Impossible To Kill?
By
Anilo,
Posted on: 2010-02-17 09:01 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Having a DM/Regen (and being very happy with it, I should note), I suggest you look instead at either a DM/SR or, if cost is no barrior, a DM/Shield.
Any time you take a character with no major Defense Debuff Resistance (DDR) and layer a lot of defense on them, you do two things.
- You make them very hard to kill against most things.
- You experience them dying very abruptly against things that strip their defense off of them.
- Foes who can't debuff your defense now have a harder time killing you, so you can survive more of them, and/or at higher levels. You drive up your difficulty to account for it.
- You could not survive this increased number/level of foes without your new, shiny +defense.
- You meet foes who strip off your new, shiny +Def (and maybe then some), and now you are facing a number/level of foes you cannot survive.
SR and heavily IO'd Shields can meet the above AV/GM criteria, and can also get enough DDR to shrug off most things that try to strip them of their defense. Edit: The Shielders also need some Hami-Os to achieve the latter.
Therefore I think my "impossible to kill" non-tanker would be a DM/SR or DM/SD Scrapper or Brute (the Brute would obviously be harder to kill than the Scrapper) with Tough and Weave.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
It sort of depends on what you want to be unkillable against. Some sets, like Willpower, Dark Armor, and Invulnerability, can have different results depending on how much cannon fodder is around. Things that will be practically invincible in many circumstances would be not so much while, say, facing down a fully-buffed STF Recluse alone, while some things that can tank him alone wouldn't do so well in other situations.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
If you are stuck to hero-side then I second Uber's suggestion for a SR scrapper (with IOs).
Just for Poops and Giggles, I might as well share this BS/Regen Scrapper build I made some time ago (before the expansion to the APPs, which explains the lack of Physical Perfection):
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Regen Scrapper: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Slash -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(3), Tr'ge-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx(9), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(15), Numna-Heal/Rchg(15)
Level 2: Reconstruction -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(3), Tr'ge-Heal/Rchg(7), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx(7), RechRdx-I(21), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 4: Slice -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(5), Acc-I(37), Dmg-I(39), Dmg-I(39)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 8: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(23), EndMod-I(25)
Level 10: Parry -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(11), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(11), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(13), LkGmblr-Rchg+(25), LkGmblr-Def(27)
Level 12: Air Superiority -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(13), Acc-I(40), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(40)
Level 14: Fly -- Frbd-Stlth(A), Frbd-Fly(37)
Level 16: Integration -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx(17), Tr'ge-Heal/Rchg(19), Heal-I(42)
Level 18: Whirling Sword -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(19), Acc-I(42), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(43)
Level 20: Dull Pain -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal(21), Heal-I(34), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(34), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 22: Resilience -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 24: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 26: Disembowel -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(27), Acc-I(46), Dmg-I(46), Dmg-I(48)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(29), Heal-I(31), Heal-I(31), Heal-I(31)
Level 30: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Heal-I(33), Heal-I(33), Heal-I(34)
Level 32: Head Splitter -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(33), Acc-I(43), Dmg-I(46), Dmg-I(48)
Level 35: Revive -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Boxing -- Rope-Acc/Stun(A), Rope-Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(50)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(45), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(45), S'dpty-Def(45)
Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(48), ToHit-I(50)
Level 49: Laser Beam Eyes -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 3% Defense(Smashing)
- 3% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 3% Defense(Energy)
- 3% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Melee)
- 3% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 6% Enhancement(Heal)
- 15% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
- 176% (9.84 HP/sec) Regeneration
48.7 hp/sec without IH.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
Irrelevant. The entire point of these tankmage wannabe threads is to be dominant against all possible outcomes.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
It sort of depends on what you want to be unkillable against.
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Quote:
Bots/Traps.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Irrelevant. The entire point of these tankmage wannabe threads is to be dominant against all possible outcomes.
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Take all pet/upgrade powers, maneuvers, FFG, and get the pet defense IO.
