Things that are more difficult redside, and hence more fun.

Normal human morality is to not harm other people if they're not harming you - and to help people who are being harmed.

No, there is a basic human morality that applies to everyone.

Not at all - there's universal good, and universal evil - if you take a gun and go outside and shoot the first person you see, then there's no way that can be defended as subjective in any way at all.

GR will change your mind

Human nature in its roots is evil. It is the reason why laws get bended and the reason why wars are made.


I'm not saying evil is right, but in a game I have to admire the bad guys in it. They are being truthful to the nature that is man and thus are alot more fun to me.


Any game I can play a hero, but only this game I can play evil in this way.

No it's not - evil is something you do - it's not something you're born to do.

No, there isn't.



No, there isn't.

But i'm not going to argue these points with you because you"believe" in both these concepts. You couldn't possibly engage in any meaningful debate. (My definition of meaningful being we come to a conclusion that cannot be refuted.)

I'll stick to numbers.

Yes, there is

Absolute good and absolute evil exist.

Yes, random murder is universally considered evil. If only all questions of ethics were so simple.

Unfortunately, there are a million other issues over which opinions are greatly divided. Although I enjoy eating hamburgers, I respect the validity of the perspective of the vegan or the Hindu that say I'm immoral for doing so.

But it's a foundation - it's an absolute thing that everyone can agree on.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

That Aura mission CoV side is definitely tough. It's the first time you run into Succubi for most characters.

I do like the "defeat a hero and steal their cape". It feels like a rite of passage, which is what it is supposed to be.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

I'll work for whoever gives me the shinier badges (which probably means I'll do both Loyalist and Resistance storylines on one character)
Of course, IIRC they said that there'll be a badge for not switching sides which will be removed as soon as you switch sides once, but considering a side switch gives me access to more than one badge, I'm not to worried.

I didn't derail it. I replied to posts in the branching conversation. It's a lot like my brain -- each thought leads to five different others. Then my friends call me weird for piping up about tuna fish in a conversation about D&D.

Surprisingly, I've never had any issue with Kadabra Kill...

Where?

I would argue otherwise. While I wouldn't call random murder a good thing, I fail to see where it is explicitly "evil". Evil implies villainous intent. Completely random death doesn't have intent behind it. I would probably call the act of premeditated murder "evil"; but random murder is about as evil as manslaughter.

What movie was it... The Box, I think...? The basic premise was that there was a box with a button inside. Pressing the button would award you $1,000,000... but one random person in the world would die because of your button press. It seems like a similar situation to me.

I think evil is entirely subjective. For example, throughout history, it's the losers of any conflict who are generally considered evil in the history books. Most people alive today would certainly call Hitler an evil person, but during his reign he (and many/most Aryan Germans) truly believed that he was helping Germany regain its rightful place in the world, and making the world a better place for it. From their subjective viewpoint, they were doing Good, and everyone trying to stop them was being Evil.

The people we label as "terrorists" in today's world believe they are making the world a better place, and that we are evil for trying to stop them. We believe they are destroying society's values and infrastructure, and are evil for doing so. Obviously, we're the good guys for stopping them. That is much like the situation in Praetoria -- the majority have it good, while a terrorist minority believe that the majority is wrong, and go to violent extremes to prove their point.

During a conflict, all sides believe that they are doing Good, and their opponent(s) are Evil. After a conflict, the history books call the victors Good and the losers Evil.

If and when the Resistance topples Emperor Cole's hold on Upsilon Beta 9-6 (with or without the aid of super-powered individuals from Primal Earth), it will be "proven" that the Resistance were the "good guys" all along, while the Loyalists were "evil". If and when the Resistance is annihilated (with or without the aid of super-powered individuals from Primal Earth), it will be "proven" that the Resistance were "evil", while the Loyalists were the "good guys".
(Of course, all of that is hypothetical, since it's unlikely that the Loyalists vs. Resistance storyline will ever be complete in order to maintain the MMO Status Quo)

Ok.













Now that we've covered that, back to the other topic

No - it's premeditated - you went and got your gun, then went outside with the intention of taking someone's life for no reason - it's absolute evil, and can't be defended as anything else.

Because good does win over evil most of the time - that's why we're still here, and haven't wiped ourselves out.

I'm pretty sure we'll have the fun of thrashing Tyrant on a TF -but it won't be a permanent victory - otherwise, GR would be quite short-lived
But even with no final victory for either side, by the end of the GR content, there's going to be no doubt as to who the good people are, and who the bad ones are

Whatever you want to call it, randomly shooting someone for no reason is NOT "premeditated".

You only say that because the victors in any conflict label themselves as the good guys. The history books generally color the victors as "good", so you claim that good wins over evil. That's not the case; rather, someone wins, and that someone gets to write the history. Because their opponent isn't around any more. Of course they're going to make themselves look good when they do it.

Good doesn't win over Evil. Victors call themselves Good and call the losers Evil.

Again, I doubt that. The entire premise of GR seems to be "shades of gray". Sure, if you only run the Resistance storyline (which I assume you will, GG), you'll probably end up seeing Cole and his men as Evil. Hell, you'll probably get that from your first Resistance contact. Run the Loyalist storyline and you'll get the other side of the coin. Run both (as I, and many others, will do), and you'll see that the Good and Evil in Praetoria isn't quite so clear-cut.

But it's not spontaneous - you have to decide to kill someone, go fetch your gun, go outside, find the nearest person, aim, and pull the trigger - there's a thought process, with steps, and at each step you've got the option to stop - but you don't.
It's pre-planned murder.

But the world is a better place than it was in the past - so good is winning.

So Hero1 saying "the real threat isn't the Resistance, it's Tyrant, and what he's doing to humanity" doesn't sort of hint a little bit that the devs are maybe looking at the possibility that there is a clear line between good and evil in GR?

EDIT: And yes, I will be joining the Resistance
GR might be about choices, but the only one it throws up for me is what I should wear for infiltrating Tyran't domain - a retro-style catsuit, or a more glammed up outfit "Alias" style?

You have to go through all those steps in what they call "crimes of passion", and that's certainly not premeditated. By your reasoning, nothing that a human does (or, taken to its logical extreme, nothing that anything in the universe does, whether it be sentient or not, even if it's not even alive) is spontaneous.

If Hitler had won the War, and the world was dominated by Germany, and blond haired, blue eyed people were the government leaders and most common phenotype around, you (as in, the "you" that had grown up in such a world, not the "you" that I'm conversing with today) would be saying the exact same thing.

The citizens of Praetoria are saying the same thing as you are, too. Their world is much better today than it was before Marcus Cole took on the title of Emperor. Before, there was terror, destruction on a massive scale, and many were homeless and without food. Today, everyone has what they need and then some. Everyone is taken care of. Everyone is safe.

I agree, that the world today is better than it was 30 years ago. But that's because I've grown up in this world, and have been instilled with the values of this society. If history were altered -- no matter in what way you chose to alter it -- I would feel the same way, because I was brought up in that world. If we were born in a post apocalyptic dystopia, do you know what you and I would be saying? "This world is great -- we don't have nukes falling on us every day! "

That's because you think.