way that statement says "Taunt res is broken". If someone has no taunt duration enhancements in the power against someone with assault/double assault its going to last the full duration. At minimum its going to last the full base duration regardless of the person's resistance or the taunter's slotting. Taunt has a base 10 second duration and recharge. Even unenhanced for duration, its easy to slot recharge to get the power below 5 seconds. That means that barring a person's evasion skill its possible to keep them at -150% range and stuck on a single target an entire match. I don't see how this is not broken. On open maps such as graveyard, eden, etc the player is effectively perma-caged.
I provided several points for why taunt teams are not good for the league and reasoning for why it should be limited, but I haven't seen any real legitimate reasons to allow such things. - ATs shouldn't be limited and lineups shouldn't be banned. Some broken powers have been banned. Taunt certainly falls in the broken category. How is perma -150% range and locked on a target less powerful then Corruptor LR? Besides no one is saying ban taunt, just limit the number of taunters per match to at least make things competitive. - Don't QQ about lineups, if you can't counter them stop being a noob. Really? There are obvious counters to the taunt lineup, one being stalkers which was demonstrated in thursdays matches. The points have already been made. Taunt lineups don't teach D6 players anything, they're not fun to play, and they don't encourage good pvp. Spending 10 minutes running around at -150% range while someone has me on auto follow and hits space bar is a waste of time. I could go to RWZ, target a pylon and hit 1,2,3 keys for 10 minutes and at least i'd be able to say I accomplished something. I find it amazing that the people most against banning taunt teams are accusing people of not knowing how to run a counter. They're the ones hiding behind broken powers and a really weak lineup. Remember D8 players, you get to play D8 matches and potentially help your weaker players in D6 matches. I'm only guaranteed to play 1 round a week. Playing against taunt teams IS NOT PVP. Its a stalling tactic. I'm disgusted that things like this are allowed for D6 matches. By not limiting things like this the pvp community is encouraging fiteclub garbage. The i13 changes were 2 steps back, arena options to turn them off was one step forward. Allowing fiteclub lineups in the arena is a step back. Hell if -Divine had lineups like these from the start, Eagle would still be leading that team. |
Taunt lineups may not be fun for you to play against but it may be fun for the team playing them. In fact I can assure you while I find them boring myself several of my D6 really enjoy those matches. When I was on Divines vent yesterday most of his team said they had a good time. So if fun is an argument it is a moot point.
While I understand your disgust who is it that determines what is and is not pvp? Jump teams are not the only legitimate form of pvp. MM teams are not the only form of pvp. Player Vs. Player means exactly that. Now you can argue that maybe its not the "best" option for pvp or argue that its "weak" but your best and your weak is another persons good times.
While I can sympathise with you not finding those lineups fun I also can sympathise with those that like to play them. Whether the reason is 2muchpsi/em damage, IRFiteKlubber or IWannaAtleastTie they should have the option to play those lineups.
On a side note we did discuss taking away the tie option and make those replays. The reason behind ties to begin with was to keep fight nights short and simple. For those that were ever on test I am sure you remember how long match nights could get between the lineup switchouts and the tie breaker matches. I know of several times that a team finally ended out winning not because they were better but because it took so long the other team ended out having key players need to log out.
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What a power can do and what it does are two completely different things. I have played my taunter in matches... with enhanced taunt... and don't keep targets perma stacked with taunt. It happens, but not anywhere near perma. I have a recharge intensive build too.|
Originally Posted by LuxunS
That means that barring a person's evasion skill its possible to keep them at -150% range and stuck on a single target an entire match. I don't see how this is not broken. On open maps such as graveyard, eden, etc the player is effectively perma-caged.
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And DR absolutely destroys -range powers. The only time I have ever been frustratingly hurt by -range was when I had 4 taunts on me. DR is making the power really good, not broken.
Your map examples are arguably the easiest maps to avoid taunt. You know it has a leash right? In the time it takes my taunt to go off, you could already be out of range.
The "it's not fun" argument is invalid because a lot of things aren't fun, even if they are perfectly balanced. Fun is subjective. One could think 4 storms making you unable to hit anything and devouring your range would equate to "not being able to do anything and not fun." That doesn't make me think storms are OP. I will give you that the way Taunt LoS factors in or the fact that it doesn't suppress could imply the power is over-powered, but I wouldn't say it was "broken."
Looks like Dex put it to vote, Captains submit your votes. The debate is pointless.
Also, JUMP TEAMS ONLY and lol at Barrier for thinking double-blind is a bad idea because he is in support of counter-picking.
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no
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Originally Posted by perilX
What a power can do and what it does are two completely different things. I have played my taunter in matches... with enhanced taunt... and don't keep targets perma stacked with taunt. It happens, but not anywhere near perma. I have a recharge intensive build too.
And DR absolutely destroys -range powers. The only time I have ever been frustratingly hurt by -range was when I had 4 taunts on me. DR is making the power really good, not broken. Your map examples are arguably the easiest maps to avoid taunt. You know it has a leash right? In the time it takes my taunt to go off, you could already be out of range. The "it's not fun" argument is invalid because a lot of things aren't fun, even if they are perfectly balanced. Fun is subjective. One could think 4 storms making you unable to hit anything and devouring your range would equate to "not being able to do anything and not fun." That doesn't make me think storms are OP. I will give you that the way Taunt LoS factors in or the fact that it doesn't suppress could imply the power is over-powered, but I wouldn't say it was "broken." Looks like Dex put it to vote, Captains submit your votes. The debate is pointless. Also, JUMP TEAMS ONLY and lol at Barrier for thinking double-blind is a bad idea because he is in support of counter-picking. |
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As a D6 player, the league has already taught me everything I need to know about high-end pvp: if you can't beat it, ban it, DQ it, or ragequit.
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Originally Posted by LuxunS
Taunt lineups don't teach D6 players anything
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taunt is not.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit