CoX repetitive?? Nooooooo :)


Airborne_Ninja

 

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To me, complaints of repetition are inevitable for a game that is meant to keep the same players entertained through multiple play session a week for years on end. The way to counteract this is with variety.

If a player plays 5 different characters from 1-50 with the same archetype/powersets, and with players of the same, you KNOW it will feel repetitive. Changing to new archetypes/powers will change this, as will teaming with different characters with new abilities.

If a player plays the same story arc 5 times in a row, you KNOW it will feel repetitive. Changing to doing 3 different arcs in 5 play sessions seems less so.

If a player has the same objective 5 times in a row, it feels repetitive. But if the game gives them different things they need to do,the play session feels varied enough to pass over the few times that objectives are similar.

If a player gets 5 different missions in a row on the exact same map, you KNOW it will feel repetitive. If they play 3 maps of different sets, it feels less so.

While the devs have addressed powers/archetypes/and stories, it does bring up a valid point. The developers have made very little effort to varry map tilesets: since launch, the number of archetypes has nearly tripled. Around 40 something new power sets have been made, not counting ancillary/patron pools. New stories are added, from single contacts to entire new zone's worth of content here and there. Way back when, they added new mission objectives./functionality. (defend/escort, etc.)

But new map tilesets? (Not unique maps) You know, the places to go to do things we do? Not much on this front. CoV gave 'new' sets, but the offices and such were simple color changes. Arachnos tilesets were new, and regularly used. Cimeroran tilesets were added, but were only used in a few new arcs outside of that zone. I do hope that devs make some new environments to be used game wide in old arcs and generic missions as well. Most everything in this game is done in a cave /sewer /office /warehouse /CoT /Council /Ship /Arachnos map. (Less so on the latter, blueside) It would actually freshen up the game play experience if everything happened on a cave/ sewer /office /warehouse /CoT /Ship /Council /Arachnos /mansion /museum /steampunk /apartment building /military bunker /skyscraper /factory map. Variety= less burn out. And I hate to say, it's a package thing. If you add new powers, new stories, but use old/similar objectives and environments, the text on top of it can't hide that to the player, and they can get bored of it.

And quite frankly, I'm not sure why adding new general use map tilesets seems so avoided. It is a bid different then new costume bits, art-wise, but it isn't that crazy.


 

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Originally Posted by dougnukem View Post
No more repetitive than threads like this...*shrugs*
Or more repetitive than people posting that a thread is redundant.... see what I did there?


 

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I'd hazard that we see a number of new sets when GR releases. And then afterwards, well, thats fair game.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
While the devs have addressed powers/archetypes/and stories, it does bring up a valid point. The developers have made very little effort to varry map tilesets: since launch, the number of archetypes has nearly tripled. Around 40 something new power sets have been made, not counting ancillary/patron pools. New stories are added, from single contacts to entire new zone's worth of content here and there. Way back when, they added new mission objectives./functionality. (defend/escort, etc.)

If you add new powers, new stories, but use old/similar objectives and environments, the text on top of it can't hide that to the player, and they can get bored of it.
Couldn't agree with this more... the whole post really but specifically what I've quoted. Not to mention that of the options that are there... caves of any variety (with exception to the one with extremely high ceilings) are a PITA to navigate and maintain a good view of.


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Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute

 

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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg View Post
Frownies are a sign of intelligence and wisdom.
Of COURSE the guy with the Alan Moore avatar would say THAT.


 

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Originally Posted by Westley View Post
Of COURSE the guy with the Alan Moore avatar would say THAT.
Deadpool: By the way, who IS Alan Moore?
*shot*
Deapool: Kidding!


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Westley View Post
The author of the article seems unfamiliar with the way the devs work. No Posi has not left us, and no WW has not "taken over". They are still in their same jobs doing their same roles. Posi's the boss, and WW is making content for the game.

Positron got too much aggro pulling AE, so WW is tanking now. Got it.





It's a joke, calm down.


 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
I'd hazard that we see a number of new sets when GR releases. And then afterwards, well, thats fair game.
Well, now that they have 3 conceptual artist and 3 environmental artists on the staff (compared to one each previously), they *better* have a slew of new tile sets for GR else I'll be the one screaming 'what have they been doing for the past year and a half?!'


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

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I like the repetitiveness personally. I enjoy the stuff COX lets us do, so I enjoy doing it over and over. I don't object to re-skins or new maps but I'd object to anything that makes the game tedious, like AI changes or anything that makes the game no longer relaxing and fun. It *is* a game after all.

Lewis

/minority report


Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan

 

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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
I'd love to see three major thing:
(A) More outdoor maps. Enough said. Heck, make some outdoor maps that aren't located in Rhode Island; say that the helicopter is taking you to a Central American jungle or an ice floe north of Canada or something...

(B) More styles of interior building. Not just offices but a few "museum" tilesets and logical maps. A hotel/apartment set where most of the doors are "closed" (painted like in the offices) but others are open to small apartment areas, kind of like the side rooms in the offices. Be great for "The building is on fire and full of Hellions... rescue the people!" style missions. A department store, a library... something that makes the city seem alive instead of the same generic office and warehouse over and over.

(C) Each villain faction should have its own "base" maps. If you're stopping a robbery, then you're in the appropriate building. If you're chasing the Skulls to their hide-out to rescue Lucy Dreamtime, then it should look like a place the Skulls have been hanging out in. Even if it's largely a couple of re-skinned warehouse or office (like the "Rave" warehouse or the Hellions "hide out" office with the sprayapint and Satanic altars). Some factions have this to some extent such as the Crey "Tech" maps but what about the Tsoo? Carnival? Family (Do heroes even see the casino maps blueside)? Sky Raiders (no recycled Crey maps, please)? Etc.
Agreed. Regarding casino maps...why can't heroes get any of the yellow caves? Or the CoV "nice" versions of offices? Mix those in.

As for the lab map, I liked what they did in making the Portal Corp version - it's pretty much the same thing, just in white. Of course you only see it what, one time (mission for Angus, I think)? Tint it something else besides blue just for kicks. Maybe use a few of the SG base skins. Use special skins like the Freakshow base and Lou's shop more than just once.


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Twenty levels later, you are still going through the warehouse. Or the office building. Or the sewers.

Can no one think of a better place to hatch their evil plans?
LOL> i guess not


 

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Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
I have only five words: "Defeat all enemies on boat".
It's only one, perhaps two missions, I forget if the Family one is defeat all. Stephanie has three missions that take place on a ship, and those are the only ship maps that you ever see hero side. It's definitely annoying that at least one is defeat all, especially since it has patrols, but that's about 5-8% of the content there.

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Originally Posted by gec72 View Post
Agreed. Regarding casino maps...why can't heroes get any of the yellow caves? Or the CoV "nice" versions of offices? Mix those in.

As for the lab map, I liked what they did in making the Portal Corp version - it's pretty much the same thing, just in white. Of course you only see it what, one time (mission for Angus, I think)? Tint it something else besides blue just for kicks. Maybe use a few of the SG base skins. Use special skins like the Freakshow base and Lou's shop more than just once.
The casino, bank lobby, and University offices with basement would make an excellent starting point for more varied maps. Stretch the Casino out, repaint it, and swap the gaming tables for other items and it could be a supermarket or restaurant. Banks could be excellent starts to build into movie theaters or any kind of bureaucratic office, like a Department of Motor Vehicles. The University offices with basement, that you only run into one time in the whole game, could be made into apartment building corridors or dorms, or even <shudders> realistic office buildings. I'd rather not see realistic office buildings because realistic office buildings are incredibly dull. If you've been in three office buildings in your life, you've probably seen everything any office building has to offer.

Oh, and if you are willing to put up with the endurance-fest that is Dr. Quaterfield, that Portal Corp. tech lab gets reused there.


"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."

 

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Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
I have only five words: "Defeat all enemies on boat".
Yeah, every time someone talks about how "great" Striga Isle is I cringe so hard I crack a tooth. Faultline, yes. Striga... NO! To HELL with Striga!


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
I like the repetitiveness personally. I enjoy the stuff COX lets us do, so I enjoy doing it over and over. I don't object to re-skins or new maps but I'd object to anything that makes the game tedious, like AI changes or anything that makes the game no longer relaxing and fun. It *is* a game after all.
And then there's that. It's good that we're complaining about repetitiveness and all, and more variety is always welcome, but we have to be careful not to suggest solutions to this that we're not going to like. People keep asking for more challenge, smarter AI, more complicated missions and so forth, but... You know, part of the fun of City of Heroes for me is familiarity and easy. I enjoy a game I can play without working too hard at it, and a game I can reasonably predict at least a step ahead of time. It gives me the kind of confidence that a strong hero would have, in that I know I can handle myself, and it's actually the better side of repetitiveness.

Here's how I see it working - if you're doing something repetitive but manage to find an easy, uninvolving way to do it, then it doesn't sting as much. As someone who does numbers for fun from time to time, sitting down to draw stats from Red Tomax, run them through a calculator and write them down in a text file is tedious, until I find my rhythm, at which point it's actually kind of fun to lose myself in the experience. It's the same way in City of Heroes. I enjoy getting so familiar with my characters that I can get "in the zone" and basically progress through hordes of enemies in a state of... Flow, I suppose. It's a state where I know everything my character has within memory without having to think back or check, I know what that character is capable of and how to use that, and so it's just a question of doing it.

It's been a while since I've read up on the theory of flow in games, but I remember it had to do with just the right balance between complexity and simplicity, as well as challenge and ease. To me, familiarity is what does this. When I only ever have to think, but never remember, look for references or fumble my fingers, that's when I like the game the most. Familiarity with my character, familiarity with the terrain and familiarity with my enemies is what this requires. Only when things start to flow in this way do I actually truly enjoy playing this game.

Cheaper AI, harder enemies, more complicated tasks... All of that yanks me out of the experience much in the same way as pausing a movie mid-way through a high drama scene to go take a leak. It's hard to get back into the experience. I actually recently suffered from this trying to play Mass Effect 2. When I could immerse myself in the narrative and the conversations, it was an emotional experience. Every time someone chose to barge into the room and bug me, it just ruined the experience of the game for a while.

Basically, some repetition is good to get us into a sense of flow. Not every game needs to be approached on a conscious level.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I completely agree with the article and would love to see a thousand new maps. Even if they would eventually be old it would still be a time of discovery and joy.

For me, the repetetiveness of maps (or maybe the lack on non-combat content) is the #1 drawback of this game


 

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Originally Posted by Drugfree Boy View Post
I completely agree with the article and would love to see a thousand new maps. Even if they would eventually be old it would still be a time of discovery and joy.
Yes, I'd like a thousand new maps, as well. While we're at it, I'd also like a 50-foot kitty that dispenses cheeseburgers and tax-deductible gold bullion. And a pony.

Realistically speaking, this is not going to happen, because it's a very poor investment of time and resources. A few new tilesets, many new tileset pieces, sure. That's more or less what I expect from going rogue. But "a thousand new maps" is basically several issues of nothing but, and I'll bet dollars to kittens that not a lot of people will be overjoyed at that.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
People keep asking for more challenge, smarter AI, more complicated missions and so forth, but...
Slightly off topic, but;
I'd just like my pets to recognise a railing when they have to jump over it. Or, when I hit 'Follow' for them to ACTUALLY stop and follow me...NOT keep on hitting the mob I dont want them to hit >_<

Cheap AI: Bad
Non-retarded pet AI: Good


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Or, when I hit 'Follow' for them to ACTUALLY stop and follow me...NOT keep on hitting the mob I dont want them to hit >_<
This depends more on their stance then on movement commands.


 

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I think the article is somewhat unfair - because it's failed to take into account a lot of the newer content in the game that doesn't use the maps.

Sure, we see that warehouse a lot, but then if you play a lot, as some have pointed out, that's inevitable. Nobody's complaining because they've run the ITF 20 times.

Sure, new skins and tiles would be a nice to have but I'd rather see the game moving forward than old content being revamped - but for me the original article isn't relevant to today's game. It's a filler for Massively. If they'd posted that maybe 3 years ago, they might have had a reasonable case but not now.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Yeah, every time someone talks about how "great" Striga Isle is I cringe so hard I crack a tooth. Faultline, yes. Striga... NO! To HELL with Striga!

I love Striga. It's one of the must under-used zones with some great arcs and an excellent Task Force.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

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This is exactly why I refuse to visit anybody who lives in a housing development. The layout for every house is exactly the same although sometimes mirrored. Sure the people in each house are different but they stand around in the same rooms. The activities that take place in each house may be different but they are all still activities. Sure the furniture is different but the beds are still in the bedrooms, the kitchen stuff is still in the kitchen, the couch is still in the livingroom... I think you get my point.

And let's talk about cities. Every time I visit them the streets and buildings are in the same place they were last time. Sure they get an expansion sometimes but that new building or street gets old and repetitive very quickly.

In fact I don't even know what I'm doing in this forum. I'm still using the same computer I had last year and sitting at the same computer desk using the same internet connection. I think it's about time that the movie 2012 happened for real. The Earth needs reskinning.


Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!

 

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Originally Posted by Mandu View Post
This is exactly why I refuse to visit anybody who lives in a housing development.
I don't think every office building and warehouse from Atlas Park to Peregrine Island counts as a subdivision that we should expect them to look the same.

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And let's talk about cities. Every time I visit them the streets and buildings are in the same place they were last time.
Who was complaining about the street layout?


 

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[QUOTE=Spazztastics;2586894]I do not see this "repetiveness" in CoX. I love to whack people down wherever it's caves, offices, bla bla. Whacking people simply never gets old.
CoX offers an excellent system for you to try out a millions of combinations of characters power sets and builds. If you don't like your build, simply respec or make a new character. Every character you make is a whole new experience.

WoW on the other hand is an extremely repetitive game with it's 80 levels loooong quest grind, boring unsatisfying PVE killing and it's 'based on end-game stuf concept (yes, i have played wow in my days and I had a couple of level 80's before I quit so I'm not just trolling).

In all. CoX is a MMO and every MMO out there have some kind of repetitiveness in the end. I don't care much for that the instances have the same maps. It's nothing that I ponder about while I'm rescuing and whacking ppl down, giggling as villains hit every wall in a office corridor. The city zones are so varied in the game that it should be enough for people who want to experience views.[/Qoute]

I am guessing by your forum date that you have not been playing that long so no you might not see the issue. Trying playing 5+ years, like a lot of people in this game, and you would think different. Does get old after awhile and new layouts will go along way to correct that.


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