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I just don't know what to make of how full of yourself seem to be.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The marketeers are insecure about what has become a situation where the tail (market mini game) wags the dog.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Can you please point out a specific example, instead of laying out a generality that can't be rebutted?|
Originally Posted by Thunderforce
There's a familiar tactic at work in this thread where someone seizes upon the most outrageous of the charges laid against them and contends with that, because the most outrageous tends to be obviously false. In this case, marketers are eager to find some nut who thinks they regularly drop-kick baby pandas down the stairs, and surprise, they can demolish his points.
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Can you please point out a specific example of a rational point being quietly sidestepped, that you would instead like to see answered specifically?
A great deal of time is spent here (in the forum in general) trying to counter outrageous charges because a great deal of outrageous charges are put forth.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Ah. Now we move on to ad hominem. Fail!|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Ive seen you play Cosmic Rae, I wouldn't brag about knowledge of how to play a blaster if I were you.
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Okay! Let's clear the air yet again. I never claimed to be an authority on playing any AT. To be honest, most of my playstyle outside of melee SUCKS. Doesn't mean I don't understand the game.
Again, you got so caught up in proving me "wrong" that you completely ignored the point of the argument and attacked something that was simply there to show how off-focus you are.
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| Yes it is just wrong. It is repeatedly infinitely incredibly wrong. Driving into work is a forced activity that you do because you have to, this is a game that you play because you want to. |
Trying to threadjack the argument by fixating on a metaphor, rather than what the metaphor represents is...dumb.
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| This is a game, FUN is a necessity. |
I had fun tonight in PVP on my SoA Bane. Got the living **** kicked out of me. But still had fun. My build is NOT set up for PVP. In fact, it isn't even laid out with a full set of standard IOs. I have two partial sets in there. 4 Red Fortune and 3 Kinetic Crash. Everything else is either SO or common IO.
You're essentially arguing that YOU cannot have fun unless you have a pimped-out build. And you're ******** about the fact that you can't get it for cheap.
My sympathy for you is something less than a tau muon.[/quote[
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| I really don't know what would qualify as coherent to a man who thinks having things he said as being wrong constitutes some major victory and thinks see I have drawn a picture constitutes argument. |
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The marketeers are insecure about what has become a situation where the tail (market mini game) wags the dog.
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Well then get to wagging Wolfie!
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Fun IS subjective. But if someone wants to play a style where they play 1, one, toon for years and wants to wait for pieces they get in missions or place bids over years to build a toon then why can't i play a style where i like to make several toons at once and level them and IO them as fast as i want? Why is YOUR fun more important than mine? See, subjective is the key term here. Nothing makes the way YOU want to play more important than the way I want to play. My 15$ holds the same current value as your 15$.
That's why we need more drops, so that EVERYONE has a place where they can enjoy what they like to do as long as it's not exploiting or cheating.
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Which is easy to do. Finding such people, I mean, not the drop-kicking. Baby pandas are too squirmy to kick easily; they tend to get lopsided and go off the side of your foot. But it's very easy to find people whose definition of flipping is:|
Originally Posted by Thunderforce
marketers are eager to find some nut who thinks they regularly drop-kick baby pandas down the stairs
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1. Kill and eat puppy dogs.
2. ?
3. Profit at the expense of casual players!
And those people hate marketeers and the market and everyone and everything nearby. And that is the original point of this thread.
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| Take common salvage. I figure five [1] times as much common salvage drops as anyone actually uses for crafting stuff. |
Right now I'm seeing 9,324 demonic threat reports for sale and not one single bid. That's a huge pile of unwanted salvage. If you want one, or a hundred, or a thousand of them... come and get them. If you want a circuit board, then you have to stand in line with all of the other people who want to craft level 35 recharge reduction IO's. Right at the moment, those enhancements are selling for 500,000 inf. And the salvage is only 11,000 inf? It would be a bargain at 10 times the price.
Sure, maybe there is one guy who thinks he's George Soros and he buys up everything you need for crafting just before you buy it. Or maybe there are 1,000 people who want to craft the same thing you do, but they go to the market just before you did.
Think of it this way. 1 seller shows up at the market. 1 buyer shows up at the market. They make a deal. But it's like flipping coins - it doesn't alternate between heads and tails. Sometimes you get three heads in a row. That's like having three sellers show up in a row. When a buyer comes along, prices will be low. But then you might get five tails in a row. Now you have buyers standing around waiting for something to buy. Prices go up.
Flip a coin a thousand times and see what the longest streak is of both heads and tails. That's how far up and down the price will go during an average day of buyers and sellers randomly walking into WW.
(I don't actually know how many transactions take place per day per item on the market, but the last 5 sales of circuit boards fit into a 2 minute time frame. Let's suppose we get only 1 sale per minute around the clock. There are 1,440 minutes in a day. That's a lot of transactions, with a lot of room for things to go up or down.)
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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You keep losing sight of the fact that IO sets are luxuries.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Fun IS subjective. But if someone wants to play a style where they play 1, one, toon for years and wants to wait for pieces they get in missions or place bids over years to build a toon then why can't i play a style where i like to make several toons at once and level them and IO them as fast as i want?
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You also keep losing sight of the fact that the market is just that. A market. Not a store.
Nobody's saying you can't IO a toon or a dozen toons.
But you need to realize that you are not and never were guaranteed to get the stuff you want in very short order at very low prices. The market just does not work that way.
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| Why is YOUR fun more important than mine? |
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| See, subjective is the key term here. Nothing makes the way YOU want to play more important than the way I want to play. My 15$ holds the same current value as your 15$. |
You're, in effect, dictating HOW I play the game.
When I'm telling you to play the market, PVE a bit, and bid conservatively, those are SUGGESTIONS. If you don't follow them, you're essentially DOOMED to paying "you could buy a small country for that" prices.
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| That's why we need more drops, so that EVERYONE has a place where they can enjoy what they like to do as long as it's not exploiting or cheating. |
I'm not saying a modest increase in drops wouldn't help the market, but it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to the "gotta have it NAO" crowd.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I just don't know what to make of how full of yourself seem to be.
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I really don't know how to convey the incredible levels of bemusement I glean from these forums or the dread when I wonder what similar belief systems I may have inadvertently subscribed to.
Lets look at some of the "beliefs" that have been held on this forum.
1. Flippers don't raise prices
2. Flippers can't raise prices above the equilibrium price profitably (equilibrium price defined as the point where it is no longer profitable to
try and raise prices beyond)
3. Flippers can't raise prices above the equilibrium point profitably for long.
4. The random roll is a better deal than the direct purchase (At the time you would actually lose about 3k/merit if you went with random rolls over specific purchase and that was just considering the pool C universe)
5. The devs got it right merits should not be tradeable (coincidentally what this does is dump items into the hands of people who don't know what their real value, especially true if they are taking the random roll)
6. When supply dried up, giant reverse merits should be traded. (Coincidentally would have benefitted greatly people with multiple accounts or the ability and desire to create level locked characters to hit particular niches.
6, was like watching scenes from 1984, when the very people who had been so enamored of 5 did an about face and the board chimed in like a cadre of Rush Limbaugh ditto heads to go along with it.
7. You don't need ios or sets to play the game. Maybe so but its what the game is about these days.
8. Now we are back at a resurgence of the, if you don't like/want/have an aptitude to play the market mini game well you are lazy stupid and have a giant sense of entitlement. This one crops up periodically its a little chilling. Usually its in response to someone who posts that they aren't having fun in the game and they feel rightly or wrongly that the market is the cause.
Then we come to this thread "Are we that hated"
If you feel the need to ask the answer is probably yes.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Ah. Now we move on to ad hominem. Fail!
Okay! Let's clear the air yet again. I never claimed to be an authority on playing any AT. To be honest, most of my playstyle outside of melee SUCKS. Doesn't mean I don't understand the game. |
Oh please you said something obviously wrong, I pointed it out and moved on to the larger fallacies in your argument, then you proclaimed "it was all part of your grand plan". Otay.
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| Again, you got so caught up in proving me "wrong" that you completely ignored the point of the argument and attacked something that was simply there to show how off-focus you are. |
If you feel that people actually reading what you write and correcting the factual errors proves you correct you are seriously in error.
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Maybe YOU are forced to drive into work. The fact stands. You can do an activity in a modest manner or in a blatantly "conspicuous consumption" manner. Trying to threadjack the argument by fixating on a metaphor, rather than what the metaphor represents is...dumb. |
Lets try to make it a little bit more clear
Ferrari = Fun
Yugo != Fun (well for most people)
Waiting around forever to get IOs != Fun
Going to work != Fun
This is entertainment, entertainment = FUN, Entertainment != Going to work (for most people)
Comparing going to work to the game = FAIL
Hope that helps.
[/quote]
In this game FUN is a SUBJECTIVE term.
I had fun tonight in PVP on my SoA Bane. Got the living **** kicked out of me. But still had fun. My build is NOT set up for PVP. In fact, it isn't even laid out with a full set of standard IOs. I have two partial sets in there. 4 Red Fortune and 3 Kinetic Crash. Everything else is either SO or common IO.
You're essentially arguing that YOU cannot have fun unless you have a pimped-out build. And you're ******** about the fact that you can't get it for cheap.
My sympathy for you is something less than a tau muon.[/quote]
No I am saying many people are repeatedly saying they aren't having fun. You just are pointedly not listening.
And once again
Show me where I said
"You're essentially arguing that YOU cannot have fun unless you have a pimped-out build. And you're ******** about the fact that you can't get it for cheap."
Seriously do you have a reading/learning disability or do you just get off attributing things people didn't say to them.
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| And still bubbling over the fact that the argument was simply there to show you're not even willing to argue the real point. That you don't NEED this stuff. You simply want it. |
A wonderful litany.
#1) See my rebuttal to #'s 2 and 3, as it is now fairly well settled that the correct statement is that flippers don't generally raise prices above the equilibrium price
#2) That is not the definition of equilibrium price
#3) Given the correct definition of equilibrium price, this is correct, though "for long" is a function of the transaction rate of the item.
#4) I can't refute this, as I never did the analysis.
#5) I've never seen an argument that made sense for me why tradeable ones are better. I don't remember seeing one from you, and you seem to have one, so I'd be interested in hearing it. (A different thread wouldn't be a terrible idea, though.)
#6) I don't understand the term "reverse merits". Typo for reserve? Trading merits? I think maybe I'm missing the context or full statement here.
#7) Is your opinion, and it's not in line with what a lot of people in game are doing. Pay attention to people's set bonuses. The forums are not neccessarily a good sample population for what the broader player base thinks the game is about.
#8) There's no resurgance of this, because it's never gone away. I still believe firmly that it's true. You're the one that's claimed in the past that people who don't exhibit market aptitude skills actually lack the capacity to do so, a position I find vastly more insulting than the one that they don't have enough interest to do so, or have an overactive sense of entitlement.
Now, with that response out of the way... what, exactly, does your litany there have to do with "marketeer" insecurity or the the named tail wagging the named dog?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Actually, I think most of them don't CARE. I sure don't.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The marketeers are insecure about what has become a situation where the tail (market mini game) wags the dog.
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The market is what it is. If it gets changed, people will adapt and life will go on.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Nothing it was a reply to |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
A wonderful litany.
Now, with that response out of the way... what, exactly, does your litany there have to do with "marketeer" insecurity or the the named tail wagging the named dog? |
Code:
I just don't know what to make of how full of yourself seem to be.
Just some replies
#1) See my rebuttal to #'s 2 and 3, as it is now fairly well settled that the correct statement is that flippers don't generally raise prices above the equilibrium price
The original and nearly religious stand on this forum was "Flippers don't raise prices" There have been endless threads with people trying to prove it.
#2) That is not the definition of equilibrium price
That was the fallout of the terms used by Smurphy in his challenge. Do you claim to have forgotten this brickbat that had been used on everyone who complained that flippers raise prices ?
#4) I can't refute this, as I never did the analysis.
#5) I've never seen an argument that made sense for me why tradeable ones are better. I don't remember seeing one from you, and you seem to have one, so I'd be interested in hearing it. (A different thread wouldn't be a terrible idea, though.)
My argument was pretty simple, tradeable merits offer players greater choice in how they use or don't use their merits.
#6) I don't understand the term "reverse merits". Typo for reserve? Trading merits? I think maybe I'm missing the context or full statement here.
comma left out: Giant reverse, "Merits should be traded".
#7) Is your opinion, and it's not in line with what a lot of people in game are doing. Pay attention to people's set bonuses. The forums are not neccessarily a good sample population for what the broader player base thinks the game is about.
On this we can only agree to disagree or start throwing anecdotes at each other.
#8) There's no resurgance of this, because it's never gone away. I still believe firmly that it's true. You're the one that's claimed in the past that people who don't exhibit market aptitude skills actually lack the capacity to do so, a position I find vastly more insulting than the one that they don't have enough interest to do so, or have an overactive sense of entitlement.
Actually the exact position I took was because it is easy for you don't assume it is easy for others. Resurgence refers to its use as a talking point.
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No, we DON'T need the game to be like that. *YOU* want it like that.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Fun IS subjective. But if someone wants to play a style where they play 1, one, toon for years and wants to wait for pieces they get in missions or place bids over years to build a toon then why can't i play a style where i like to make several toons at once and level them and IO them as fast as i want? Why is YOUR fun more important than mine? See, subjective is the key term here. Nothing makes the way YOU want to play more important than the way I want to play. My 15$ holds the same current value as your 15$.
That's why we need more drops, so that EVERYONE has a place where they can enjoy what they like to do as long as it's not exploiting or cheating. |
If everything was easy to obtain, many players would simply lose interest and the game population would suffer.
It's not about what *YOU* want or what *I* want. It's about what the devs believe is best for the game. Sure, they could be wrong, but their years of experience aren't invalidated by a group shouting "GIMME GIMME GIMME."
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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This belief is correct. Are there any people who drive prices up? Absolutely. But they're not the flippers. Flipping doesn't work as well when prices are climbing. For a flipper to do anything that drives prices up would be the height of stupidity.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Lets look at some of the "beliefs" that have been held on this forum.
1. Flippers don't raise prices |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
My definition is fun is that I and I alone get a big "I WIN" button that I can use to do whatever I want whenever I want. Need a rare purple IO? I WIN! Need to have an uber PVP build? I WIN! Since the game doesn't give this to me, there is obviously a conspiracy by the devs and ebil people to ruin my fun.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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A flipper lowers the availability low priced goods and raises the supply of higher priced goods. Their action raises prices.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
This belief is correct. Are there any people who drive prices up? Absolutely. But they're not the flippers. Flipping doesn't work as well when prices are climbing. For a flipper to do anything that drives prices up would be the height of stupidity.
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Keep telling yourself this. The fact is, you latched onto the one thing and essentially ignored the point being made. Whether I intended it or not is beside the point.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Oh please you said something obviously wrong, I pointed it out and moved on to the larger fallacies in your argument, then you proclaimed "it was all part of your grand plan". Otay.
I corrected your misstatement. It shows I actually read and tried to understand your miasma of a post. |
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| It is pretty obvious you don't understand the metaphor you are trying to use. |
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Lets try to make it a little bit more clear Ferrari = Fun Yugo != Fun (well for most people) Waiting around forever to get IOs != Fun Going to work != Fun |
Ferrari: Gets you where you're going.
Yugo: Gets you where you're going.
Thus, is a Ferrari NECESSARY to get you where you're going? NO.
I'm not arguing nebulous (and subjective) "fun" factor.
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| Comparing going to work to the game = FAIL |
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| No I am saying many people are repeatedly saying they aren't having fun. You just are pointedly not listening. |
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"You're essentially arguing that YOU cannot have fun unless you have a pimped-out build. And you're ******** about the fact that you can't get it for cheap." |
Sorry, not playing that game son.
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| Seriously do you have a reading/learning disability or do you just get off attributing things people didn't say to them. |
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| Actually I have it. |
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Posi! They found us out! We need a black-bag team to get them off the forums NAO!
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Originally Posted by Smurch
My definition is fun is that I and I alone get a big "I WIN" button that I can use to do whatever I want whenever I want. Need a rare purple IO? I WIN! Need to have an uber PVP build? I WIN! Since the game doesn't give this to me, there is obviously a conspiracy by the devs and ebil people to ruin my fun.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
This whole topic is TL;DR
However from the first post...this is all I can say....It's a free market. I market the way I want to. People do NOT HAVE TO BUY them at those prices. So...I will keep making my inf and smile 
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Vs |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Keep telling yourself this. The fact is, you latched onto the one thing and essentially ignored the point being made. Whether I intended it or not is beside the point.
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1st there is no blaster that can one shot an even con or higher bosses unaided even at the damage cap blizzard won't do it (assuming all the ticks actually hit and the boss stays still for the whole 15 seconds) Now back to the actual points The game is balanced around 1 hero = 3 even con minions. Or some such equally enjoyable point. That isn't a Ferrari its a Yugo. |
Yeah I really latched on to that. I latched onto that so hard I even noted it wasn't relevant.
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| No, I understand it fine. |
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| So do you. But you're in such an all-fired hurry to be "right" in this argument that you're doing the equivalent of holding your hands over your ears and shouting at the top of your lungs. |
Just who is holding their hands over their ears and shouting here ?
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Are you actually this obtuse IRL? Ferrari: Gets you where you're going. Yugo: Gets you where you're going. Thus, is a Ferrari NECESSARY to get you where you're going? NO. I'm not arguing nebulous (and subjective) "fun" factor. |
Game = fun
Paying for game = expected to yield fun.
Not as much fail as missing the point that I'm not talking about going to work. Maybe once that penetrates...
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| And I'm saying, once again, that I'm not responsible for you having fun. And insisting I modify my behavior in-game so that you CAN have fun is...well...STUPID is about the kindest term I can use. |
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Ah. Down to the tired old saw of "show me exactly where I wrote these exact words or you're wrong." Sorry, not playing that game son. |
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| Seriously, you need to stop being so literal when attempting (and failing) to win an argument with object lessons that may or may not be directly related to what is being talked about. |
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| I'm sure you'd be a happier person if this were true. |
Question: What is Another_Fan a fan of? And who is the fan before him?
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Tell that to the people actually wanting the pieces and having to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait........ for bids to actually fill. AND to fill at "their" reasonable price. OH, wait, what's reasonable again? It's whatever they ARE MADE to HAVE to pay in order to even get the damned pieces from WW, that may go months without even filling. You're right. It's not a store, therefore we are made to buy the "luxuries" from the people that can play the game for 5 hours a day and decide what "reasonable" is.
On a side note, i just crafted 5 Posi's, Oblits, and Decimations at level 35 from a toon that i had to stop in order to get those recipes. Checked WW. Guess what? 0 for sell. Hm. I'd never have thought. I just threw them in a bin for future use instead of placing on the market for someone that can actually use them now. Don't seem quite right, does it?
I'm not trying to dictate how you play, but i'm already being made to play your way if i choose to take part in what i like to do and IO toons. More recipes for sale would not kill the game. I think the game was fine before WW was intro'd. therefore, it'd be fine with people actually having more recipes to IO more toons. To say it wouldn't, well, sir, you can't prove that Hyper.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Huh. There's been some kind of massive cultural shift recently?
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Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
? Very confusing here - since I have been actively part of the community, PvPers are the first to report exploits that will be harmful to PvP.
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Of thos hundreds and hundreds of encounters, I would estimate that roughly almost all were marked by a pronounced effort to exploit rules, situations, and game mechanics on the part of the people I encountered.
Stucking just to COH/V, aside from social engineering type exploitive behavior (asking a question and then attacking when you open the chat window, for example, or porting a newbie on your team into NPC enemies, lying outright about one's character in Arena matches, hospital camping) some example of game exploits fully embraced by the PVP community I have encountered include Hurricane-pinning, Teleporting-into-geometry, the use of HOs to enhance unintended properties, the Vengeance stacking bug, PVP IO farming, and pretty much any and every other rules quirk you've ever heard of.
Right after the Arenas came out, I made level-limited games that I thought would keep players with HOs out (not realizing that it would not be obvious when a player auto-exemplared) because back then HOs gave markedly better bonuses than any SO (to each value, not just enhancing 2 or 3 values but enhancing them further). Castle himself said HOs would be important to PVP. In the game names and pre-game chat, I specified that I was looking for non-HOed players who were actually level 35 or whatever, and not exemplared 50s. These guys would agree to the match on sporting principles, cream me, then after they left I'd discover that they were indeed 50 when I saw them around the zone, or in some cases I'd ask, "how'd you shrug that off?" and they'd say, "HOs."
I realize your experiences may differ, but in the majority of player-to-player encounters that lasted long enough for me to realize they were even occurring, the other player(s) exploited the rules as much as they could and acted solely for immediate advantage in all other ways [i.e., socially], utterly without concern for sportsmanship, an interesting or fair fight, or any concern at all except to notch the kill at any cost (and then, all too often, be as unpleasantly rude and childish as possible in chat or broadcast.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Huh. There's been some kind of massive cultural shift recently?
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Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
? Very confusing here - since I have been actively part of the community, PvPers are the first to report exploits that will be harmful to PvP.
|
Of thos hundreds and hundreds of encounters, I would estimate that roughly almost all were marked by a pronounced effort to exploit rules, situations, and game mechanics on the part of the people I encountered.
Sticking just to COH/V, aside from social engineering type exploitative behavior (asking a question and then attacking when you open the chat window, for example, or porting a newbie on your team into NPC enemies, lying outright about one's character in Arena matches, hospital camping) some example of game exploits fully embraced by the PVP community I have encountered include Hurricane-pinning, Teleporting-into-geometry, the use of HOs to enhance unintended properties, the Vengeance stacking bug, hopping to negate ground patches, PVP IO farming, and pretty much any and every other rules quirk you've ever heard of.
Right after the Arenas came out, I made level-limited games that I thought would keep players with HOs out (not realizing that it would not be obvious when a player auto-exemplared) because back then HOs gave markedly better bonuses than any SO (to each value, not just enhancing 2 or 3 values but enhancing them further). Castle himself said HOs would be important to PVP. In the game names and pre-game chat, I specified that I was looking for non-HOed players who were actually level 35 or whatever, and not exemplared 50s. These guys would agree to the match on sporting principles, cream me, then after they left I'd discover that they were indeed 50 when I saw them around the zone, or in some cases I'd ask, "how'd you shrug that off?" and they'd say, "HOs."
I realize your experiences may differ, but in the majority of player-to-player encounters that lasted long enough for me to realize they were even occurring, the other player(s) exploited the rules as much as they could and acted solely for immediate advantage in all other ways [i.e., socially], utterly without concern for sportsmanship, an interesting or fair fight, or any concern at all except to notch the kill at any cost (and then, all too often, be as unpleasantly rude and childish as possible in chat or broadcast.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."