Quote:
I kind of view 1-50 as the test drive, the trial period, just getting an idea what the character is like. If I really like what I see, and can come up with a good plan for continued advancement (i.e., a good IO build), then I'll keep going... and going, and going, and going. But most of my 50s have a combination of SOs and frankenslotting because I decided I wasn't enjoying them enough to continue on the post 50 IO path. I played them for my 1-50 trial period, decided, "nah", and moved on. They aren't necessarily completely abandoned. I may still dig them out now and again. But they're not getting big hours.
|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
That's pretty much my view, too. Once I get up to the mid-30s, then I can usually tell if the character is going to be something I'll want to play for a long time, and then I'll do a 50 build in Mids and start putting in low bids for the nice set recipes. Otherwise, I'm fine with common IOs and cheap sets until I get bored with the character and move on.
|
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Yeah, this is a huge disconnect between a lot of the "patience is a market virtue" crowd and the "stuff is too expensive/rare/hard to find" crowd. I'm gonna play the crap out of my characters - it's why I want to IO them. I just don't get IOing some lark, PL'd character to the gills. If you're going to PL a character and play it a ton afterwords, I have no problem with that. But I consider churning out a harem of 50s and trying to IO them all on the spot and then complaining about prices pretty dumb.|
Originally Posted by Werner
Who plays one toon that long? Me. Two of my toons have over 1500 hours each on them. Frankly, wanting to play a toon that long is the only reason I can see for filling them with the best IOs available. Why do it on a character you're going to abandon in a few weeks?
|
I'm not saying everyone complaining about prices does stuff like that, but we have seen it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Yeah, my mindset is generally different from those. I play to 50, and along the way I want to pick up set pieces. Doesn't particularly matter if it's a level 36 piece; for me that's good because I'll be able to use it for 17 levels. So from the 30s on I might be getting three slots at a level, and with them three more set bonuses. I like to have my Mids build almost complete by the time I ding 50, because I know I am going to focus more attention on another character at that time.
Of course, I try not to put things into my build that I don't think I'll get. So I don't plan for purples (obviously), or Numina/Miracle/LotG (or I'll place them but not really rely on them. I have a Regenerative Tissue +Regen...somewhere unslotted because I didn't have it planned in any of my builds.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Quote:
So you're saying someone who's been (repeatedly (and repeatedly repeatedly)) told that the best way to pick up stuff they want is to be patient and sensible with their marketing activities, but chooses to go "SKREW DAT! GIMMEH NAO!" (paying the resultant exorbitant fee), then complains about high pricing is NOT an imbecile?|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Patient get to that next, but intelligent ????? Not So Much.
|
Quote:
| Well if you enjoy playing a squishy slow tank, an incredibly breakable blaster that spends alot of time resting, or a glacially moving defender its pretty easy to be patient. Or if you already have other characters that are well equipped and the one that is being patient is just a new project, its pretty easy to tell people to be patient. |
You're not even trying are you?
Do you need a McLaren F1 to drive to work?
Is an SO'ed tank/blaster/etc squishy/weak compared to some multi-billion Inf build whose player has min-maxed the bejesus out of stat-wise?
OH HELL YEAH!
Doesn't mean it's unplayable or bad in any way shape or form.
Every tank doesn't have to be able to tank LR or Reichsman unassisted.
Every scrapper doesn't have to be able to complete the RWZ Challenge or solo AVs.
Every blaster doesn't have to be able to one-shot bosses.
Etc, etc.
I'm not arguing "It's not the best". If that's what you're trying to argue, good luck. Nobody in their right mind cares about that. We're talking about realistic, every-day play in the game.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
This is like saying that being stuffed into a running chipper-shredder is "pretty painful".
