Doing the Sums


BBQ_Pork

 

Posted

So... GR is going to launch pretty soon and that'll take care of pretty well 2 issues in one hit.

There's a team of some 80 devs working on it right now and they've been nose to proverbial for well over a year now.

It's gonna give us 20 levels in 4 zones and 2 powersets - there's some great stuff in it- more than I've mentioned here.

But I got to thinking....

80 devs to bring that to us.

It was only when that recruitment drive came along that the team expanded. Before then the entire team has been consistently around 15 people since I started playing - exactly 4 years ago.

While we had 15 devs, we got at least 2 shiny issues every year - we got 2 zones with big makeovers, and we got an entirely brand new zone in Cimerora. We also got RV (just as I joined)

We have been given plenty of new power sets, and I'll remind you that dual blades and willpower came at the same time. We got Psy blast and MM, plus a whole bunch of proliferation - and some of the best content in the game in terms of TFs and SFs... ITF, LGTF, KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHN (it's gotta be typed like that) and Barracuda, not to mention LRSF and STF. Inventions... a whole bunch of stuff delivered over three years by 15 people.

Seems to me that 80 odd devs should have been able to blitz GR with their eyes closed.

But then we've only got one issue before I20. Issue Twenty!

I cannot imagine for one moment that'll be just a run of the mill (are there ever any such? ) Issue... so I17 might be the big paid expansion we've all been waiting way too long for but there'll be another even bigger one just around the corner.

Shall we start speculating about what'll be in it?



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

My plasma rifle powerset? *crosses fingers*


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
Shall we start speculating about what'll be in it?
Moon Zone.
Egyptian or Jurassic zone.

(From the poll taken pre-DB):
Force Fields as a Defensive Set.
Whatever they meant by "Electric Hammer" Melee set.


Also:
Rikti EAT

Plasma Rifle or similar.

Wand/TechStaff Blast set of some kind.

Polearm of some kind melee set.



Realistic guesses would include:
New emotes, costume pieces, a few tweaks to powers (with a freespec).
Minor QoL improvements and UI upgrades.
And of course, the new issue will be following by whining, nerdrage and the gnashing of forumite's teeth.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
Seems to me that 80 odd devs should have been able to blitz GR with their eyes closed.
Just to nitpick;

- Completely new content
- Completely new mobs, multiple of
- Completely new costume pieces
- Completely new tilesets and maps made from them
- Completely new zones
- Completely new power sets, including new enemy powers

Perhaps more importantly;

- Completely new graphics system (Ultra Mode)
- Completely new coding and game mechanics (Side switching, and any unannounced stuff they have yet to spring on us)

Really, that doesn't seem like a SMALL ammount of work. The past issues were a zone, maybe two. Tops. They had all the old tilesets, maybe one or two enemy groups. But nothing on this scale. I think people are really belittling just how much work has and is still going into GR here.

/nitpick


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

80 devs? Where did you get that number?


Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster


"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Just to nitpick;

- Completely new content
- Completely new mobs, multiple of
- Completely new costume pieces
- Completely new tilesets and maps made from them
- Completely new zones
- Completely new power sets, including new enemy powers

Perhaps more importantly;

- Completely new graphics system (Ultra Mode)
- Completely new coding and game mechanics (Side switching, and any unannounced stuff they have yet to spring on us)

Really, that doesn't seem like a SMALL ammount of work. The past issues were a zone, maybe two. Tops. They had all the old tilesets, maybe one or two enemy groups. But nothing on this scale. I think people are really belittling just how much work has and is still going into GR here.

/nitpick
Not at all.

I'm not belittling it at all. But I'm suggesting that with a very big Issue number around the corner the development team have been moving that forward - and I'm suggesting that it'll be a lot bigger than GR.

I'd go so far as to speculate that GR and the things you've mentioned above provide a great deal of the ground work... that's the foundation for the next big leap perhaps.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
But then we've only got one issue before I20. Issue Twenty!

I cannot imagine for one moment that'll be just a run of the mill (are there ever any such? ) Issue... so I17 might be the big paid expansion we've all been waiting way too long for but there'll be another even bigger one just around the corner.
I18 is GR, not I17


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I18 is GR, not I17
Exactly.

And after I18, come I19 and then Issue 20



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
Not at all.

I'm not belittling it at all. But I'm suggesting that with a very big Issue number around the corner the development team have been moving that forward - and I'm suggesting that it'll be a lot bigger than GR.

I'd go so far as to speculate that GR and the things you've mentioned above provide a great deal of the ground work... that's the foundation for the next big leap perhaps.
I wouldn't wager that a free content release will ever be more expansive than a paid content release.


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
While we had 15 devs, we got at least 2 shiny issues every year - we got 2 zones with big makeovers, and we got an entirely brand new zone in Cimerora. We also got RV (just as I joined)...
Um... the new hires started coming in almost immediately after NCSoft purchased the CoH IP from Cryptic. That was late '07 (I11, with Ouroboros, came out 3 weeks after the IP shift, and the studio move finished less than a month after that)

Also, an increase in the number of developers does not cause a linear increase in development speed.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg View Post
Issue 10 was nothing special.

If anything it's every 6th issue that is "special".

I6: CoV.

I12: Midnighters.

I18: Going Rogue.

Moving hair in I24 then


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

For one all of the Devs are not working on one single Issue or GR. There is a team working on GR, and a separate team working on I17, just as there was on I16.

Now, some of them may be working on aspects of both the Issues and GR, but they are not all confined to one issue of the game.

And they were growing the team just shortly after NCSoft acquired the franchise from Cryptic. Matter of fact, during HeroCon '08 They had announced that they were working on something that was going to knock out socks off, which now is obviously GR.

With the info they've released on what's in GR and beyond, I certain that with the team working on I17, and probably a large team on GR, it's not stretch that there is a team working on I19 already (and I18 if there will be one separate form from GR.)

Also, Going Rouge is the paid expansion (not I17.)


 

Posted

Quote:
FredrikSvanberg shows the other aught:

Issue 10 was nothing special.

If anything it's every 6th issue that is "special".

I6: CoV.

I12: Midnighters.

I18: Going Rogue.
I'd have to agree that a zero being in the issue number isn't cause for undue expectations.


Dec out.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg View Post
Issue 10 was nothing special.

If anything it's every 6th issue that is "special".

I6: CoV.

I12: Midnighters.

I18: Going Rogue.
I had to check because you do make a good point but I'd say that



was actually pretty special... especially given the small team.

That said, I24 would give the opportunity for a new paid expansion about 2 years from GR.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant View Post
80 devs? Where did you get that number?
Hm.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork View Post
Moon Zone.
Egyptian or Jurassic zone.
You need to think bigger.

I'm expecting Egyptian dinosaurs on the moon complete with zombie space nazi riders and frikkin' laser beams.


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my toons
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave View Post
You need to think bigger.

I'm expecting Egyptian dinosaurs on the moon complete with zombie space nazi riders and frikkin' laser beams.

what? No lesbian cat-girl space clowns?



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
what? No lesbian cat-girl space clowns?
Take out the clowns since Positron is scared of them and we'll have them in Issue 69.


In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
Hm.
Counting community reps/mods and QA testers listed on the Paragonwiki page, we're somewhere in the 70s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
what? No lesbian cat-girl space clowns?
I can haz Space Pirate Amazon Ninja Catgirls?


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

I might be missing something, but was was so incredibly wonderful about I12? Yeah, Cimerora's cool, and yeah, the ITF is great fun/lewt/what have you, and yeah, the Midnight Club's a neat zone. VEATs are thoroughly awesome, and I'm aware that they threw in some new tech.

So, good issue, yes, but equal to the amount of stuff added from a paid issue? I'm not so sure.

Preemptive counter-argument: Comparing an issue to expansion is a poor comparison, true, but the metric of 'great issues come every six' only works if I6 is, in fact, treated as part of the expansion. Why? 'Cause all I6 added on its own ED and PvP zones. And some number tweaking, but the thrust of my point is ED was horrible, and nobody who's anybody PvP's, so I6 clearly needs all the great things CoV added to fall into line.

Note on the preemptive counter-argument: The comments about ED and PvP are completely facetious. I have nothing but respect for dedicated PvPers, and am perfectly aware that ED laid the groundworks for some important upgrades we received later. Like inventions.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
Counting community reps/mods and QA testers listed on the Paragonwiki page, we're somewhere in the 70s.
So that isn't eighty people who are actively developing the game, then.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
So that isn't eighty people who are actively developing the game, then.
Exactly. 80 actual developers would be a gigantic game-changer (no pun intended). If we're talking 80 (or 70, in reality) employees, well, that doesn't really give us an idea of how much developing firepower we have.

I'm going to say that we have under 30 Real Live™ Devs in Paragon Studios right now. That's still twice what we had during the lean times, but it ain't 80!

EDIT: Just counted, and it looks closer to 40, which is still impressive, but half of the OP's estimate.


Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster


"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant View Post
Exactly. 80 actual developers would be a gigantic game-changer (no pun intended). If we're talking 80 (or 70, in reality) employees, well, that doesn't really give us an idea of how much developing firepower we have.

I'm going to say that we have under 30 Real Live™ Devs in Paragon Studios right now. That's still twice what we had during the lean times, but it ain't 80!

EDIT: Just counted, and it looks closer to 40, which is still impressive, but half of the OP's estimate.

I was working from memory I admit but I seem to recall that number being announced on the EU forums not long before their demise.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk