Khedians suck, all that knockback is not team friendly
By
AlienMafia,
Posted on: 2010-03-06 13:08 in Kheldians
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Well, note that I'd prefer KB be like a damage proc - if a foes is KBd, they'd receive more damage (from slamming into objects, falling...). So, that'd go someway to alleviating the aggravation of chasing them down.|
Originally Posted by Staccato
I dunno, I think I would get annoyed rather quickly if every attack in the game had the ability to cause Knockback. It's a pain to have to continuously chase down baddies on a melee character because they're being knocked back constantly.
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But it's the fact you'd be aggravated that's the showstopper. We've grown used to playing the game where herding and bunching is a part of so much strategey, so a change now would gripe people to no end. If the KB-way was the way from the beginning we'd probably love it. It's more visual, visceral, and thematic. I can't imagine reading a Hulk or Superman comic (or seeing a movie) and not see super combatants slammed into skyscrapers - it's just wrong
Oh well, on to the next dead horse...
Funny, I've never had a problem or complaint regarding KB while teaming on my PB. Methinks it just might be operator error. Another reason opening this AT up to folks at level 20 is a bad idea.
"They've got us surrounded again, the poor bastards." - General Creighton W. Abrams
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Maybe. I like the ragdoll physics and all, I just hate having to run after things to continue beating on them.
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Originally Posted by Socorro
Well, note that I'd prefer KB be like a damage proc - if a foes is KBd, they'd receive more damage (from slamming into objects, falling...). So, that'd go someway to alleviating the aggravation of chasing them down.
But it's the fact you'd be aggravated that's the showstopper. We've grown used to playing the game where herding and bunching is a part of so much strategey, so a change now would gripe people to no end. If the KB-way was the way from the beginning we'd probably love it. It's more visual, visceral, and thematic. I can't imagine reading a Hulk or Superman comic (or seeing a movie) and not see super combatants slammed into skyscrapers - it's just wrong Oh well, on to the next dead horse... |
To this 4/4 beat, I'm in time with you. To this 4/4 beat, I would die for you. Your lovesick melody is going to get the best of me tonight, but you won't get to me 'cause I won't sing.
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I also find it's a pain when I'm playing my bubbler and I've got to knock a boss back into the mob because a scrapper is off beating up on a lowly minion while the squishies are getting mauled by stray bosses.
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Originally Posted by Staccato
I dunno, I think I would get annoyed rather quickly if every attack in the game had the ability to cause Knockback. It's a pain to have to continuously chase down baddies on a melee character because they're being knocked back constantly.
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KB can be a great tool-- often on teams with no tanks or debuffers they can survive quite well by it.
i agree in the context you provided that it must have been a problem, but not all teams focus on gather and carpet bomb tactics.
KB can be great mitigation.On full teams of blaster/scrapper combos with single target big hitters KB can be great as the only mitigation , and these can roll just as fast as any other team
PBAoE KB = Evil, wrong, Castle should hold his head in abject shame for allowing it to continue to exist outside of final nukes.
Solar Flare should have never made it out of beta with KB. Turn that power into KD and there would be rejoicing in the streets. Also, while not required, taking the KB off the melee attacks would be a good step. After those two steps, I'd be willing to deal. Until then, I'll just slowly crawl my PB to 50 because I hate playing her because of all the KB.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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/Signed|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
Here is where I must interject.
I think the reason players get up in arms over knockback, is that it lowers the XP/minute in their eyes and anything that does that is to be shunned when holding that viewpoint. In my opinion, min/maxing is fun. Min/maxing every encounter, every minute, every time, is not. Frankly, in my opinion, getting upset over knockback rather than trying to see how many interesting ways you can place an enemy using the ragdoll physics, is a sure sign of a person that forgot they are playing a game, rather than trying to earn a living in a second job. My group playing all double XP weekend with knockback, laughed and had fun while earning xp. Did your KB hating team laugh as much? KB Rules! |
I've played on teams with and without knockback. I always chase everything whether it's knocked back or not. I've been on teams where a player complains about knocking a guy back 8 feet. Players that complain about ANY hint of knockback are lousy players. I've said this before many times.