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
But I consider churning out a harem of 50s and trying to IO them all on the spot and then complaining about prices pretty dumb.
|
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
The flipside of that is this is nominally entertainment. If watching grass grow and paint dry are entertaining to you then you might find being patient waiting for bids to fill equally enjoyable.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
So you're saying someone who's been (repeatedly (and repeatedly repeatedly)) told that the best way to pick up stuff they want is to be patient and sensible with their marketing activities, but chooses to go "SKREW DAT! GIMMEH NAO!" (paying the resultant exorbitant fee), then complains about high pricing is NOT an imbecile?
|
Quote:
|
You're not even trying are you? Do you need a McLaren F1 to drive to work? Is an SO'ed tank/blaster/etc squishy/weak compared to some multi-billion Inf build whose player has min-maxed the bejesus out of stat-wise? OH HELL YEAH! Doesn't mean it's unplayable or bad in any way shape or form. Every tank doesn't have to be able to tank LR or Reichsman unassisted. Every scrapper doesn't have to be able to complete the RWZ Challenge or solo AVs. Every blaster doesn't have to be able to one-shot bosses. Etc, etc. I'm not arguing "It's not the best". If that's what you're trying to argue, good luck. Nobody in their right mind cares about that. We're talking about realistic, every-day play in the game. |
Now back to the actual points
The game is balanced around 1 hero = 3 even con minions. Or some such equally enjoyable point.
That isn't a Ferrari its a Yugo.
Quote:
Fortunately, I have NEVER found that equation to be even REMOTELY true of mid level and above characters, even with just SOs. Your mileage may differ, but if that's a Yugo, I'm definitely driving at least a Porsche 911 on my cheapo SO and frankenslotted characters.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The game is balanced around 1 hero = 3 even con minions. Or some such equally enjoyable point.
That isn't a Ferrari its a Yugo. |
(Edit: Also, some of the most fun I've had on a track was being a passenger in an old Datsun 210 with less than a hundred horsepower being driven by an experienced racer. It isn't always what you drive; it's how you drive it.)
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Yeah, this is a huge disconnect between a lot of the "patience is a market virtue" crowd and the "stuff is too expensive/rare/hard to find" crowd. I'm gonna play the crap out of my characters - it's why I want to IO them. I just don't get IOing some lark, PL'd character to the gills. If you're going to PL a character and play it a ton afterwords, I have no problem with that. But I consider churning out a harem of 50s and trying to IO them all on the spot and then complaining about prices pretty dumb.
I'm not saying everyone complaining about prices does stuff like that, but we have seen it. |
I don't get to actually play any of my characters a whole lot these days- for me IO'ing them out has to some extent become the game. Popping in and checking the market, picking up and crafting wins, collecting on sales, messing around with builds, all that fits nicely into my current (greatly reduced) gaming schedule.
Running the occasional mission to stress test performance on evolving builds is about the extent of my 'real' gameplay these days.
I have noticed lately that all the changes of the last few years have greatly suppressed my formerly insatiable appetite for new alts- the ability to evolve existing characters via IOs means I can keep scratching that character development itch with characters who've hit the level cap.
I'm sure Going Rogue will reignite my alt-itis though, if we get the plethora of new costume options I'm expecting.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I don't get to actually play any of my characters a whole lot these days- for me IO'ing them out has to some extent become the game. Popping in and checking the market, picking up and crafting wins, collecting on sales, messing around with builds, all that fits nicely into my current (greatly reduced) gaming schedule.
Running the occasional mission to stress test performance on evolving builds is about the extent of my 'real' gameplay these days. I have noticed lately that all the changes of the last few years have greatly suppressed my formerly insatiable appetite for new alts- the ability to evolve existing characters via IOs means I can keep scratching that character development itch with characters who've hit the level cap. I'm sure Going Rogue will reignite my alt-itis though, if we get the plethora of new costume options I'm expecting. |
This is kinda me. I LOVE IO'ing toons. I have several just BA toons waiting to be played. I hate playing low levels with only a couple powers to click. I really like getting them into teh mid 30's -40's and then IO'ing them with goodies. If i get into the 30's and it isn't what i thought it'd be, i delete. I even delete at 50 if not satisfied.
Maybe that's why i say we need more drops. I can get a couple toons ready to IO per week. The problem is the market is dry, hence the reason i stopped a toon at 35 for recipes. Got a ton of LotG, Posi's, Kin Com's just waiting to be placed on the next toon i think is worth it. I like playing high end farms, or missions over low level stuff.
I have no desire to just sit toons at WW and check in and out though. I sell what i don't want and buy what i do. To call people names because they don't want to do that, is pretty imbecilic in itself. So, continue to post on every sentence if you want, but grow up and realize not everyone has to agree with you, either. I can make just as much inf without flipping, manipulating, using 10 toons to sit at WW, or whatever you want to do. Does it mean i like spending it on teh inflated prices? Not so much because i like to IO alot of toons, not just 1.
It's not stupid to pay BUY IT NAO prices.
It's not stupid to complain about the market.
It IS exceedingly stupid to pay BUY IT NAO prices and complain about it, because more often than not, you could have gotten what you wanted at a fraction of the price with the application of a little knowledge and patience.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
If you're going to place a bid, then sit there holding your breath until it fills...|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The flipside of that is this is nominally entertainment. If watching grass grow and paint dry are entertaining to you then you might find being patient waiting for bids to fill equally enjoyable.
|
Quote:
| 1st there is no blaster that can one shot an even con or higher bosses unaided even at the damage cap blizzard won't do it (assuming all the ticks actually hit and the boss stays still for the whole 15 seconds) |
Completely. Utterly.
And I love how you picked out the single instance of hyperbole and attacked it.
Almost like I put it there for you to do so. Like I was trying to prove that you're not focusing on the issue. Merely wanting your way and willing to attack anything getting in your way.
Almost like it was a plot...now where did I put my brass armor...
Quote:
|
The game is balanced around 1 hero = 3 even con minions. Or some such equally enjoyable point. That isn't a Ferrari its a Yugo. |
When you can do something other than parrot "I want what I want and I want it now", then come talk to me about it. Until then, you're simply sound and fury...
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
It's not stupid to pay BUY IT NAO prices.
It's not stupid to complain about the market. It IS exceedingly stupid to pay BUY IT NAO prices and complain about it, because more often than not, you could have gotten what you wanted at a fraction of the price with the application of a little knowledge and patience. |
My point exactly.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
I'll just throw out a quick thought here...|
Originally Posted by macskull
...
People can't flip unless there are buyers willing to pay what they're asking. If everyone refused to pay 2 million for that Pangean Soil, no one would be able to list them for that much. If people were smart about it, they'd place bids for 1.5 million, or even 1 million, and let them sit a few days. Unfortunately people are lazy or just impatient, see the last 5 bids, and assume that's what the going rate is (which is never a good idea unless those last 5 bids are spread out over a significant period of time). So, the simple truth is - if so many people actually took the time to place reasonable bids instead of blindly bidding along with the last 5 - the prices would be COMPLETELY different in our little market. And yes that means far far lower. Period.... |
I always see this type of argument, "if you don't want to pay for x salvage at y price, just put a bid in for z price and wait a few days/a week."
Well I've done that on quite a few items (even waiting up to 1-2 weeks or whenever I log the char. back in) and still don't get the item. Now this excludes recipes or salvage that I try to 'low-ball' to get a purple or what have you at a really cheap price.
Now luckily I've pretty much not needed to buy anything on the market (of if have it was stuff that was cheap) so can't say anything now but there are cases where it does seem where someone/people are 'controlling' the prices somehow.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Quote:
Its OK Pee Wee|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
If you're going to place a bid, then sit there holding your breath until it fills...
Completely. Utterly. And I love how you picked out the single instance of hyperbole and attacked it. Almost like I put it there for you to do so. Like I was trying to prove that you're not focusing on the issue. Merely wanting your way and willing to attack anything getting in your way. Almost like it was a plot...now where did I put my brass armor... |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJXU7EVXs2A
This isn't a discussion about blasters so lack of knowledge doesn't matter.
Quote:
|
Again, do you need a Ferrari to simply drive into work? No. When you can do something other than parrot "I want what I want and I want it now", then come talk to me about it. Until then, you're simply sound and fury... |
No one drives the game into work
The game is not a utility device.
It is entertainment.
In this context a Ferrari is entertaining a Yugo is not.
Second just to refine your ability to actually read what is written find where I said "I want what I want and I want it now".
