Vahzilok r dum - PROOF!


Atiaxi

 

Posted

So as most vet players know, Vahzilok zombies are "dumb" ESPECIALLY when their "human" type associates are taken out. New players might not be aware of this, so I figured I'd capture it on video to show them.

So here you go, proof that the V-zoms are dumb as a brick once you take away the brains of the operation.

You will notice that they instantly come after me once I start to attack their "hooman", but once he's dead and I get out of their line of sight, they immediately go from having the intelligence of a chicken to the intelligence of a shoe.

Also note that once this happens, they don't even try to attack me until I'm right ON TOP of them. And attacking one doesn't make the other one want to kill me like it does with every other mob type in the game.

Zombie #2 only starts attacking once I get "too close".

So, why is this? Well there's two possibilities that I can think of:

  1. Zombies have EXTREMELY low natural perception, and the human types carry with them some sort of inherent Leadership power that increases their perception as long as they are alive.
  2. The zombies actually have a different AI than the rest of the mobs in the game and are CODED to be "dumber" once the humans are gone.
I strongly suspect that #1 is much more likely, but if #2 was true then that would mean that there's the CHANCE that in the future we could see mob types that act differently than the standard AI, if the devs go into the Vahzilok code and see what the original engine designers did to make that happen.

What do you all think of this? Which do you think is more likely, and finally, how many of you out there DIDN'T know this little facet of the Vahzilok?



By the way, the music was a happy accident, I was listening to KJSR.NET at the time I recorded this.


 

Posted

It's definitely an AI thing since the human Vahz don't have any sort of powers that would help.


 

Posted

The humans ain't no brain trust either. Their understanding of defensive tactics is a little suspect...



No, don't get up, I'll see myself out.



Vahzilok are fun all around, except for the 'fighting' part.


They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!

@Starflier

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
By the way, the music was a happy accident, I was listening to KJSR.NET at the time I recorded this.
How amusingly appropriate, yeesh.

But yeah, if you look at the Vahzilok page on the wiki, their resistance power has this to say:

Quote:
[...] They also are fairly dumb, and may wander around mindlessly if there are no Reapers around to tell them what to do.
I imagine they have something that gives them a high resistance to threat and/or perception when they're without a human, if the AI itself isn't what makes the action unique. That said, there are other mobs that have special...actions like this. If you've ever played a squishy without Sleep protection, without explicitly being held by something with aggro control, you'll see mobs turn, use a Sleep on you/the squishy, then go back to whatever they were doing.


Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starflier View Post
The humans ain't no brain trust either. Their understanding of defensive tactics is a little suspect... [...]
You were interrupting their line dancing session!

But that's okay. I'm known to lob grenades at Hellions trading comic books.


 

Posted

I believe in regular encounters, the vahz zombies have low perception and low threat-aggro that adds to their appearance of stupidity.

I have easily broken aggro when health was low by running a few yards away from the zombies. If it were clockwork, they would chase you from the Bloody Bay helicopter to the Atlas Park gate, maybe I exaggerate. That, said there is a difference in how long you can keep attention of various villain types in the game.

The funniest thing about vahzilok are their silly ambushes. You get all the moritficators and reapers all at once and five minutes later, the abominations and embalmed arrive, stumbling along.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

I was under the impression that their raging stupidity was intended to provide game balance since they're so tough individually.

I also find it odd that animated corpses who don't notice their comrades getting picked off right next to them still have the capacity for snappy banter and witty repartee. (i.e. "Here comes the meat aisle." or "Dinner and a movie, perhaps?") Apparently, Dr. Vahzilok chose to keep that part of the brain intact over other, more expendable, parts. Who needs situational awareness or an understanding of basic tactics when your undead minions can do standup?

Can't wait for the Vahzilok/Banished Pantheon All Dead Comedy Tour. Those guys rot... I mean rock.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Knight View Post
Can't wait for the Vahzilok/Banished Pantheon All Dead Comedy Tour. Those guys rot... I mean rock.
Hey, they can do a VARIETY SHOW, comedy and music!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
Hey, they can do a VARIETY SHOW, comedy and music!
Ya know, they may view humans as expendable fodder in their quests for world domination, but that doesn't mean they can't be FUN. Get a few drinks into Dr. V or Lughebu and you've got yourself a PAR-TAY.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psylenz View Post
......If it were clockwork, they would chase you from the Bloody Bay helicopter to the Atlas Park gate, maybe I exaggerate. That, said there is a difference in how long you can keep attention of various villain types in the game.
If you exaggerate, it isn't by much. They might be the most persistent little buggers in the game.


 

Posted

I'm willing to bet it's all in the threat level AI. Vahz zombies have their threat levels against you quickly aged out if you move out of perception range (which is low to begin with). When their 'leaders' are around, the leaders keep refreshing their minion's threat charts and so, they stay on you when the leaders are around.

Clockwork age out their threat level very slowly. You need to get out of their awareness range and not just their perception range to shake them, and that's without having done damage to them, at which point, they will hunt you down FOREVER.


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Knight View Post
I was under the impression that their raging stupidity was intended to provide game balance since they're so tough individually.

I also find it odd that animated corpses who don't notice their comrades getting picked off right next to them still have the capacity for snappy banter and witty repartee. (i.e. "Here comes the meat aisle." or "Dinner and a movie, perhaps?") Apparently, Dr. Vahzilok chose to keep that part of the brain intact over other, more expendable, parts. Who needs situational awareness or an understanding of basic tactics when your undead minions can do standup?

Can't wait for the Vahzilok/Banished Pantheon All Dead Comedy Tour. Those guys rot... I mean rock.
Not the first time I've seen a zombie entertain...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8hcv-uUNDw


to TO THE END!
Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
I'm willing to bet it's all in the threat level AI.
Vahz zombie minions have -37ft Perception. Minion base perception is 45ft, so by themselves, they can only see 8 feet ahead of them (melee range is 7ft)

The reapers have no powers which increase perception, so the increased activity in proximity to the Reapers is probably part of their AI.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Once upon a time one of the devs posted something about the enemy AI. One thing I remember was that there are quite a few variables which they can tweak. Every enemy uses the same AI programming, but with a different set of values for those variables. At least, that's my understanding of it.


Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Knight View Post
I was under the impression that their raging stupidity was intended to provide game balance since they're so tough individually.

I also find it odd that animated corpses who don't notice their comrades getting picked off right next to them still have the capacity for snappy banter and witty repartee. (i.e. "Here comes the meat aisle." or "Dinner and a movie, perhaps?") Apparently, Dr. Vahzilok chose to keep that part of the brain intact over other, more expendable, parts. Who needs situational awareness or an understanding of basic tactics when your undead minions can do standup?

Can't wait for the Vahzilok/Banished Pantheon All Dead Comedy Tour. Those guys rot... I mean rock.
Oh yeah, they really kill me.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpeter View Post
Once upon a time one of the devs posted something about the enemy AI. One thing I remember was that there are quite a few variables which they can tweak. Every enemy uses the same AI programming, but with a different set of values for those variables. At least, that's my understanding of it.
You may be thinking of the Threat calculation Castle posted. There are modifiers to threat which can be individualized per enemy type, including (according to Castle), a 'kill the healer' variable (though all enemies currently in the game don't make any use of it)


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
You may be thinking of the Threat calculation Castle posted. There are modifiers to threat which can be individualized per enemy type, including (according to Castle), a 'kill the healer' variable (though all enemies currently in the game don't make any use of it)
Yes, you're right. That's what I was thinking of. I remember the unused "kill the healer" variable.


Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpeter View Post
Yes, you're right. That's what I was thinking of. I remember the unused "kill the healer" variable.
Not to be confused with the "kill the wabbit" vawiable. I think that's unique to one of the least competent AVs, Fudd. He used to be an Arachnos Huntsman, but was thrown out for poor marksmanship. Poor sap couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. What a maroon!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Knight View Post
Not to be confused with the "kill the wabbit" vawiable. I think that's unique to one of the least competent AVs, Fudd. He used to be an Arachnos Huntsman, but was thrown out for poor marksmanship. Poor sap couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. What a maroon!
Awesome. These are for you:


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
Awesome. These are for you:

Muchas gracias!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Knight View Post
Muchas gracias!
Careful, it's Westly. No pee tests in your immediate future, is there?


Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

Brain cells are harder to rejuvinate then most others.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
You may be thinking of the Threat calculation Castle posted. There are modifiers to threat which can be individualized per enemy type, including (according to Castle), a 'kill the healer' variable (though all enemies currently in the game don't make any use of it)
I am quite certain that all CoT Spectral Demon Lords have (and use) a kill Dark One (one of my Brother's characters) setting. I have seen a SDL break away from a Tank run around 2 corners, just to take a shot at Dark One. Who, I might add, was doing absolutely nothing to anything on the map at the time.

Its even worse when he tries to use Moonbeam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Knight View Post
Not to be confused with the "kill the wabbit" vawiable. I think that's unique to one of the least competent AVs, Fudd. He used to be an Arachnos Huntsman, but was thrown out for poor marksmanship. Poor sap couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. What a maroon!
For which my character, Broad side of a Barn (Rad/Dark Defender), is profoundly thankful.


There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon View Post
For which my character, Broad side of a Barn (Rad/Dark Defender), is profoundly thankful.
Fudd was probably aiming for Bwoad side of a Barn. After he was booted out of Arachnos, they immediately revised their curriculum and raised their admission standards. (Sadly, the Rogue Isle School District is not known for its academic excellence.)