All other slotting/powers is superfluous.
This topic is now over.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Ok, I guess I will post this again.
This is my Force Fields/Archery Defender from live.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Cerulean Watchman: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Archery
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Psychic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3)
Level 1: Snap Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Aimed Shot -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg(7), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(11), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Fistful of Arrows -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), Posi-Dmg/Rng(15), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(17), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Range-I(50)
Level 6: Insulation Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19)
Level 8: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 10: Blazing Arrow -- Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(25), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(27)
Level 12: Dispersion Bubble -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(13), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(13)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(21), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(21), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(29), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 16: Hover -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-ResKB(23), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(40), Zephyr-Travel(40)
Level 18: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(31), Zephyr-ResKB(43)
Level 20: Explosive Arrow -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(33), Det'tn-Dmg/Rng(33), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(33), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(34), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(34), P'Shift-End%(37), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(37), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 26: Repulsion Bomb -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(43), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(43), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 28: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Force Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Rain of Arrows -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Knock%(39), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(39), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Dominate -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(42), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 44: World of Confusion -- CoPers-Conf%(A), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(45), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(45), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(45), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(46), CoPers-Conf(46)
Level 47: Mind Over Body -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-Psi/Status(48), Aegis-ResDam(48), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(48), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Detention Field -- RechRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Smashing)
- 3% Defense(Lethal)
- 14.3% Defense(Fire)
- 14.3% Defense(Cold)
- 17.4% Defense(Energy)
- 17.4% Defense(Negative)
- 8% Defense(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Melee)
- 20.5% Defense(Ranged)
- 20.8% Defense(AoE)
- 5% Enhancement(Heal)
- 47% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 87.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 4% Enhancement(Confused)
- 9% FlySpeed
- 125.9 HP (12.4%) HitPoints
- 9% JumpHeight
- 9% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -8)
- Knockup (Mag -8)
- MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
- 24% (0.4 End/sec) Recovery
- 66% (2.8 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 5.67% Resistance(Fire)
- 5.67% Resistance(Cold)
- 1.88% Resistance(Energy)
- 3% Resistance(Psionic)
- 14% RunSpeed
- 3.5% XPDebtProtection
He runs a constant 45% defense Ranged/Aoe 33% Psi, uses hover and Force Bubble to avoid melee. Has 44% resist S/L and 35% resist Psi.
A few of his exploits can be found in my Sig: the RWZ challenge and Herding a tower on the ITF.
Quote:
As a major DM/Regen optimizer, I can say that that build immediately fails for one big reason: no MoG. MoG is going to be a huge contributor to your survivability along with all of your other click powers which you slotted rather poorly. +Regen is definitely not going to be worth it within the confines of a well optimized regen build because you're not getting all that much comparative benefit when you've already got as much damage recovery as */Regen packs in, not to mention that +hp is pretty much pointless considering you can get DP permanent and that'll pretty much cap your hp along with the +hp accolades. What makes it worse is that you turned one of your best attacks (Midnight Grasp) into a set mule and pretty much discounted more than half of what your secondary actually brings to the table: those 4 click powers. +Rech is just as important, if not more important, than +rech when it comes to top end */Regen builds, and you definitely failed to get appreciable levels of that.|
Originally Posted by DarkInvado
After a bit of thinking I made up a DM/Regen Scrapper. I slotted him to get as much melee defense as possible and made versions with and with out the PvP +3% def proc. Since I have never played or even tried making a regen and only one DM my build might be way off so feel free to nitpick even down to just one slot. I feel like this guy would be pretty damn hard to kill with DM's -to hit and Siphon Life and the massive regen and heals offered my Regen.
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Now, from the perspective of "impossible to kill", DM/Regen is not going to be the best simply because softcapping does so much and -tohit isn't reliable enough to cover the last 10% that is generally needed. If anything, the hardiest Scrapper you're going to be able to make is going to be a Kat/WP (with BS/WP a close second). Kat/* provides softcapped melee defense, which allows you to focus on getting AoE and ranged defense and maximizing */WP's substantial damage recovery.
I'd probably go for a katana/inv
softcap range and melee (with the use of DA) and f/c/e/n defense at 40% + with 1 foe in range of Invincibility and with aidself in the build.
DM/Inv would be great as well
Katana/WP
Well that last post was heavy on criticism and short on constructive. Well thanks for tearing it apart Umbral. Maybe you could work on being constructive/positive. If I were to guess I would think I had offended you.
As a side note, if your main draw is to make a survivor that isn't a tank there are some other very sturdy possibilities, though not all heroic:
Dark Melee/Stone Brute
Robotics/Forcefield mastermind
Illusion/Forcefield controller
Crab Soldier of Arachnos
Stone armor is always tough, so that ones's a bit obvious. Most masterminds can be extremely hardy, so forcefield on top of many primaries will be hardier still. Bots give more shields, and help with healing, so if you take a patron shield, medicine, and even the fighting pool, your character is tougher than a tanker with an army to boot. Illusion control gets an army of literally unkillable pets that take all the aggro, so they can be tough as well. (The more the pets are up, the tougher they become, so +recharge is nice.) Adding forcefields with personal forcefield makes them even more survivable, though they lack extreme firepower. Crabs get dull pain, resistance to all damage, high firepower, defenses that make them hard to hit as well as some spider backup to share aggro.
Quote:
Come down to the Scrapper forums and you'll find that, while I'm rarely if ever nice, I'm almost exclusively constructive and helpful. Honestly, your build did offend me to a certain degree because I see so many people that automatically assume that just because of */Regen's name, passive regeneration is the way to go while virtually shelving the click powers that actually provide a vast majority of the set's survivability.|
Originally Posted by DarkInvado
Well that last post was heavy on criticism and short on constructive. Well thanks for tearing it apart Umbral. Maybe you could work on being constructive/positive. If I were to guess I would think I had offended you.
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Funnily enough, that was actually one of my kinder posts, especially considering how poorly thought out that build was. I'll still say that it was highly constructive, especially since I specifically told you your errors and what you should have done instead. Constructive criticism has nothing to do with being nice. It has everything to do with trying to tell you what you did wrong and what you need to do to fix those errors, both of which I did. You may need to get a tougher hide, especially if you're going to put forth builds on a public forum with the moniker "impossible to kill".
Quote:
DarkInvado: You wrote this..."Since I have never played or even tried making a regen and only one DM my build might be way off so feel free to nitpick even down to just one slot. I feel like this guy would be pretty damn hard to kill with DM's -to hit and Siphon Life and the massive regen and heals offered my Regen."|
Originally Posted by DarkInvado
Well that last post was heavy on criticism and short on constructive. Well thanks for tearing it apart Umbral. Maybe you could work on being constructive/positive. If I were to guess I would think I had offended you.
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Umbral was nitpicking your build...something you asked for...and then you complain about the nitpicking?
Re-read Umbrals post...there is a lot you can take from it if you're building a DM/Regen.
LOL Somehow I don't think Umbral needs someone to come to his defense.
Umbral - saying something sucks is far different than saying what you can do to fix it. Saying "slotted rather poorly." does not qualify as constructive. Notice I didn't fail to omit any of the characters from the sentence, as in the question mark I put at the end of "impossible to kill?".
I would bite and engage in a discussion of your rather obvious character deficiencies but it wouldn't be much of a challenge...
Wait, maybe Umbral does need someone to come to his defense.
Thanks everyone who has been sharing builds and giving some great ideas. It has been a great help and very informative.
I'd personally go for a Katana/Dark scrapper, but I'm known to mock the very idea of a "Blue bar".
* Trivially softcaps melee/lethal defense; can get high ranged and AOE easily (start with Weave, Steadfast +3%, and Cloak of Darkness for 15% global defense before any other IO's.)
* Best Heal (For Most Endurance, I know) in the game
* Stuns minions
* 40%-ish Res, with 75% Psi and around 60% Smash/Lethal to take the edge off.
Without doing the build out, I would think you'd be defense capped to 2 out of 3 positionals, plus lethal. So only [say] AOE with no lethal component would hit you any significant portion of the time. It's scary getting that first and second parry in, but after that you're cruising. And you can get back 50-100% of your health with a single button click. You're casual.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Fulmens: Love your sig.
I will play with a few of the builds suggested here, I will start with Katana/Dark. LOL "Casual".
A Gravity Controller alternating between Dimension Shift and Phase Shift.
Impossible to kill your enemies, too, ha.
(Edit: Totally ignoring tolerance for phase, of course.)
Well, Impossible to Kill doesnt seem like it would be easly achieved on a Scrapper.I may be wrong about that, but I find that Dark melee barly does anything to up survivability when your soloing mobs of 4 - 8 in mob size.I acctually find it amazing so many people flock to the DM set with a Defense set, and find it even odder that they belive it'll do much for a Regen.
While in the past I did roll with a DM/Regen Scrapper, I cant honestly say that it was hard to kill.Even though it could Solo +3 missions set for 1 Person back before they put that option to up the mobs was around.It survived Fine for 1 man solo missions, but much more then that, and I was asking for trouble.
Ill also add that it did fine in Teams because of the mainly ST damage it delt, and then Shadow Maul was good when the Tanker Herded everything.So in a Team Setting, it was rather survivable.Impossible to kill?No.
Out of everything iv played over the years, iv found the hardest to kill types in this game for hero side has a long list of what can be nearly impossible to kill.Ill name off a few, and if by naming these off your confused at why they would be hard to kill, just ask me, ill be happy to exsplain.
These are my personal Characters that I play, and have massive show stopping ability, and can be listed as almost impossible to kill, and every one of them can solo at a rating from +0/8 w/bosses, to +3/8 w/bosses without much difficulty.
Dark/Dark - Defender
Storm/Elec - Defender
Cold/Ice - Defender
Traps/Rad - Defender
Fire/Rad - Controller
Fire/Fire - Tanker
These are the ones on my nearly impossible to kill list, and only 1 of them is a melee character, and these arnt the builds youd exspect to be hard to kill either, but they are.
Its not just Defense, and Regen that rules this game.Theres alot more then that around that can easly be geared for massive destruction, or power that can be used to negate the heavy need for extreemly high defenses to increase your survivability.
I by no means think a DM/SD, or Regen, or whatever is crap, but in the amount of time iv played this game, iv noticed theres alot more then people care to think about using, and while some of it seems more exspensive to IO compaired to Defense sets, theres alot out there worth IOing for things other then Possitional Def %s that could put them over the top for stomping power, or crippling debuffs that will make that character excell.
Quote:
Dark Melee on its own compares favorably with some primaries for how much damage mitigation and HP recovery it gives you. That's why people often use it.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Well, Impossible to Kill doesnt seem like it would be easly achieved on a Scrapper.I may be wrong about that, but I find that Dark melee barly does anything to up survivability when your soloing mobs of 4 - 8 in mob size.I acctually find it amazing so many people flock to the DM set with a Defense set, and find it even odder that they belive it'll do much for a Regen.
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Now, it's quite true that one of its strong benefits is its -toHit (and/or its Fear), and those only work against a single target. One of the reasons to mix it with a defense set is not the -toHit, but the self heal. This is why my suggestion was for a defense set with the Fighting pool, softcapped with additional IOs. DM is there for the self-heal.
