Discussion: Live Patch Notes - 4/7/10
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-04-07 09:43 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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If the patch is counting non-supporting critters, its broken and should be fixed or rolled back. That's my opinion on the patch, period.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
Here's a better short-term fix. You can have this one for free:
Disallow the Force Field & Sonic Bubble from allies. |
However, having said that, these sorts of "see how easy it is" posts are pretty worthless. That would address the issue in the same sense as trying to fix a hole in the geometry by putting a sign in the game pointing at the spot that says "hole in the geometry."
For a suggestion that is free, you're charging too much.
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They probably wanted the outrage and swung for the fences on purpose. |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
"powexec_name summon aeon"
That is the first thing I would ask a redname: why was it imperative to put this patch out NOW, when it could not be properly implemented or tested, when the problem it is intended to solve has existed for a year. |
Every time they go all out, they [assume] that a few of the offending creators will get butthurt and leave. They [assume] that some of the players that thrived off the nerfed mechanic will also leave.
And be replaced, multiplied, by new non-offenders.
They probably [assume] that the only way to get their point across is wholesale slaughter (which may only be a small portion of the playerbase); anything less... having no psychological effect.
It would be interesting to find that maybe they're trying to get the champions of loopholing to make themselves public... and then going from there.
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While you don't need any of the loot items they have introduced a well founded loot system can drive a hack n' slash game* for years and to new heights of success. I think Diablo 2 would be a great example.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Nothing in this game requires farming to get. It may not drop for you within a timeframe or in a quantity that you find acceptable, but statistically, it will drop eventually.
You don't need purples. You don't even need IOs. I have several characters who get along just fine with SOs, as we did for 8 issues. The market and the invention system really are optional. |
Loot is carrot on a stick that is virtually unparalleled. CoX tried to tap into that and has done a moderately successful job of it given the restrictions of the game (you can't have visual loot nearly as much as other systems use).
It is an optional system, but they 100% want you to feel compelled, even driven, to attain it.
*CoX is a hack n' slash game, make no mistake. 99.9% of the game consists of mowing down hordes of enemies.
It's a fix, possibly not the best fix but it fixes things for the time being. Just don't fill one mission with bunch of allied NPCs. There we go.
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
Well, the Power Gamers are going to hate my post so I am almost assured of getting some negative rep for this one (I am at -20 now for simply stating my opinion). Here it goes anyways:
You want to fix AE?
Kill all the XP for it
Kill the money rewards as well
Then just for good measure, remove all drops except for inspirs and
Lastly, remove tickets or make it so you can only but inspirs with them.
If the Devs do that, people will play AE missions for the content, not the overblown rewards. I mean, come one, lvl 1 to 50 in 10 hours is just rediculous, yet I have seen it many times. I even did it with a couple toons just to prove it could be done and deleted them immediately after since they were useless to me.
Seems to me that AE was intended not for farms (though people obviously exploited it that way) but to create more content for the game. Heck, good enough reviews even means it can be added as core content which is awesome.
I personally can not understand Power Gamers. Growing the toon up seems the real fun to me, playing a toon at Lvl 50 forever is boring. But that is just my humble opinion.
Sweet, it seems I have hit a nerve. 2 more Negative Rep within 5 minutes of posting this. The Power Gamers must be pissed considering the note attached to one of those Neg Rep points as you can see here - "You get negative rep not for your opinion, but because you haven't a clue what you're talking about".
Love it. Unlike some people I am not going to disable my Reputation just because people do not like my opinions. If you don't like them, it's your problem since I am going out of my way to be respectful in my wording.
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Eh, well I think the biggest issue is that people were getting rewarded for running missions that had no challenge to them. Basically the risk/reward ratio was way off. Now this is a mighty hard thing to balance due to how AE is set up and honestly is there any really good way to figure out the proper ratio seeing as it's custom content? That's why AE is under constant patching process. People keep finding ways to unbalance the risk/reward of it. I'm sure the devs will eventually find a fair balance where people can run AE arcs and get decent awards. But as long as people attempt to exploit it they'll have to fix those exploits.
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Originally Posted by GMan3
Well, the Power Gamers are going to hate my post so I am almost assurded of getting some negative rep for this one. Here it goes anyways:
You want to fix AE? Kill all the XP for it and kill the money rewards as well, then just for good measure, remove all drops except for inspirs and lastly, remove tickets or make it so you can only but inspirs with them. If the Devs do that, people will play AE missions for the content, not the overblown rewards. I mean, come one, lvl 1 to 50 in 10 hours is just rediculous, yet I have seen it many times. Seems to me that AE was intended not for farms (though people obviously exploited it that way) but to create more content for the game. Heck, good enough reviews even means it can be added as core content which is awesome. I personally can not understand Power Gamers. Growing the toon up seems the real fun to me, playing a toon at Lvl 50 forever is boring. But that is just my humble opinion. |
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
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The devs do not agree with your definition of the word "exploit."
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Originally Posted by Captain Fabulous
STOP CALLING IT AN EXPLOIT. It's not an exploit. No one was breaking any rules. None of these allies were broken, mis-coded, malfunctioning, or in any other way not WORKING EXACTLY THE WAY THE DEVS DESIGNED THEM.
Now you may say people used this aspect of AE in ways the devs never intended. Ok, I'll give you that. But that's still not an EXPLOIT. An exploit would be if you discovered a flaw or error in the way something worked and used it to your advantage, something that clearly was not supposed to be. For example, an ally Dispersion Bubble that gave +100% def instead of +10%. THAT'S an exploit. Or if you discovered that jumping up and down 3 times with Ninja Run active and the Blackwand out gave you unlimited recovery. THAT'S an exploit. Creating an AE map using assets that are 100% working as designed is NOT AN EXPLOIT. |
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well, this "exploit" has been around for how many months/years? another week or two to tweak what is/isn't considered an ally would've been too long? after how many years?|
Originally Posted by TonyV
Count me in the camp of people who love all the drama after a nerf, who hate exploits, who are giddy that they rolled this change out, who also play AE missions mainly for the story and not the rewards, and who are generally happy with the changes and progress that the developers make.
Will this be the final action taken to resolve the exploits? Probably not, they'll likely go back and change what an "ally" is to not include hostages and such. But it's pretty brain-dead to assert, like I see a lot of people doing here, that it's better to leave an open exploit than to patch it. Duh. And contrary to all the ZOMG, DOOOOOM!-criers here, this is but a blip on the radar of the vast majority of players, if even that. Of all the things that you imagine will destroy the game (or even the AE, for that matter), this is really low on the totem pole of reality. In a nutshell, if you're going to swear off AE because it's not as farmable as it was, good riddance. I don't want you playing my arcs anyway, because I assure you that you wouldn't like them (I have to read!!?), and you'd probably just one-star them. |
then you wouldn't have the storyteller population up in arms.
is that honestly too much to expect from a matured game developer team?
Political correctness is a stench in the nose of God. Yes, your God(s) also.
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Interesting. Please explain how you know what the devs define as an "exploit". Seeing as the devs themselves won't actually tell anyone, you must have some pretty awesome mind-reading abilities!|
Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
The devs do not agree with your definition of the word "exploit."
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*rolls eyes* *wipes the brown off your nose*
We'll see....
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but, that is also subject to change... tomorrow, or even five minutes from now.
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Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
The devs do not agree with your definition of the word "exploit."
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Political correctness is a stench in the nose of God. Yes, your God(s) also.
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That, but also I'd rather see a more elegant approach to the system. One that actually considers what each pet is doing. The issue, I believe, is that pets who actually attack are taking their share of experience while pets who buff aren't. Pets who buff should get a special trigger to take an amount of experience off the top, whether you only have one of them or 20 of them. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If the patch is counting non-supporting critters, its broken and should be fixed or rolled back. That's my opinion on the patch, period.
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The current "you're limited to X number of pets" enforces a DOUBLE penalty for offensive pets, and doesn't do anything against a small number of buffing pets. In my opinion, that does nothing to stop farmers from using buffbots (in fact, I believe it encourages them to use at least one), but causes a ton of collateral damage to legitimate missionmakers.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. GG.
