Quote:
Oh I know how effective they are. I just don't like how bleeding massive and noisy they are. One of the most common reasons people give for not letting MMs on a team is that they can be a nightmare in tight maps and Bots are probably the worst offenders since they're both big and ranged (so they'll just stand in one spot firing). Can be a pain to get past.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If you hadn't Gone to the Americas, I coulda showed you what a good Bot MM on Union is like
 But its the same way people moan about Kheldians (I admit, I was indifferent to them until recently) until you realise just how destructive they can be. As is any AT played well, really. |
Removing the collision detection between all pets and players would be a great move IMO.
Quote:
In that case I'd volunteer to either sit at the back and provide mass firepower, or charge in first and soak up all that lovely, 5% to hit alpha. But yeah, I realise that badly run MMs can be a nightmare.
|
Originally Posted by Carnifax
Oh I know how effective they are. I just don't like how bleeding massive and noisy they are. One of the most common reasons people give for not letting MMs on a team is that they can be a nightmare in tight maps and Bots are probably the worst offenders since they're both big and ranged (so they'll just stand in one spot firing). Can be a pain to get past.
Removing the collision detection between all pets and players would be a great move IMO. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
We should meet IC one day Alpha...
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
Quote:
/e knuckles|
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
We should meet IC one day Alpha...
|
In the words of a wise man;
"Let's go freaking death hill!"
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
If you're that guy that tried to tank Infernal on a Stalker while my Mercs/Pain tended to her pets, you got what you deserved.
|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
On top of the pets taking up space, there's also a mentality of many Masterminds that buffs are for pets only. Sometimes when I add a Mastermind to a team what I see is teammates getting slaughtered while the MM is busily healing his zombies. It's one thing to concentrate on your pets while the team is doing ok, but really poor style when the team is about to wipe. I suspect a lot of Masterminds don't even look at the team window to see how things are going, based on the number of times I've been killed.
That said, not everything about Masterminds is bad. Having those extra bodies around as potential aggro targets does make my squishies feel safer. |
Depends, if you don't know how to micro manage your pets/buffs, while keeping situational awareness of your teammates and terrain to use it to your advantage. Then yes, you'll likely be hated.
Quote:
I should look you up. It's so rare I find people willing to do Mayhems the right way. |
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
We have left Talos and now Brickstown with not a car, mailbox, phonebooth or even a cardbvoard box left standing. Completed all the sides and with, usually about 30 minutes left, we recluctantly head to the bank cause there is nothingh left to blow up.
|
For me, my VG mates love teaming with my Masterminds. I'm not sure if I'm just a good Mastermind, or a good build-designer, though. I certainly don't micro-manage my pets like is so often suggested, and both of my 50 Masterminds are engines of destruction with ridiculous defences and are more than capable of soloing 8-person content by themselves.
My Bots/Traps does spend time healing teammates with Aid Other, though, but that's mostly because she and her Bots are all soft-capped, and thus I really have nothing else to do anyway.
(The Thugs/Dark doesn't do much healing, because of the pitiful radius on her Twilight Grasp. She concentrates on debuffing and taunting, instead.)
One thing to keep in mind that a MM's pets are extensions of his own hitpoint total. As they die, the MM effectively 'takes damage'. So just like any other character, there is a balance to be maintained between helping yourself(pets) and helping your teammates. Focusing entirely on either one or the other is just as likely to lead to unnecessary team wipes.
I will not rest until we have in-game throwable pies!
Are we hated? who cares, I can force my pets to bow before me
Quote:
As an addition to this excellent point, I would also state that the pets are not only an extention of the MMs hit points, but are an extension (and in many cases >all<) of the MMs offence.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Wacky
One thing to keep in mind that a MM's pets are extensions of his own hitpoint total. As they die, the MM effectively 'takes damage'.
|
If you can't keep your pets in the fight, helping the team (by doing damage and absorbing aggro), then you might as well play a Corruptor for the better buff numbers and hit points.
Masterminds are not your baby-sitters. It's the way redside is designed. Everyone is supposed to contribute to the offence while looking after themselves first. Then, if they have some attention/time/end to spare, they can help their teammates out. Even Corruptors aren't supposed to be there just to buff.
"And texting? 'How R U?' Wow! English is just getting its [censored] kicked. In two generations, that's going to be on chalkboards. And do you know what you get from that? You don't get Ernest Hemingway."