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This is pretty much how I feel. The KB instead of KD on solar flare does not give the power any additional mitigation value over foot stomp - in fact, it does the opposite by scattering enemies outside of other players' area of effect powers (including melee auras like invincibility, locational debuffs, toggle debuffs, and so on). The power being KB makes it situational when it could be a bread and butter AOE damage power that helps PBs close the performance gap vis-a-vis warshades and their non-KBing AOEing long-duration pets. If flare had no secondary effect at all, I'd use it much more often, because it does quite good damage and without KB, using it wouldn't be counterproductive to the team's effort.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
PBAoE KB = Evil, wrong, Castle should hold his head in abject shame for allowing it to continue to exist outside of final nukes.
Solar Flare should have never made it out of beta with KB. Turn that power into KD and there would be rejoicing in the streets. Also, while not required, taking the KB off the melee attacks would be a good step. After those two steps, I'd be willing to deal. Until then, I'll just slowly crawl my PB to 50 because I hate playing her because of all the KB. |
The KB on radiant strike is just annoying. KD would provide equal mitigation, and I wouldn't have to go chasing after my own damn target to keep punching it until it stops standing up. It's not rocket science, and it's the reason almost all knockback in melee powers was changed to knockdown in the first place. But just because it's not counterproductive, doesn't mean it should stay as is.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
I would be perfectly fine with just changing the KB in Solar Flare to Knockdown. Everything about the knockback is counterproductive and I'm sure 99% of the community wouldn't have an issue with changing the KB in that power. (Also if/when power customization comes to the Kheldian, being able to punch the ground instead of stomp like in Super Strength would be over 9000 times better.)
Radiant Strike, however, doesn't HAVE to be changed. I find some use with it by knocking a straggling single enemy BACK into the group. Plus it's always fun to use it to knock and enemy off a high ledge and pull a Fatality. :P
Most other powers in the PB arsenal are mitigatable I would think. I don't use Luminous Detonation (Mostly because of the KB...) so I can't really judge on that power.
I was on one team where myself, another PB, and the tank alternated on the mobs. Still not really sure what the other 5 did on the team because usually there was not anything left standing, KB or not, when we struck.
I have also used KB to knock foes that were hit by others with KB back to the Tank. Volley ball but with villains. Lots o' fun.
I was glad to see in the Virtue TF channel, a few times, Khelds especially welcome. Why? Apparently the day before the person had teamed with a bunch of Khelds and was impressed with the damage being dealt.
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I find it silly the Dwarf version is KD...|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
PBAoE KB = Evil, wrong, Castle should hold his head in abject shame for allowing it to continue to exist outside of final nukes.
Solar Flare should have never made it out of beta with KB. Turn that power into KD and there would be rejoicing in the streets. Also, while not required, taking the KB off the melee attacks would be a good step. After those two steps, I'd be willing to deal. Until then, I'll just slowly crawl my PB to 50 because I hate playing her because of all the KB. |
all KB being evil aside...dude, are you seriously telling me that two Archery Blasters couldn't aim a 90 ft range, 25ft wide TAoE nuke to compensate for enemies being a little scattered?
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PB knockback is rather strong, so they become more than "a little scattered".|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
I find it silly the Dwarf version is KD...
all KB being evil aside...dude, are you seriously telling me that two Archery Blasters couldn't aim a 90 ft range, 25ft wide TAoE nuke to compensate for enemies being a little scattered? |
Maybe they did compensate, but then the PB knocks most of the spawn away anyway before the long animation (4s) finishes? The power doesn't "lock on" like Fireball does, that is, if you activate Fireball before the enemies are scattered, you'll still hit them. RoA instead summons a pseudopet that does three seperate PBAoE ticks, then dies. If the enemies have run (or knocked) away, too bad.
This has happened to me many times when using Lightning Rod, just as the animation (2.67s) is about to finish, super KB out of nowhere, boom. Maybe two minions fall over (those which didn't get knocked back), but it feels like a huge waste.
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Making Solar Flare KD instead would make me actually want to play my PB again.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
PBAoE KB = Evil, wrong, Castle should hold his head in abject shame for allowing it to continue to exist outside of final nukes.
Solar Flare should have never made it out of beta with KB. Turn that power into KD and there would be rejoicing in the streets. Also, while not required, taking the KB off the melee attacks would be a good step. After those two steps, I'd be willing to deal. Until then, I'll just slowly crawl my PB to 50 because I hate playing her because of all the KB. |
Get a Controller on a team so they can hold the enemy in place you don't have to worry about Knock back.
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Over-generalising doesn't bode well.
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Originally Posted by Talionis
I had a level 49 Peacebringer that didn't know that KB was knockback and didn't know that it was doing kb.
We had two Archery Blasters on the team trying to use Rain of Arrows and the nimrod kept blasting and breaking them up. I eventually kicked her. But oh man its frusterating. We had another one later that was better, but still lots of knockback equals not keeping mobs bunched. |
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I don't think you should need an specific AT in order to not disrupt the team while using your PBaoe damage power, but that's just me =/.. Plus the -KB effect doesn't last very long unless the controller spams their immob, and even then, half the controllers sets don't even have -kb powers.|
Originally Posted by GreenFIame
Get a Controller on a team so they can hold the enemy in place you don't have to worry about Knock back.
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I can live with the other powers, it's just solar flare that is bad, but it's REALLY bad.
PB dream buff
- +5-10 % damage to skills
- Remove KB'a and add KD'a to these skills.
(Knock Down is Knock Back of less than magnitude of 0.75, If I figured it right)
- Combine human form shield skills to one big resistance skill.
- Add skill that improves mez protection / resistances to status protections/resistances.
- Remove hitpoints drain from light form.
- Add some more orbs to Photon seeker skill in a way that you will send new energy orbs continously to targets during whole duration of this skill.
- Add Blazing aura styled AEO dot skill into dwarf form.
- Add skill that provides debuff.
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I would die of happiness if these changes were actually implemented. @_@
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Originally Posted by Zorn
PB dream buff
- +5-10 % damage to skills - Remove KB'a and add KD'a to these skills. (Knock Down is Knock Back of less than magnitude of 0.75, If I figured it right) - Combine human form shield skills to one big resistance skill. - Add skill that improves mez protection / resistances to status protections/resistances. - Remove hitpoints drain from light form. - Add some more orbs to Photon seeker skill in a way that you will send new energy orbs continously to targets during whole duration of this skill. - Add Blazing aura styled AEO dot skill into dwarf form. - Add skill that provides debuff. |
To this 4/4 beat, I'm in time with you. To this 4/4 beat, I would die for you. Your lovesick melody is going to get the best of me tonight, but you won't get to me 'cause I won't sing.
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I could only see the top two items being implemented, most of the others are so definitely never going to happen even if they were actively working on PBs right at this moment (especially the mez res/protection one)|
Originally Posted by Staccato
I would die of happiness if these changes were actually implemented. @_@
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But I would love to be able to use Orbiting Death while in WS dwarf form
PS: add a taunt when in dwarf form and also to Dwarf Mire would be nice to aggro as well, don't know why PB dwarf's AoE has taunt but not dwarf Mire
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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Well yeah that's why they're called dream buffs. :P
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Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
I could only see the top two items being implemented, most of the others are so definitely never going to happen even if they were actively working on PBs right at this moment
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To this 4/4 beat, I'm in time with you. To this 4/4 beat, I would die for you. Your lovesick melody is going to get the best of me tonight, but you won't get to me 'cause I won't sing.
Aside from the obligatory KB rants, my advice for Peacebringers is to attack directly from above the mobs. Knockback quickly becomes Knockdown.
Other than that, I'm not sure you've said whether you told her to stop. Yeah, you said you don't wanna teach another player how to play their toon (kinda runs contrary to this community's reputation of being helpful, but hey, to each their own), but telling someone to wait before attacking or attacking from above or ANYTHING takes seconds and is a far cry from teaching someone how to play.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you really didn't say anything and then just kicked her, it's in part also failure on our part as a leader.