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Originally Posted by Flameshot
Interesting. Please explain how you know what the devs define as an "exploit". Seeing as the devs themselves won't actually tell anyone, you must have some pretty awesome mind-reading abilities!
*rolls eyes* *wipes the brown off your nose* |
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
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I agree. It's not like the devs are living people who are spending a lot of time coding, making updates, patches, upgrades, etc. Who are they to not catch everything from the get-go? *cracks whip* MOAR UPDATES! SLEEP LATER!
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Originally Posted by Ezoran
well, this "exploit" has been around for how many months/years? another week or two to tweak what is/isn't considered an ally would've been too long? after how many years?
then you wouldn't have the storyteller population up in arms. is that honestly too much to expect from a matured game developer team? |
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
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Don't be ridiculous. No one is saying they absolutely MUST catch every single issue before anything goes live. The issue isn't that these bugs, exploits, whatever exist. The issue is for how long they exist. Please try to follow the thread rather than randomly attempting to sound like you know what you're talking about.|
Originally Posted by Horusaurus
I agree. It's not like the devs are living people who are spending a lot of time coding, making updates, patches, upgrades, etc. Who are they to not catch everything from the get-go? *cracks whip* MOAR UPDATES! SLEEP LATER!
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Besides, the excuse "We didn't know you would do that with that!" has been used too many times. This isn't their first year working on this MMO or with this community. We're talking over 5 years now. One generally learns their lesson after the first few times.
We'll see....
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finally a non-winded response
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If the patch is counting non-supporting critters, its broken and should be fixed or rolled back. That's my opinion on the patch, period.
However, having said that, these sorts of "see how easy it is" posts are pretty worthless. That would address the issue in the same sense as trying to fix a hole in the geometry by putting a sign in the game pointing at the spot that says "hole in the geometry." For a suggestion that is free, you're charging too much. |
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Yep, I've never played this game before. It's big and scary. I'm glad I can talk to someone like you! You must be an expert on the situation. So please enlighten me in what it takes to code a game?
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Originally Posted by Flameshot
Don't be ridiculous. No one is saying they absolutely MUST catch every single issue before anything goes live. The issue isn't that these bugs, exploits, whatever exist. The issue is for how long they exist. Please try to follow the thread rather than randomly attempting to sound like you know what you're talking about.
Besides, the excuse "We didn't know you would do that with that!" has been used too many times. This isn't their first year working on this MMO or with this community. We're talking over 5 years now. One generally learns their lesson after the first few times. |
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
So if we have this to prevent "an army fights for you/buffs you/etc" can fighting allies stop jacking an extra cut of XP? I understand not wanting to have an AV sweep the map for you, but as it stands you can't even include someone like Thunderhead or Fusionette. A bunch of my favorite canon story arcs include fighting allies, and it depresses me that any attempt to use them in writing AE arcs makes me feel like I'm ripping off the player. Maybe AV allies would count as multiple allies for XP scaling purposes to discourage that?
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this isn't an "exploit" that suddenly appeared last week, this is an exploit that has been around for 5 issues, a couple of literal years (as opposed to dog years).|
Originally Posted by Horusaurus
I agree. It's not like the devs are living people who are spending a lot of time coding, making updates, patches, upgrades, etc. Who are they to not catch everything from the get-go? *cracks whip* MOAR UPDATES! SLEEP LATER!
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is your sarcasm actually needed? are you insinuating the dev team is so completely incompetent that they could not come up with a better fix over the course of years?
wow. what is wrong with you? seriously. i'm not down with rere forum drama.
Political correctness is a stench in the nose of God. Yes, your God(s) also.
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Instead, why don't you enlighten us on what exactly coding the game has to do with excuses and the fact that they're wearing thin? Reading comprehension for the win!
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Originally Posted by Horusaurus
Yep, I've never played this game before. It's big and scary. I'm glad I can talk to someone like you! You must be an expert on the situation. So please enlighten me in what it takes to code a game?
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We'll see....
Your numbers are way off if you think there are millions playing this game
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What does coding have to do with fixing part of a game...? Well let me lay it out like this. Part A of the game is broken/exploited/needs repairs. Well how is this bug fixed? Why coding! The coding team gets to work on putting together a patch to fix said issue. Are these patches 100% fixes or perfect? Not likely, but it's a step forward. But they are putting effort into finding a proper fix. BUUUUUUTTTT the coding team also has to look into releasing new content which people are also screaming for. So they are in the constant state of releasing/fixing. If they focus entirely on fixing then new content doesn't get release and people whine and moan about how they don't have anything new to do. If they just focus on new content the old bugs remain. Explain a bit? I hope so. Reading comprehension indeed.
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Originally Posted by Flameshot
Instead, why don't you enlighten us on what exactly coding the game has to do with excuses and the fact that they're wearing thin? Reading comprehension for the win!
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I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
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Who is the one being ridiculous here? The Devs design something with one thing in mind and immature people (Power Gamers - yep I said it) spend their time trying to find any exploit they can. It simply takes time to make further changes and "fixes" while still trying to move ahead with the game and hopefully doing that in such a way that people will not figure out a way to exploit. |
Originally Posted by Flameshot
Don't be ridiculous. No one is saying they absolutely MUST catch every single issue before anything goes live. The issue isn't that these bugs, exploits, whatever exist. The issue is for how long they exist. Please try to follow the thread rather than randomly attempting to sound like you know what you're talking about.
Besides, the excuse "We didn't know you would do that with that!" has been used too many times. This isn't their first year working on this MMO or with this community. We're talking over 5 years now. One generally learns their lesson after the first few times. |
I feel sorry for the Devs more often than the players in this. After all, there is a very finite number of them and millions of us (or maybe only thousands if you consider the ones actively looking for exploits). The Power Gamers looking for the exploits are bound to win more often than the Devs.
As for your - "This isn't their first year working on this MMO or with this community. We're talking over 5 years now. One generally learns their lesson after the first few times." Well, CoX has been out for over 5 years but AE has not and is the first ever example of player content that I know of. So give them a break people.
Wow, grabbed over 30 Negative Rep from this one post and a nice little comment - "powergamers are not immature...YOU ARE!"
Seems the Power Gamers are even more pissed than I thought they would be.
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So....you're not a "power gamer". And? Just because you don't specifically like to game this way, doesn't mean others don't. Quit acting like it's your decision how other play the game. I'm not a "power gamer" either. People have a right to play as they see fit. If the devs don't want a player to play with something specific and or don't wish the players to use something a specific way, they have the ability to stop it from happening. But to use the excuse "we didn't know!" isn't good enough anymore. There is no valid reason why any of these alleged exploits should be sitting on the live server for several months to several years.|
Originally Posted by GMan3
Who is the one being ridiculous here? The Devs design something with one thing in mind and immature people (Power Gamers - yep I said it) spend their time trying to find any exploit they can. It simply takes time to make further changes and "fixes" while still trying to move ahead with the game and hopefully doing that in such a way that people will not figure out a way to exploit.
I feel sorry for the Devs more often than the players in this. After all, there is a very finite number of them and millions of us (or maybe only thousands if you consider the ones actively looking for exploits). The Power Gamers looking for the exploits are bound to win more often than the Devs. |
I'm sure some of you are perfectly ok with paying to play a game where at any given moment anything at all (including creating a character) can be taken away with the excuse "You're doing it wrong!". I on the other hand, am not. Then to top it all off, not only is the fix heavy-handed, but it doesn't even work like it's suppose to! How long before the fix gets "fixed"? If you're naive enough to believe that this is acceptable business practice, I have some land I'm looking to sell. Un....believable.
We'll see....
This
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was in response to this|
Originally Posted by PracticallyGod
Your numbers are way off if you think there are millions playing this game
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Originally Posted by GMan3
I feel sorry for the Devs more often than the players in this. After all, there is a very finite number of them and millions of us (or maybe only thousands if you consider the ones actively looking for exploits). The Power Gamers looking for the exploits are bound to win more often than the Devs.
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