D6 Taunter limitation proposal

Yes it was. Though I am not happy that was said on the boards to possibly hurt that emps feelings if they figured out it was them, but yeah.

Do we really think 4 taunters / 2 emps is going to be the norm? Yeah its been done a couple times total but there have been 50 times more matches that were way more competitive since this started.

It is the new norm for when u2bg or us play other teams. If you dont like our d8 so be it dont take it out on our d6

Again...I'm D6, and I'm not quitting PvP altogether. If the D6ers you have can't handle the Taunt Lineup, then learn better.

Why do I not want a limit on taunters? Because if the situation calls for playing for a tie, then that's a valid tactic. It's boring? yes. Is it a valid tactic? yes.

Stop making it out like we have to "Save" the D6ers we have from quitting! The whole drama the fell out with the whole DQ things already did that. But to punish those that can only bring Tanks/Brutes as a valid PvP toon is not the way to go. If that's all they can field, and they have to be played...why punish a tactic that warrants a team with a tie to get points? It's strategy.

It's like saying don't tp drone plz, cos that's not fair! Or, hey...I have insps, but limit that because it'd be boring to watch you pop greens and not get killed!

Taunt is not broken iirc. Reason why stalkers were limited was due to crazy shrakz attackkgo! The majority said it was broken, so limit stalkers because of that, save a few like barrier and such. (I also didn't agree with limiting Stalkers btw, because Limiting things is like training wheels that people will get used to and not learn to adapt when they venture out in to "high end" pvp)

Yeah, you want to exclude D6 from D8 rules, but that's stupid. It's stupid because why have separate rules when the same basic mechanics are applied except you have 2 less to work with. So what? Learn2adapt is the basic saying isn't it?

Well Divines reasoning might have been out of like/dislike/revenge or whatever. My teams reasoning when we did it against U2bg didn't have anything to do with like/dislike etc.

Making lineups based on emotions is retarded. Its about having fun and for some teams, getting points.

Oh lord not this again.

So ruin pvp for the d6ers on the other team ok...

Not true. Spiner and Peril have procs but don't play their blasters, and no one else does either. Hoj, March, and Z each have one proc. I have 4. Let's not talk about procs though, because as Dex has said: That isn't the point.

Exactly. Dex is spot on with this. Psi/EMs don't do too much damage. At all. I find it funny how teams who say their blasters aren't experienced enough (and that they need to run brutes) try to talk about blasters doing too much damage, while every semi-competent offensive player says otherwise.

When fighting against competent support you can't even consistently drop a target with a 4 man offense based around psi/ems. Evading/Healing through psi/ems is ridiculously easy. This isn't even an argument.

All I see is people being like "I DIED AND I THINK I'M REALLY GOOD SO WHATEVER KILLED ME MUST BE OP".

Back to the actual point. Running brutes and playing for stalls/ties is a valid tactic, which is why the proposal is for d6 teams, and not d8 teams. Dex and I are suggesting that running four brutes in a d6 match isn't productive, since running four brutes doesn't help your d6 get any better at all.

It speaks volumes when a team's mentality is "Hey, d6, you are too bad to run jump lineups, so instead of helping you get better, we are going to play for ties in every match. We still have no hope of winning, but at least we don't take as many losses." What a joke.

I hate limiting ATs, I really do. Barrier is on point when he says it's relative to the fightclub mentality (See above comment about terrible players dying to psi/ems and then crying).

Regardless, until taunt gets some kind of suppression it is hideously broken. I support the notion to limit taunters to two in d6 matches.

And before anyone says anything: Yes. I single handedly scared an entire team out of the league. What are you going to do about it?

Read my above post. -Range stacks and Taunt resistance doesn't work, that seems broken to me.


Addressed this also. No teams have that many players with only taunters that they are forced to bring more then 2 per match.

Drones are OP and not allowed in D6 or D8 matches

Insps are limited to the 20 you get per match.

Again.. Taunt is broken

He has a point. Think about this from my perspective. I don't play a traditional toon so Dex/Vex are only required to play me one match per week. I happened to get drafted by a good D8 team. If teams decide to start bringing taunt/emp teams to tie our D6 because they can't match them then where does that leave me? Even with double assault taunt duration is not reduced. My character brings absolutely nothing to the match. I'll simply not show up for 2 reasons.

1. My character doesn't contribute and having to play me would put my team at a disadvantage. They could be running 2 blasters/2 stalkers as an effective lineup against a taunt team why would I make them put me in place for less damage/effectiveness.

2. Why would I want to play against a taunt/emp team. I could spend my thursday nights doing something less lame like watching a Twilight marathon with my girlfriend.

It actually isn't. Taunt res DOES work, as I have tested it, and the -Range stacking might be WAI, we don't really know.

^------- This.

Slax Im not saying that I want to sit my d6ers but the only way to beat the taunters is stalkers. So ill bring my 2 d6 emps my 2 d6 damage (blasters dom or fort) and my d6ers will get to do nothing and itll just be me and rice vs their emps or something. I dont see how thats fair to my players. I dont want it to come to this.

I dont like AT limits too, limit to those with taunt. If you wanna run 6 ss fire brutes and do some KO blow spikes or something go for it.

Please please please look at it from the perspective of a d6 player on my team or u2bg's team. Is it fair to them to be punished with not getting to pvp because they have a "good" d8 team.

Retest this please. I tried this many many times in the arena and noticed absolutely no reduction on taunt duration.

Taunt duration with no toggles on: 12 seconds
Taunt duration with TT:A: 12 seconds

TT:A = -1206.51% taunt duration.

Unless they changed something (Or were supposed to change something) Taunt is supposed to be completely unresistable, but has an accuracy check. It has always worked that way in PvP and, if I recall correctly, wasn't changed in PvP 2.0. The reason it seems broken is because its supposed to cause supression to the caster, but not the target. It worked this way in both i12 and i13 PvP. But, since we run no TS - it may appear broken because its so easy to autofollow target and keep taunt on auto cast.


Edit - also, if other teams are having problems coming up with a counter for a taunting lineup, Plz PM dahjee. Im sure even that nub could come up with a counter. SRsly people...instead of banning lineups - try to think of a way to counter it.

This

Please refer to the rules, line ups are double blind.

Base duration is 10.something secs.

We tested it tonight. Mechanically it appears to be scaling linearly where the base percentage is 100% and the enhancement % is added on top of that. Taunt res is being subtracted from the total value, not multiplied against it. DR seems to make the floor pretty solid where taunt res won't make it noticeably lower than 100%.

Either it is scaling linearly or taunt res is only working against the enhanced portion. Both scenarios return the same outcome.

Agreed.

Not sure which was more funny, Slax thinking his was who I was referring to or you trumping his with Well's...either of which came quite a ways after I nightly cleared out SC with mine. Of course, no insult either of you two could retaliate with could hurt more then the fact that Elf Stalker on Freedom named his blaster with the same name as my old tanker lols.

that's the problem.
taunt is not.

Either way that statement says "Taunt res is broken". If someone has no taunt duration enhancements in the power against someone with assault/double assault its going to last the full duration. At minimum its going to last the full base duration regardless of the person's resistance or the taunter's slotting. Taunt has a base 10 second duration and recharge. Even unenhanced for duration, its easy to slot recharge to get the power below 5 seconds. That means that barring a person's evasion skill its possible to keep them at -150% range and stuck on a single target an entire match. I don't see how this is not broken. On open maps such as graveyard, eden, etc the player is effectively perma-caged.

I provided several points for why taunt teams are not good for the league and reasoning for why it should be limited, but I haven't seen any real legitimate reasons to allow such things.

- ATs shouldn't be limited and lineups shouldn't be banned.
Some broken powers have been banned. Taunt certainly falls in the broken category. How is perma -150% range and locked on a target less powerful then Corruptor LR? Besides no one is saying ban taunt, just limit the number of taunters per match to at least make things competitive.

- Don't QQ about lineups, if you can't counter them stop being a noob.
Really? There are obvious counters to the taunt lineup, one being stalkers which was demonstrated in thursdays matches. The points have already been made. Taunt lineups don't teach D6 players anything, they're not fun to play, and they don't encourage good pvp. Spending 10 minutes running around at -150% range while someone has me on auto follow and hits space bar is a waste of time. I could go to RWZ, target a pylon and hit 1,2,3 keys for 10 minutes and at least i'd be able to say I accomplished something.

I find it amazing that the people most against banning taunt teams are accusing people of not knowing how to run a counter. They're the ones hiding behind broken powers and a really weak lineup.

Remember D8 players, you get to play D8 matches and potentially help your weaker players in D6 matches. I'm only guaranteed to play 1 round a week. Playing against taunt teams IS NOT PVP. Its a stalling tactic.

I'm disgusted that things like this are allowed for D6 matches. By not limiting things like this the pvp community is encouraging fiteclub garbage. The i13 changes were 2 steps back, arena options to turn them off was one step forward. Allowing fiteclub lineups in the arena is a step back.

Hell if -Divine had lineups like these from the start, Eagle would still be leading that team.