City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Are we that hated?

Ad Astra

By Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-02-14 22:18 in The Market and Inventions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
just throw him on ignore Hyperstrike. He's been reported to be one of the major griefers and hell-reppers on the forums. Unfortunately, one can abuse the rep system, or the forum system, without abusing the rules, so I think the GM's hands are tied for this player.
I think it far more likely that the average forum user will put you on ignore before Macskull.....for good reason.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
Maybe sometime after you divorce yourself from the smug condescension.

As of right now, you're simply going to rip on whatever I say.

So feel free, as I'm thoroughly sick of this subject (again).
No, actually, I'm interested in your input on this matter. I'm curious what methods you believe would be used to counter a KB power without having to slot IOs. Given that people who know the ins and outs of the system have been trying for nearly two years and still haven't figured it out, I doubt anyone would be able to, but if there's a suggestion, I'm willing to hear it.

If you wish to take it to PMs so as to not clutter this thread, I'd be more than willing to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
just throw him on ignore Hyperstrike. He's been reported to be one of the major griefers and hell-reppers on the forums. Unfortunately, one can abuse the rep system, or the forum system, without abusing the rules, so I think the GM's hands are tied for this player.
If your sample size includes only yourself, you might be correct. I have, however, been known to pick out people that are being obtuse or just plain idiotic and call them on it. Unfortunately in an age where everyone's coddled and can only say nice things, this is looked down upon. I'm curious as to how I've earned such a reputation among such upstanding posters as yourself, though, as I give out far more +rep than -rep, and never leave my name when I do either. Amusingly, given that I don't participate in any of the "rep farm" threads, it seems as though the majority of people that bother repping posts agree with me most of the time. Given that my rep hasn't been reset to zero by the mods (who can see comments and who left them), I'd say I've been pretty within the lines on how I've used the rep system. I'm also not sure how offering constructive criticism, build advice, sample builds, guiding new players, and giving away inf and enhancements could be seen as "griefing," but perhaps you're using a different dictionary than I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
Huh. There's been some kind of massive cultural shift recently?
Your definition of "exploit" is probably pretty broad. There are very few exploits that are capable of causing problems for another player (TPing people into geometry they can't get out of, or getting under the map to grief people as they spawn are about the only two examples I can think of). For the most part, use of powers as they appear in-game is a legitimate use. You might not like how a player uses those powers against you, but odds are very good they're not utilizing an exploit.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
just throw him on ignore Hyperstrike. He's been reported to be one of the major griefers and hell-reppers on the forums. Unfortunately, one can abuse the rep system, or the forum system, without abusing the rules, so I think the GM's hands are tied for this player.
By whom?

I've teamed with mac and talked with him a bit, and he's one of the more helpful people I know.

I'd check your sources.

 

Posted

I get the idea that was the forum rep version of accusing Mac of raising inflation by flipping.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
just throw him on ignore Hyperstrike. He's been reported to be one of the major griefers and hell-reppers on the forums. Unfortunately, one can abuse the rep system, or the forum system, without abusing the rules, so I think the GM's hands are tied for this player.
Really? Do you look in the mirror much?

I have seen Mac fight back to insults tossed his way and occasionally throw a little sarcasm into his posts. But just about every time I see your name you are throwing insults and belittling other posters and their opinions.

50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM

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Posted

Soooooo....

If I hoard merits, so that I can buy the recipes I want at the levels I want, so that I can craft them and improve my build...

BUT in the meantime, while I'm earning said merits (by, y'know, PLAYING THE GAME) turn around and craft/sell my drops on the market or at the vender (depending on profitability margin)....

...what does that make me?

someone have an ebil-meter handy?

Quote:
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Posted

That makes you a smart and rich cat.

50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM

Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impish Kat View Post
someone have an ebil-meter handy?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by gec72 View Post
So really what you guys are saying then is that the merit cap is too high.

I guess I understand - it's like having liquidity in real estate, or gold, or foreign currency, or whatever. And for those with vast amounts of inf, no use in cashing them in if they really don't need to. If you're given a drop on the spot, you're forced to deal with it much sooner.

I guess what I don't get is folks in the same forum lamenting that there isn't enough supply, but at the same time admitting that their own actions help lead to the lack of supply. And then that the devs should do something about it. Isn't that more or less saying "Well, we can't really control our own behavior. Devs, you need to do something to force us into acting in the best interest of the markets?" That in essence, the devs gave the players too much freedom?

NordBlast: before merits, were you still running two TF a day? Were you selling the drops?

I ran more TFs before i13. It was at least 2 KHTFs and 1 ITF daily, 2 Speedens back to back almost daily. Cap SF red side. LGTF, STF, Manti, Hess few times a week.

Junk was vendored, Numina++, Miracle+, LotG 7.5, Jump and Run StealthIO hoarded, other stuff was sold on market.

As soon as toon reached lvl39 it was used as eden opener exclusively. I stopped leveling one of my toons when it reached level 43. It was used only to run TFs that won't give XP.


While I understand that you remark wasn't directed only at me, I want to say that I never complained regarding supply/demand and markets. If there are enough people with similar behavioral traits as mine regarding drops and merits, then no one should be surprised with current market state.

 

Posted

It's an unfortunate effect [sorry, choir, I'm gonna preach] that people who Want It Nao will buy whatever's on the market Nao. Which is usually level 50's because that's where the play happens and the supply happens. And people who Want It Nao will pay inflated prices.

... and that's why max-level procs cost MORE than lower level ones.

... and that's why it's financially stupid to roll at any level below 50.

... and that's why there's nothing but 50's on the market.

... and so it goes.

(Note: As far as pool B's, anyway, more are produced at level 50 than at level 30-49 combined. In a moment of scientific curiosity/stupidity I tried to corner the entire supply of Mako's Dam/End once, buy new ones, sell a supply of the ones I had and generally raise the price floor. It didn't work, made me cranky, and gave me that very expensive chunk of knowledge. )

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Posted

The one which goes to 11 is the deluxe edition, complete with monocle.

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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post



But... but.... but...

1. I "hoard" merits, using them for my OWN selfish NEEDS (okay, wants) instead of using them on random rolls & crafting Uber IO's for mass inf.

2. I do not always put my salvage up on the market.
  • If there is an existing excess, I usually vendor it.
  • If there seems to be a shortage, I will often list my sale price for a small percentage over what I might get at the vendor, which undersells all you ebil... errr... those who are apparently more ebil than myself marketeers.
3. In 2 1/2 years of play, I have yet to join "the club". Though, if I pooled all the inf from all my alts... I might be halfway there.

So, in conclusion, I can't possibly be THAT eb--

Quote:
Originally Posted by macskull View Post
The one which goes to 11 is the deluxe edition, complete with monocle.
Oh.
Okay.

Quote:
Don�t say things.
What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impish Kat View Post


But... but.... but...
Okay!

OKAY!

FINE!



Happy now?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impish Kat View Post
I guess I have no choice but to revel in the ensuing hatred.
And I say again...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by gec72 View Post
Well, I definitely agree with the last one. But do we know for a fact that merits are being hoarded, and by hoarded do you mean saved for a higher level, or not rolled at all?
FWIW as anecdata...

As I'm levelling up, I save merits and then roll all I have at 35 -- IOs I want for any toons are slotted, the rest I sell. I'll keep rolling up to around level 40, and after that tend not to do much with my merits. I only put a lot of effort into IOing out toons I'm expecting to want to keep playing at 50, and I try to outfit them with IOs of around level 30-40.

With my 50s, I honestly just tend to forget the merits are there. I already have plenty of inf. The market has a lot of supply at 50, so generating more isn't much of a help for supply problems. If I notice that I've hit the merit cap I do a bunch of random rolls, or if I'm feeling lazy I buy a LotG +rech or two and sell them. And I occasionally use the merits for buying very low level KB protection or Stealth IOs for lowbie characters.

If it were possible to choose the level of random recipes rolls, I'd roll an awful lot more of them. I suppose I should spend more time in AE and roll tickets instead, but I like TFs.

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Posted

Fulmens:

Here's a big AMEN from the gallery

And Grouchybeast, the random reward roll slider works the same for AE tickets as reward merits. You get the recipe at your level or the set's maximum level, so no help there.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
It's an unfortunate effect [sorry, choir, I'm gonna preach] that people who Want It Nao will buy whatever's on the market Nao. Which is usually level 50's because that's where the play happens and the supply happens. And people who Want It Nao will pay inflated prices.

... and that's why max-level procs cost MORE than lower level ones.

... and that's why it's financially stupid to roll at any level below 50.

... and that's why there's nothing but 50's on the market.

... and so it goes.

(Note: As far as pool B's, anyway, more are produced at level 50 than at level 30-49 combined. In a moment of scientific curiosity/stupidity I tried to corner the entire supply of Mako's Dam/End once, buy new ones, sell a supply of the ones I had and generally raise the price floor. It didn't work, made me cranky, and gave me that very expensive chunk of knowledge. )

I say people pay inflated prices because that's all we have a choice to do. When's the last time you got a 7.5% LotG for 50mil or less or a miracle recov? Been a while, i'd say. It's not financially stupid to roll lower than 50, imo. I have a toon stopped at 35 and lev 35 recipes sell for more than 50's on alot of recipes due to dried up market in that area. As you know.

We need better drop rates. Period. Or a better way to get lower lev recipes. Wonder why people PL to 50? Well, it's where the supply is readily available. Who wants to let a bid sit for months hoping to fill on a toon, then do the same thing across what, 30 powers? Who plays 1 toon that long before rolling an alt? Surely not me.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
I say people pay inflated prices because that's all we have a choice to do.
Wrong! The fact that you can accumulate merits shows this for the lie it is.

Quote:
We need better drop rates. Period.
Define "better" though.

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Or a better way to get lower lev recipes.
Because spec-buying at a specific level with merits is impossible right?

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Wonder why people PL to 50?
Nope. Impatience is quite obvious.

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Well, it's where the supply is readily available.
You're missing the point. This sort of thinking is a vicious circle.

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Who wants to let a bid sit for months hoping to fill on a toon, then do the same thing across what, 30 powers?
Someone who's patient and intelligent.

Quote:
Who plays 1 toon that long before rolling an alt? Surely not me.
I have something in the neighborhood of 50 toons across several servers. I play most of them regularly. Some may go for long periods between plays, but they all get played.

It's the altitis that allows me to take the longer view.


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Posted

I think it took me about two months to fully-IO Alexei, and that was despite using four toons worth of slots for my purchasing, and having most of the funds on hand (had to scramble for an extra couple billion at the end). It was almost all patient, bid-creeping bidding over days and weeks. In hind sight, I'm not sure it was worth it. I could have been using those slots to make influence at an enormous rate, paid nearly buy it nao prices, and been done in a couple weeks. But it's what I did.

Who plays one toon that long? Me. Two of my toons have over 1500 hours each on them. Frankly, wanting to play a toon that long is the only reason I can see for filling them with the best IOs available. Why do it on a character you're going to abandon in a few weeks?

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godpants View Post
And Grouchybeast, the random reward roll slider works the same for AE tickets as reward merits. You get the recipe at your level or the set's maximum level, so no help there.
Oh, right. Well, so much for that plan :-)

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
I say people pay inflated prices because that's all we have a choice to do.
there's this thing called "merits" you might want to check out.

you aren't even trying to make sense any more, are you?

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Frankly, wanting to play a toon that long is the only reason I can see for filling them with the best IOs available. Why do it on a character you're going to abandon in a few weeks?
That's pretty much my view, too. Once I get up to the mid-30s, then I can usually tell if the character is going to be something I'll want to play for a long time, and then I'll do a 50 build in Mids and start putting in low bids for the nice set recipes. Otherwise, I'm fine with common IOs and cheap sets until I get bored with the character and move on.

Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
Wrong!

Someone who's patient and intelligent.
Patient get to that next, but intelligent ????? Not So Much.

Its more a question of

1. They don't care about playing a particular character.

2. They don't play that much

3. They don't particularly require that item.

Now as to patience

Well if you enjoy playing a squishy slow tank, an incredibly breakable blaster that spends alot of time resting, or a glacially moving defender its pretty easy to be patient. Or if you already have other characters that are well equipped and the one that is being patient is just a new project, its pretty easy to tell people to be patient.