- Henry Rollins
Quote:
I have played Masterminds since CoV release, and only **/dark at that, so there are mostly debuffs flying everywhere, not buffs. However, You players need to understand that I, and other experienced Masterminds, can simply control our minions faster, and better, than a regular team can cooperate any day. I have approximately 12 keybinds I use to achieve this, and so when it comes to keeping my killing speed up by keeping my pets alive, versus keeping "you" alive, I will choose my pets any day over a team mate. Besides, if you die, then I have one more reason to use my crazy autohit rez power.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
On top of the pets taking up space, there's also a mentality of many Masterminds that buffs are for pets only. Sometimes when I add a Mastermind to a team what I see is teammates getting slaughtered while the MM is busily healing his zombies. It's one thing to concentrate on your pets while the team is doing ok, but really poor style when the team is about to wipe. I suspect a lot of Masterminds don't even look at the team window to see how things are going, based on the number of times I've been killed.
|
I have been on teams where if I took the time to keep everyone fully healed, instead of focusing upon my pets, we would have wiped. Carrying teams through missions, only to have them complain..... makes me green and very angry.
Granted, there is nothing worse than teaming with a Mastermind who doesn't know what the hell they are doing, and I have kicked Masterminds who n00bed up a few times too often, but put the blame where it is deserved: n00bies who cannot make judgement calls quickly, cannot control their pets, and don't contribute effectively to the damage output.
Don't overgeneralize.
I find that if I play my MM like I'd play a Defender on Heroes side, I get invited back quite a lot. Nobody seems to care one way or another what my henchmen are doing or not doing, so long as I keep them alive. I usually use them to pull aggro off of teammates who are in trouble, more than anything else. (Otherwise they run free.)
When I'm on a team, I think of the other players as additional pets.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
When I'm on a team, I think of the other players as additional pets.
|
I totally know what you mean.
Quote:
Really? How strange. For me they're just meat shields that should be keeping the baddies away from my precious robots. |
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
When I'm on a team, I think of the other players as additional pets.
|
Then again, my favorite MM secondary is Traps, which isn't really too team friendly, except for the FFG.
Traps is plenty team friendly, so long as your team understands the rule "We're fighting HERE, make it so."
Might not use most of the powers in caverns, but for end-boss fights it's divine.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Traps is plenty team friendly, so long as your team understands the rule "We're fighting HERE, make it so."
Might not use most of the powers in caverns, but for end-boss fights it's divine. |
This is more or less accurt On teams with /traps you have to use acid and posion and caltops are great in caves.
Also any one know if a Mercks/Traps MM can do the Nem TV farm solo at 0 (x8)?
That said most ITFs and LGTF's and LRSF's and Baracuda TF's and... Well just about ANY PUG TF/SF on an MM doesn't go well unless you have stealth.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Quote:
Hey sounds like fun :-D I've been playing for over 4 years and love Mayhem and Safeguards... Too many people these days just want to run in do the BANK, hoping for an AV, and then leave. There is a LOT of XP scattered around out there not to mention the salvage and recipe drops. Side missions are a lot of fun and in a mayhem I get to just go crazy and blow stuff up.. who doesn't like doing that? LOL|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I should look you up. It's so rare I find people willing to do Mayhems the right way.
For me, my VG mates love teaming with my Masterminds. I'm not sure if I'm just a good Mastermind, or a good build-designer, though. I certainly don't micro-manage my pets like is so often suggested, and both of my 50 Masterminds are engines of destruction with ridiculous defences and are more than capable of soloing 8-person content by themselves. My Bots/Traps does spend time healing teammates with Aid Other, though, but that's mostly because she and her Bots are all soft-capped, and thus I really have nothing else to do anyway. (The Thugs/Dark doesn't do much healing, because of the pitiful radius on her Twilight Grasp. She concentrates on debuffing and taunting, instead.) |
We even have a system down on the Snatch and Grab side... I sit at the door and knock off anything that enters as she runs around clicking safes and the vault. Throw down a tar patch to slow them all down and just keep balsting away.. works well with arson side missions too.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
On my old PC, I ended up hating MM's b/c they would make my graphics card cry out in tormented bloody anguish.
Quote:
Actually even playing normally Purples start to drop around level 47.. when you can start enhancing wioth 50 level Sos.... I got VERY lucky with a 47 level Defender on an ITF and got 2 of them.. by the end of that day she had more than 100 million in prestige and that was back BEFORE the market prices really went crazy.
|
Originally Posted by Fusion_7
Read my other post in "Market & Inventions" section titled "My First Rare Purple". I am currently running mish'es at -1x8 based on what paragonwiki says and what others have posted, it is more random but the larger the mobs the greater the chance of getting rare purple drops. So far, I ran approx 10 mish'es at full mobs (x8) and got a ton of rare salvages but have yet to get a rare purple.
|
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
Darn you know I have posted twice in this thread and have yet to answer the OPs question..YES OF COURSE WE ARE HATED. We do awesome damage and don't need a team.. WE ARE A TEAM! lol
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
Ive noticed this attitude as well though more pronounced on freedom. I havent noticed it at all on virtue.
Also my answer to that kind of attitude that you got was /ignore and I woudl put my own teams together. I run alot of TFs so I have a fairly solid group of globals that do not object to my bringing an mm. Its like how people hate energy blasters because of the KB, untill they meet one that plays it right.
As far as those who think MM's are weak, lol those are just the people who could never grasp the strengths of the AT so because they cant play them they must be weak.
I m pretty terrible on a corruptor (unless its a kin then im not too bad) but I have never said they are weak heh everyone is better at different things and there will always be someone better than you.
I will say that MM's can be a bit rough on the final fight in a RSF ( i hate aoes lol with a poison secondary ) and they are terrible for speed runners. Another reason I left freedom for virtue.
So try forming your own teams. Most people are too lazy to actually run a team so they wont object to joining yours and seeing an mm. The ones that do *shrug* good ridance I say you dont want them on your team anyway if they cannot see the value of the AT.
*readies fire extinguisher*
Quote:
Ive played on some pretty terrible cpus over the past years and I have never noticed any performance issues with an mm on the team. Even when I played on a 1.2 celeron with a nvidia 5500 i think it was. |
Originally Posted by Negate
On my old PC, I ended up hating MM's b/c they would make my graphics card cry out in tormented bloody anguish.
|
Of course I tend to find the settings that allow me to run a game well then turn them down a touch more so that when somethign unexpected comes up I dont lag. Probally why i have never had a problem with mms on the team.
*readies fire extinguisher*
Quote:
Probably so. In fact I can tell you what maps and what Powers/Archetypes are hard on your graphics card. MM's were the worse and god forbid I played on a lvl 32+ team on the archanos map...that map would kill my graphics card/memory so much that the only way i could play on team is if I hit tab and start hitting buttons...in fact I would have to hold down buttons for 1 or 2 seconds to make sure the power fired due to the vid lag.|
Originally Posted by Vicar
Ive played on some pretty terrible cpus over the past years and I have never noticed any performance issues with an mm on the team. Even when I played on a 1.2 celeron with a nvidia 5500 i think it was.
Of course I tend to find the settings that allow me to run a game well then turn them down a touch more so that when somethign unexpected comes up I dont lag. Probally why i have never had a problem with mms on the team. |
I used to have a P4 Dell Optiplex 360...and I can't rem the graphic card but the last update was in 06 LOL. You'd be surprised how many people have old comps like mine!
I remember when my comp crashed when three thug MM's summoned Gang War around about the same time...ugh. I could barely do invasions unless my graphics were to the floor and Mothership raids or the impervious TF was out of the question
. Again let em state my graphics was all the way down. Also other settings were reduced in the advanced menu.I can list which MM's lag you the most.
1.Robots-The lasers, rockets and burn patches owns and old card.
2.Thugs-The explosions and burn patches are killer and let's not even discuss Gang War!
3.Mercs-They are not as bad but the flashbang grendade? Can do a number on your card...but since it's on such a long recharge it isn't that bad.
4.Necro-Not to bad at all even the Lich, Necro doesn't slow you down to much.
5.Ninjas- The only issue is Rain of fire but other than that...not an issue.
Personaly i love having MM on a team they have great buffs and crazy dps, the only time i would ever get annoyed is if the mm is agroing more then my brute can handle, and that is rare. but from the sounds of the OP they where trying to farm there little heads off and you made it a tiny bit harder for them to do so.
Really wish the devs would remove the collistion detection between MM pets and teammates though, getting stuck / barged by them does suck.
But its the same way people moan about Kheldians (I admit, I was indifferent to them until recently) until you realise just how destructive they can be. As is any AT played well, really.