And on the whole need vs want situation I will observe that people with the most ridiculously IOed builds complain that the game is too easy, and its completely playable with generic SOs. One recently complained about playing on a TF where everyone was twinked out to the point of being able to solo it. The obvious solution was to use an alternate build on his toon that wasn't.
So obvious hypocrisy ftw ?
Quote:
The problem here is that people aren't trying to say you can should bid any low-ball price you feel like and expect get an item (though it's possible you can get anything for any low price if you wait long enough). They're saying that if the price is really currently inflated over the average/low/typical price, you can bid that more sedate price and expect to get the item in some time scale that's not completely ridiculous.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
I'll just throw out a quick thought here...
I always see this type of argument, "if you don't want to pay for x salvage at y price, just put a bid in for z price and wait a few days/a week." Well I've done that on quite a few items (even waiting up to 1-2 weeks or whenever I log the char. back in) and still don't get the item. Now this excludes recipes or salvage that I try to 'low-ball' to get a purple or what have you at a really cheap price. |
But what I just said is longer and adding in all the conditional branches makes it harder to say and read, so people contract it. Then meaning gets lost, either in the saying or the reading.
If any given player thinks that paying 10M inf for Doc Delilah's Shovel: Chance for Landslide is outrageous, but every other player is willing to pay 10M inf, our given player is probably out of luck. The whole place-a-bid-and-wait strategy is for people willing to bid 8M when the going rate is 10, or who will place a 10M inf bid and go away because the price is 25M when they went to buy one. The guy who bids 1M inf and crosses his fingers might as well have bought a Paragon City lottery ticket.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
I'll just throw out a quick thought here...
I always see this type of argument, "if you don't want to pay for x salvage at y price, just put a bid in for z price and wait a few days/a week." Well I've done that on quite a few items (even waiting up to 1-2 weeks or whenever I log the char. back in) and still don't get the item. Now this excludes recipes or salvage that I try to 'low-ball' to get a purple or what have you at a really cheap price. Now luckily I've pretty much not needed to buy anything on the market (of if have it was stuff that was cheap) so can't say anything now but there are cases where it does seem where someone/people are 'controlling' the prices somehow. |
What isn't mentioned in that is you need to have a pretty good idea what the price range on the salvage/recipe/etc is and have a solid grasp on its volatility. If its not the kind of thing you look in on regularly it can be difficult to pull off in any kind of reasonable time frame.
Quote:
Yeah. Sucks being caught don't it?|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
This isn't a discussion about blasters so lack of knowledge doesn't matter.
|
Quote:
|
I can see reading comprehension is difficult for you, so I will take this slowly. No one drives the game into work The game is not a utility device. It is entertainment. |
Quote:
| In this context a Ferrari is entertaining a Yugo is not. |
Good luck with that.
Quote:
| Second just to refine your ability to actually read what is written find where I said "I want what I want and I want it now". |
Quote:
|
And on the whole need vs want situation I will observe that people with the most ridiculously IOed builds complain that the game is too easy, and its completely playable with generic SOs. One recently complained about playing on a TF where everyone was twinked out to the point of being able to solo it. The obvious solution was to use an alternate build on his toon that wasn't. So obvious hypocrisy ftw ? |
What do you THINK I (or the other person) was playing on prior to their high level of IO'ing?
As for complaining about the game being "too easy", well, there's also the current issue of being unable to twink a task force's difficulty settings by level due to people using it to -1 tough task forces.
Please feel free to come back and actually express what you "meant" in a coherent manner.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Oh god, we had a '79 Datsun 210 until about 15 years ago. Drove the thing to the dump because it was worth more for the scrap metal by that point than it would've been worth even selling as a car (also kept the tires, as they were worth more then the rest of the car as well).
|
Originally Posted by Werner
(Edit: Also, some of the most fun I've had on a track was being a passenger in an old Datsun 210 with less than a hundred horsepower being driven by an experienced racer. It isn't always what you drive; it's how you drive it.)
|
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Well, it has to be a realistic price, and that requires some background knowledge. Like today, I need a Simple Chemical. The last 5 sales were 40,000 <snort of amusement>. I put in an EXTRAVAGANT price that was less than 1/10th of that and went to do other stuff. The bid filled in less than 30 minutes.
|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
I always see this type of argument, "if you don't want to pay for x salvage at y price, just put a bid in for z price and wait a few days/a week."
Well I've done that on quite a few items (even waiting up to 1-2 weeks or whenever I log the char. back in) and still don't get the item. Now this excludes recipes or salvage that I try to 'low-ball' to get a purple or what have you at a really cheap price. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I agree with pretty much everything else you said, MnV, except this:
Quote:
No one "needs" to use the markets. If you had JUST said "want" you'd've been right. But you had to say "want and need," didn't ya? |
Originally Posted by MeanNVicious
People [...] need to buy these things in our little closed market.
|
Quote:
Ive seen you play Cosmic Rae, I wouldn't brag about knowledge of how to play a blaster if I were you.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Yeah. Sucks being caught don't it?
|
Quote:
|
Actually you're the one with the comprehension difficulty. Nobody is talking about "driving into work" literally, it's an illustration of the situation. |
Quote:
|
Again, still utterly missing the point. Both do the job of getting you someplace equally as well. You're just attempting to argue that a luxury is necessary. Good luck with that. |
Quote:
| You're the one raging on me and trying to tell me you REQUIRE luxury items MERELY TO PLAY A GAME. |
Quote:
|
Okay, not QUITE sure where this verbal meandering is going. Feel free to come back and clarify. Are you stating that, because I (or someone else) have a build that's relatively "ridiculously" IO'ed (one that took me the best part of 6 months to put enhancements together for) that we're somehow hypocritical for telling people they can play perfectly fine on SOs? What do you THINK I (or the other person) was playing on prior to their high level of IO'ing? As for complaining about the game being "too easy", well, there's also the current issue of being unable to twink a task force's difficulty settings by level due to people using it to -1 tough task forces. Please feel free to come back and actually express what you "meant" in a coherent manner. |
Still waiting for you to show where I said "I want what I want and I want it now". in the context of the game.
There's a familiar tactic at work in this thread where someone seizes upon the most outrageous of the charges laid against them and contends with that, because the most outrageous tends to be obviously false. In this case, marketers are eager to find some nut who thinks they regularly drop-kick baby pandas down the stairs, and surprise, they can demolish his points.
Do I hate marketers? Of course not. I regard them with the same mild vexation as I do people who pop onto badging channels and say "7/8 AE farm team wanna come u guyz", or people who sign up for the Cavern and go AFK just when you're teleporting everyone to the eggs; a little piece of grit in the candyfloss of heroism.
Take common salvage. I figure five [1] times as much common salvage drops as anyone actually uses for crafting stuff. It'd be nice if we could just make a big pile of it on top of Posi's pointy little head [2] and take it when we wanted some, rather than occasionally waiting a day for a Circuit Board because some American thinks they're George Soros.
[1] This figure is a thumb in the air guess.
[2] I mean the in-game figure who hands out that hideous task force, not the developer, whose head is likely round and perfectly formed.
ETA, because I'd better: the use of expressions like "having to" is intended in the context of things one might wish to do in City of X and in no way indicates a life-or-death requirement such as that for food and water.
Quote:
The marketeers are insecure about what has become a situation where the tail (market mini game) wags the dog.
|
Originally Posted by Thunderforce
There's a familiar tactic at work in this thread where someone seizes upon the most outrageous of the charges laid against them and contends with that, because the most outrageous tends to be obviously false. In this case, marketers are eager to find some nut who thinks they regularly drop-kick baby pandas down the stairs, and surprise, they can demolish his points.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The marketeers are insecure about what has become a situation where the tail (market mini game) wags the dog.
|
Just so you know, not all marketeers are insecure about this issue. Just gonna collect my piles of inf and be on my way.
Not doing terribly badly so far. I know that it's going to take a while, and that some scarce or overpriced stuff will need to be bought straight up with merits. Still, a character meant to be optimized at Citadel and under levels shouldn't have major issues collecting merits.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison