New Blaster Secondary: Martial Manipulation
By
Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2010-02-13 18:33 in Suggestions and Ideas
I think it would be better to discuss it here, where we can freely talk about possible synergies with Dual Pistols. For example, Targeting Drone in Devices gives a small boost to AR's Sniper Rifle. Do we want to look at something similar for this proposed new secondary? (And let's face it, there are Devs who are paying much more closer attention to the Dual Pistols beta forums then they are to the Suggestions forums, AND those are the Devs that we would want to notice this topic.)
any secondary with dual pistol would be great..i do mean any new secondary
as Ood Sigma said....We will sing to you, Doctor. The universe will sing you to your sleep. This song is ending. But the story never ends.
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Even Poop Manipulation?
Originally Posted by Cien_Fuegos
any secondary with dual pistol would be great..i do mean any new secondary
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What does CO have to do with this?
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Even Poop Manipulation? |
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I mean a stealth power that doesn't suppress the stealth when you attack. This is not like power pool Stealth, which loses all of its stealth when you attack, leaving you with only a minor defense boost. Dark Armor, Dark Miasma, Illusion, Energy Aura, Cold Domination, Storm Summoning, and maybe some others I've missed all have a stealth power that doesn't suppress when you attack. In fact as I said, every AT except Blasters has access to at least one such power.
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Blasters have a stealth power in Devices. I don't know what a non-suppressing stealth power is.
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As someone else said, Devices gets a power that does just that. |
Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
I mean a stealth power that doesn't suppress the stealth when you attack. This is not like power pool Stealth, which loses all of its stealth when you attack, leaving you with only a minor defense boost. Dark Armor, Dark Miasma, Illusion, Energy Aura, Cold Domination, Storm Summoning, and maybe some others I've missed all have a stealth power that doesn't suppress when you attack. In fact as I said, every AT except Blasters has access to at least one such power.
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Cloaking Device: The Cloaking Device allows you to use a LCD body coating become partially invisible. While Cloaked you can only be seen at very close range. IF you attack while Cloaked, you will be discovered. Even if discovered, you are hard to see but will retain some of your defense bonus to all attacks. Unlike some stealth powers, the Cloaking Device has no movement penalty. The Cloaking device will not work with any other form of Concealment power such as Shadow Fall or Steamy Mist.
My AR/Dev has it, it stacks nicely with a IO stealth.
Also this thread has gone many places I never thought it would. Hopefully have time in a bit for more of a post.
My thoughts:
1. Thunder Kick Melee Moderate, Mez
2. Hide - +Def
4. Caltrops Range AoE, -Speed
10. Focus Chi Self, +Dmg, + To Hit
16. Crane Kick Melee High
20. Kuji In Sha (Focus Mind) Self Heal, +tox res
28. Dragon Tail - PBAoE
35. Blinding Powder Sleep, Confuse, -ToHit, -Perception
28. Eagle Claw Melee Extreme
@Turbo_Starr
/signed but just call it combat training. Devices doesn't follow the "manipulation" name theme, martial arts shouldn't either. Also, I see people suggesting defensive powers, which is a big nono for blaster secondaries.
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But blasters device secondary has "cloaking device" which grants 1.75 to base.
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Originally Posted by Polydeuces
Also, I see people suggesting defensive powers, which is a big nono for blaster secondaries.
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@Turbo_Starr
I haven't read all the posts in this thread so I don't know if someone has already mentioned it, but has any one else seen the movie "Equilibrium" with Christian Bale? In that movie they used some pretty cool gun/martial arts style moves. A DP blaster with some kind of martial arts secondary would be sweet! In the movie they called it Gun Kata. I'm not sure it that name is trademarked, but that would be a cool name for the secondary powerset. Consider me /signed! Duel Pistols/Gun Kata FTW!!
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You're very late to the party!
Originally Posted by JFreezy
I haven't read all the posts in this thread so I don't know if someone has already mentioned it, but has any one else seen the movie "Equilibrium" with Christian Bale? In that movie they used some pretty cool gun/martial arts style moves. A DP blaster with some kind of martial arts secondary would be sweet! In the movie they called it Gun Kata. I'm not sure it that name is trademarked, but that would be a cool name for the secondary powerset. Consider me /signed! Duel Pistols/Gun Kata FTW!!
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Yeah but people are also recommending things that go a bit beyond that >_>|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Starr
But blasters device secondary has "cloaking device" which grants 1.75 to base.
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I personally feel defensive powers for blasters should remain primarily something you get as an epic power.
A lot of people are also venturing away from the natural theme. Its not meant to be a "gadget" set. I hesitated for a while before using Caltrops, because its a "device". I will admit some of the other ideas I've seen here aren't bad.
But I guess its just me, I don't see pulling off a stealth type power as a natural without some sort of gimmick/gadget. A minor version of Quickness renamed as combat training wouldn't be bad though. And I could see a version of Aim that was renamed as combat awareness that increased your accuracy.
if this is meant to be a compliment to Dual Pistols, how about we toss in a boost range clone instead of blinding powder or sleep powder, i've toyed around with it and a Range boost helps out DP alot.
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Quickness sounds like a good, attractive, and adaptable power for a blaster secondary. I'll meekly mention that I'm not sure that another version of Aim in a blaster secondary is balanced when the primary set will already have it.|
Originally Posted by ransim
A minor version of Quickness renamed as combat training wouldn't be bad though. And I could see a version of Aim that was renamed as combat awareness that increased your accuracy.
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Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker
if this is meant to be a compliment to Dual Pistols, how about we toss in a boost range clone instead of blinding powder or sleep powder, i've toyed around with it and a Range boost helps out DP alot.
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Oh, Aim was probably the wrong thing to say. Sorry half asleep and had a long long day at work so my wording is way off. |
Originally Posted by twelfth
Quickness sounds like a good, attractive, and adaptable power for a blaster secondary. I'll meekly mention that I'm not sure that another version of Aim in a blaster secondary is balanced when the primary set will already have it.
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Let me give my sleep addled brain a moment to try and quantify a bit more what i meant.
I think I was thinking more along the lines of the veat power, combat training: offensive that gives you an auto buff to accuracy. But maybe something that gave a minor buff to accuracy and perception. Kinda like you've obviously spend tons of time training so you're more aware of your surroundings. Could even be a toggle like targeting drone is rather then a auto power.
What about something like this? (not necessarily the names I chose)
1. Thunder Kick Melee Moderate, Mez
2. Combat Training - auto self + acc
Helps negate the lack of aim in the primary, plus its an auto power.
4. Focus Chi Self, +Dmg, + To Hit
10. Mental Toughness - auto self +res + speed
Thinking along the lines of SRs quickness. I would imagine that recharge and speed would be beneficial in any DP character. Think cowboys!
16. Crane Kick Melee High
20. Kuji In Sha (Combat Recovery) Self Heal, + tox res
28. Dragon Tail - PBAoE
35. Power Boost (Focus Mind) + special
Would be beneficial for the stuns/debuffs in the primary and secondary.
28. Eagle Claw Melee Extreme
@Turbo_Starr
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I think this is in line with what I put in my Combat Manip design with "Combat Senses". Obviously not the same sense it was a debuff on To Hit, but workable as well. The toggle sounds like it would be more like Tactical Training: Leadership. It's consistent with blaster secondaries that offer a toggle. TT:L is a team buff though. Don't know how keeping that or modifiying it to self-buff only would affect balance and structure of Blaster sets.
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Originally Posted by ransim
I think I was thinking more along the lines of the veat power, combat training: offensive that gives you an auto buff to accuracy. But maybe something that gave a minor buff to accuracy and perception. Kinda like you've obviously spend tons of time training so you're more aware of your surroundings. Could even be a toggle like targeting drone is rather then a auto power.
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This, entirely. Why do people keep trying to stuff defensive powers and self heals into this proposed set? Devices' Cloaking Device give a very minor defensive buff, less even than you would get for taking Maneuvers (and is mainly only there because stealth is so important in the history of device using comic book characters).|
Originally Posted by Polydeuces
/signed but just call it martial training. Devices doesn't follow the "manipulation" name theme, martial arts shouldn't either. Also, I see people suggesting defensive powers, which is a big nono for blaster secondaries.
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Seriously, Ransim's original post is the best idea I've seen in the whole thread. It just needs to have Caltrops and Focus Chi swapped around (since Build Up powers always come in at 16*).
*Except in Energy Manipulation, where honestly I've always felt it comes too soon.
I also did like Twelfth's idea for the "Bola Snare" ranged immobilize power as the level 1 power, but I don't think the set would suffer without it.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Call it Combat Manipulation |
Originally Posted by ransim
So lame name aside
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Still trying to get Pistol Scrappers in through the back door, eh?
Give it up, folks. I wanted it too, believe me, but the Devs have made it abundantly clear over the years that it's not going to happen.
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I did call it a pipe dream. I will admit initially I was "not going to happen" on the idea. But really the more I thought on it and saw the discussion go further the more I realized it wasn't too far off considering how /nrg is set up for blasters.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Still trying to get Pistol Scrappers in through the back door, eh?
Give it up, folks. I wanted it too, believe me, but the Devs have made it abundantly clear over the years that it's not going to happen. |
Only difference is kicks rather then punching.
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No no no, Pistol Blappers. There's a difference. |
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Still trying to get Pistol Scrappers in through the back door, eh?
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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I would love to see a few more secondary sets in the game - blasters definitely need some new ones IMO
That said I think that releasing a primary and secondary at the same time can cause the odd issue... if you remember when dual blades and willpower were let loose on the lumpen proletariat, you couldn't move for DB/WPs in their variants. At least spreading it out, they get a bit of variation 
Thelonious Monk
I support the general suggestion for a Martial Arts-themed secondary. however, I really, really dislike any of the ideas that include a web grenade-like power as the 1st tier choice. I personally cannot stand Web Grenade and hate that I am forced to take it so much that I avoid Devices altogether. Adding another set with Web Grenade as the buy-in power would be adding another set I have no use for. I'd much rather go with one of the Marital Arts kicks with reduced damage and increased secondary (Crane Kick = KB, Axe Kick = Immob, Thunder Kick = Disorient). With Power Customization allowing for punch animations, perhaps they should be renamed into 'Strike' instead of 'Kick'.
Obviously numbers for this set would need to be modified to match blaster damage and effects rather then a stalker or a scrapper. This set is also based on a conversation I had early on in Beta with a few other people in the beta testers channel, unfortunately I don't remember names.
And no I'm not asking for this right now, I'm just presenting the idea for consideration. I think having dual pistols now we really do need more blaster secondaries. And I would personally love something thats more natural and less tech then devices.
Feel free to flame as necessary ^_^ I'm allowed my pipe dreams!
Martial Manipulation
1 - Thunder Kick, Melee, Minor DMG(Smash), Foe Disorient
2 - Storm Kick, Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash)
4 - Focus Chi, Self +DMG, +To-Hit
10 - Crane Kick, Melee, High DMG(Smash), Foe Knockback
16 - Caltrops, Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Lethal), Foe -SPD, -Jump
20 - Cobra Strike, Melee, Minor DMG(Smash), Foe Disorient
28 - Smoke Flash, PBAoE, Foe Placate
35 - Blinding Powder, Ranged (Cone), Foe Sleep, Confuse, -To-Hit, -Perception
38 - Dragon's Tail, PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Smash), Foe Knockdown
Notes:
I like this but I disagree with the order of powers and a few other things but for the most part, I agree.
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