Remember, "impossible to kill" is a very broad statement, and I interpreted it as being good both in a pile of foes and faced with one big foe. DM isn't especially top-rated at killing a pile of foes, but it's going to help a soft-capped character with good L/S resists and good DDR be very hard to kill as long as it can land its heal on the enemy.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I'm gonna say DM/invuln. DM has nice tohitt debuffs that dont do a whole lot but they are nice. The real reason to go for DM is siphon Life. On a toon with no fast recharging self-heal, SL is pretty awesome. In an attack string of Smite-->SL-->Smite-->MG the siphon life power adds a buttload to your regen.
The reason I say invuln is because of the high resistances, Dull Pain, and ability to softcap. On budgetless build you can achieve softcapped fire/cold and smahing/lethal without a whole lot of effort. Granted, invuln could get wrecked by defense debuffs. This is where Invincibility comes in. You get a defense bonus for every foe within melee range, so it is feasible to attain defense in the 55-60% range (assuming you were softcapped already). So, it would require a string of lucky defense debuff shots from the enemy to kill you. Not to mention you have DullPain, Siphon Life, and very high S/L resists in the case that they do negate your defense.
One other contender would be willpower, though I think WP has a much greater chance of getting wrecked by debuffs.
Quote:
Good point, my Dark/Dark Defender can rip a Big Bad solo Boss apart, as well as can the rest of my builds iv mentioned.The Heal doesnt seem to make the DM set shine to me for a melee character, it is nice to have a heal going off in your attack chain, but not really from my experiance as much help in heavy mob situations, and certainly not much help for a Regen because Regen its self is a massive Multi-Heal Armor Set.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Dark Melee on its own compares favorably with some primaries for how much damage mitigation and HP recovery it gives you. That's why people often use it.
Now, it's quite true that one of its strong benefits is its -toHit (and/or its Fear), and those only work against a single target. One of the reasons to mix it with a defense set is not the -toHit, but the self heal. This is why my suggestion was for a defense set with the Fighting pool, softcapped with additional IOs. DM is there for the self-heal. Remember, "impossible to kill" is a very broad statement, and I interpreted it as being good both in a pile of foes and faced with one big foe. DM isn't especially top-rated at killing a pile of foes, but it's going to help a soft-capped character with good L/S resists and good DDR be very hard to kill as long as it can land its heal on the enemy. |
My Dark/Dark gets Soft-Cap Defense just by hitting his enemies, and can hold a Big Bad with spamming his Fearsome Stare, and his Dark Servant fires it off as well.My Cold/Ice can hold a big bad boss due to fast recharging, and enhanced Hold Duration from Freeze Ray, and the Rains, with the addition of KD and -60% Total on damage resistance makes the Alpha on a Mob, the first and last word.
If anything, id say the use of Regen is fine, if you give it something that compliments it better then DM.From my standpoint, for survivability, DM does great adding that heal, for Armor sets that dont get a Heal Clicky in the first place, but I may be able to come up with something you could combo with Regen to make it more favorable for survivability then a redundant healing power.
Thats assuming your dead set on Regen and being a Scrapper.If you are, then it would be best to get a set that offers KD, or KB as a damage Midigator.It works pretty well for my Sonic/Sonic Defender, as well as my Axe/SR Brute.
Side Note : If I end up getting IOs for my Axe/SD Brute, its more then likly going to be just Recovery and Regen, with some Global Recharge thrown into the mix.Axe allows me to keep the mob on its butt for half or more of the fight, so Def %s arnt much of a issue, even on my /SD Defense Brute.
The point of mentioning my Brute, is that if I went with DM, id be far more vulnerable to damage, and id have to really cram the money down his throat to make him survivable.DM's heal isnt always the answer.
If you really wanted added survivability with Regen on a Scrapper, just take Katana, Broad Sword, Electrical Melee, or even Claws.All of these sets offer way more protection through KD and KB then anything you could achive with DM.
Iv had 2 Regen toons in my time playing this game, both in there 40s when I got bored of them.They where DM/Regen, and Claws/Regen.The DM one, iv already mentioned how it could survive small missions, but with my Claws, I could survive full 8 man missions,thanks to the KD and KB of my Tier 9 being on high Recharge and Accuracy.I didnt worry about Damage for that power, I used it as a midigator, and it worked very well.Soloing Bosses was alot easier with Claws then my DM Scrapper was at it, because My regen powers where up fast enough to allow me to tank, and my fast attacks, and KD from Focus made the fights with Big bads a joke.
So I guess im recomending Claws more then the rest.People severly look over sets because of the KD and KB components.When most mobs if you set them to +1 in difficulty, turn most of the KD, into KB from increased resistance to it.
Heck, my Cold/Ice, and Storm/Elec count on KD from there Debuff rain powers to stop all incomming damage, so they can dish it out.
Quote:
Your post made my brain hurt. A fully-slotted SL heals around 40 hp/second within the MG>Smite>SL>Smite chain, which is the top ST DPS attack chain for DM/ and is one of the highest ST DPS possible for a Scrapper when SD is taken into account. Right now, DM/Shield is sitting at the top of the Scrapper DPS chart for Pylon runs at 289 dps.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Well, Impossible to Kill doesnt seem like it would be easly achieved on a Scrapper. I may be wrong about that, but I find that Dark melee barly does anything to up survivability when your soloing mobs of 4 - 8 in mob size. I acctually find it amazing so many people flock to the DM set with a Defense set, and find it even odder that they belive it'll do much for a Regen.
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As far as pairing DM/ with a Def-based secondary, SL's self-heal plus a soft-capped Defense and 95% DDR is as good as it gets for survival without impacting your DPS with Aid Self when the rare hit does get through your Defense.
Quote:
*puts on baggy-*** pants*|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Good point, my Dark/Dark Defender can rip a Big Bad solo Boss apart, as well as can the rest of my builds iv mentioned.The Heal doesnt seem to make the DM set shine to me for a melee character, it is nice to have a heal going off in your attack chain, but not really from my experiance as much help in heavy mob situations, and certainly not much help for a Regen because Regen its self is a massive Multi-Heal Armor Set.
My Dark/Dark gets Soft-Cap Defense just by hitting his enemies, and can hold a Big Bad with spamming his Fearsome Stare, and his Dark Servant fires it off as well.My Cold/Ice can hold a big bad boss due to fast recharging, and enhanced Hold Duration from Freeze Ray, and the Rains, with the addition of KD and -60% Total on damage resistance makes the Alpha on a Mob, the first and last word. If anything, id say the use of Regen is fine, if you give it something that compliments it better then DM.From my standpoint, for survivability, DM does great adding that heal, for Armor sets that dont get a Heal Clicky in the first place, but I may be able to come up with something you could combo with Regen to make it more favorable for survivability then a redundant healing power. Thats assuming your dead set on Regen and being a Scrapper.If you are, then it would be best to get a set that offers KD, or KB as a damage Midigator.It works pretty well for my Sonic/Sonic Defender, as well as my Axe/SR Brute. Side Note : If I end up getting IOs for my Axe/SD Brute, its more then likly going to be just Recovery and Regen, with some Global Recharge thrown into the mix.Axe allows me to keep the mob on its butt for half or more of the fight, so Def %s arnt much of a issue, even on my /SD Defense Brute. The point of mentioning my Brute, is that if I went with DM, id be far more vulnerable to damage, and id have to really cram the money down his throat to make him survivable.DM's heal isnt always the answer. If you really wanted added survivability with Regen on a Scrapper, just take Katana, Broad Sword, Electrical Melee, or even Claws.All of these sets offer way more protection through KD and KB then anything you could achive with DM. Iv had 2 Regen toons in my time playing this game, both in there 40s when I got bored of them.They where DM/Regen, and Claws/Regen.The DM one, iv already mentioned how it could survive small missions, but with my Claws, I could survive full 8 man missions,thanks to the KD and KB of my Tier 9 being on high Recharge and Accuracy.I didnt worry about Damage for that power, I used it as a midigator, and it worked very well.Soloing Bosses was alot easier with Claws then my DM Scrapper was at it, because My regen powers where up fast enough to allow me to tank, and my fast attacks, and KD from Focus made the fights with Big bads a joke. So I guess im recomending Claws more then the rest.People severly look over sets because of the KD and KB components.When most mobs if you set them to +1 in difficulty, turn most of the KD, into KB from increased resistance to it. Heck, my Cold/Ice, and Storm/Elec count on KD from there Debuff rain powers to stop all incomming damage, so they can dish it out. |
Stop.
Grammar time!
*does MC Hammer dance and immediately looks chagrined*
There's a mix of facts*, opinions, and errors in your post. In some cases i think it's because you're confusing power names, but most of what you're asserting is more to do with your playstyle and less to do with the objective capabilities of the sets. Also, as usual, you're making claims about what everybody else does or thinks about ATs/powersets that isn't borne out by what i've seen posted in the relevant forum sections. i'm guessing that most of what you say about how players think about various powers and sets comes from AP broadcast on Freedom or Virtue. Or maybe you just remember all the foolish posts in various threads and ignore all the posts that refute them.
*Extra light on the facts.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Trying to dream up my next hero and I was thinking I would try and make a toon that was NOT a tank and damn near impossible to kill. If you could make any toon besides a tank that your thought was damn near impossible to kill what would it be? Feel free to post builds here as I am sure we all will be able to learn a few tricks we have not thought of before.
After a bit of thinking I made up a DM/Regen Scrapper. I slotted him to get as much melee defense as possible and made versions with and with out the PvP +3% def proc. Since I have never played or even tried making a regen and only one DM my build might be way off so feel free to nitpick even down to just one slot. I feel like this guy would be pretty damn hard to kill with DM's -to hit and Siphon Life and the massive regen and heals offered my Regen.
Thoughts?
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Science Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Punch
- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (5) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (5) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (7) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
Level 1: Fast Healing- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (13) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge
- (13) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (43) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
Level 2: Reconstruction- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
- (17) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (17) Doctored Wounds - Heal
Level 4: Smite- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (7) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (9) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (9) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (11) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (11) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
Level 6: Quick Recovery- (A) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod
- (15) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Endurance
- (15) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Recharge
Level 8: Shadow Maul- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (19) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (19) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (21) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (21) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (23) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
Level 10: Hurdle- (A) Jumping IO
Level 12: Dull Pain- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (23) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (25) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
Level 14: Combat Jumping- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (25) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
Level 16: Super Jump- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 18: Integration- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (27) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge
- (29) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
Level 20: Siphon Life- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (29) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (31) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (31) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (31) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (33) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
Level 22: Resilience- (A) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
- (33) Titanium Coating - Resistance
- (33) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Recharge
Level 24: Health- (A) Miracle - Heal/Endurance
- (34) Miracle - Heal
- (34) Miracle - Heal/Recharge
Level 26: Stamina- (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (34) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
- (36) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
Level 28: Kick- (A) Empty
Level 30: Tough- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (36) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
- (36) Titanium Coating - Resistance
- (40) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Recharge
Level 32: Soul Drain- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (39) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
Level 35: Instant Healing- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (39) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (40) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
Level 38: Midnight Grasp- (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Recharge
- (40) Enfeebled Operation - Endurance/Immobilize
- (42) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance
- (42) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (43) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize
- (43) Enfeebled Operation - Immobilize/Range
Level 41: Focused Accuracy- (A) Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception
- (42) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff
Level 44: Physical Perfection- (A) Miracle - +Recovery
- (45) Miracle - Heal
- (45) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
- (45) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (46) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (46) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
Level 47: Hasten- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (48) Recharge Reduction IO
- (48) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 49: Weave- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
------------Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest- (A) Empty
Level 1: Critical Hit------------
Set Bonus Totals: