Petition to change Flash Arrow to AoE blind.
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2010-01-08 20:24 in Defenders
the tohit debuff is UNRESISTABLE
That is huge for AV fights.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Exactly what do you want Flash Arrow to do? I'm not sure what it is you're asking for.
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-6.25% ToHit is huge?|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
the tohit debuff is UNRESISTABLE
That is huge for AV fights. |
We must have different ideas of huge.
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Well, compared to the resistable debuffs the end result is impressive against most AVs.|
Originally Posted by Barbie_Ink
-6.25% ToHit is huge?
We must have different ideas of huge. |
That said, there is no "blind" status effect for critters. The "blinded" warning that pops up for players just refers to the -perception that some powers have, but -perception against AI-controlled critters only reduces aggro range and does nothing more after a spawn or critter is aggroed due to how critter AI functions.
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i make stuff...
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The power does exactly what you're requesting it to be changed to do. The critter AI, however, does not obey the same rules that players follow, so the net result is different.|
Originally Posted by overkillGA
Please sign this to make a pretty much redundant power slightly useful.
Currently set for -visibility and to hit debuff. |
As such, not signed.
Additionally, Flash Arrow does not display any redundancies. It doesn't do anything that any other TA power does, or any secondary power, nor are -Perception and -ToHit redundant effects. What Flash Arrow does do is similar to what powers like Shadow Fall or Steamy Mist do, offer some mediocre defensive protection to the player and allies and reduce enemy perception. Ergo, Flash Arrow is no more "redundant" than those PBAoE Stealth/Defense powers are.
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Example a power slotted to 40% tohit debuff (such as Rad infection) is resisted by 85%at 50, leaving a net effect of 6%.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Well, compared to the resistable debuffs the end result is impressive against most AVs.
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Flash arrow is slot able to ~11.3% and uses that full effect.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Someone could also ask for -range on Flash Arrow but I wouldn't hold any breaths.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Forum Rules & Guidelines|
Originally Posted by overkillGA
Please sign this to make a pretty much redundant power slightly useful.
Currently set for -visibility and to hit debuff. |
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| Do not create threads/posts to petition or lobby for game features, additions, changes, or other issues. You may post suggestions and/or ideas to the boards, but you may not create a petition for others to sign. This is bumping in disguise and will not be allowed. Lobbying is continually bringing up the same topic repeatedly in numerous different threads or as an off-topic post in official threads to get developer attention. This form of posting is not permitted. |
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It was my understanding that resistance to effects is all or none - e.g. 85% of the time the debuff you mention doesn't happen at all, 15% of the time the full debuff is put into effect for the full duration... so over time you average a net effect of 6%, but it's inconsistent.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Example a power slotted to 40% tohit debuff (such as Rad infection) is resisted by 85%at 50, leaving a net effect of 6%.
Flash arrow is slot able to ~11.3% and uses that full effect. |
Isn't this how debuff resistances work in game? Otherwise cascade defense failure would happen much faster than it does (if one is softcapped and has def debuff resist), because being hit would mean you lose some defense.
I admit I've not sat in Cim with my %'s window open to verify this, but that's what I've read in guides.
Mind: Pretense: 50 ILL/FF (C), Gamma force: 50 FF/Rad (D)
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Soul: Witty: 24 (AW)
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I don't know where you read that, but that is definitely not what occurs. What Catwhoorg described is how debuff resistance works in this game.
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Originally Posted by Pretense
It was my understanding that resistance to effects is all or none - e.g. 85% of the time the debuff you mention doesn't happen at all, 15% of the time the full debuff is put into effect for the full duration... so over time you average a net effect of 6%, but it's inconsistent.
Isn't this how debuff resistances work in game? Otherwise cascade defense failure would happen much faster than it does (if one is softcapped and has def debuff resist), because being hit would mean you lose some defense. I admit I've not sat in Cim with my %'s window open to verify this, but that's what I've read in guides. |
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Not 100% sure of course, but I THINK he's asking for an AoE Placate effect to be added.
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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Exactly what do you want Flash Arrow to do? I'm not sure what it is you're asking for.
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It sounds like you are confusing how defense works and how resistance works, and then applying it to debuff resistance.|
Originally Posted by Pretense
It was my understanding that resistance to effects is all or none - e.g. 85% of the time the debuff you mention doesn't happen at all, 15% of the time the full debuff is put into effect for the full duration... so over time you average a net effect of 6%, but it's inconsistent.
Isn't this how debuff resistances work in game? Otherwise cascade defense failure would happen much faster than it does (if one is softcapped and has def debuff resist), because being hit would mean you lose some defense. I admit I've not sat in Cim with my %'s window open to verify this, but that's what I've read in guides. |
First, a debuff has to hit you. Your Defense to the attack type carrying the debuff will determine this. An example would be roman sword strikes, which check melee and lethal.
If they hit, then your resistance to the debuff applies. There's no all-or-nothing, just a % value of debuff that is applied every time you are debuffed.
I do encourage you to open the Combat Attributes window on a toon with defense debuff resistance, and you'll see for yourself. Even /SR loses def. Why /SR (or high-end Shield) toons with 95%+ defense debuff resistance generally fare better than other defense sets is because every time they do get hit, only a pittance of defense debuff applies, and makes them virtually immune to cascading def failure.
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Interesting. Are these guides posted on the forums here, and can you post links and examples?|
Originally Posted by Pretense
It was my understanding that resistance to effects is all or none - e.g. 85% of the time the debuff you mention doesn't happen at all, 15% of the time the full debuff is put into effect for the full duration... so over time you average a net effect of 6%, but it's inconsistent.
Isn't this how debuff resistances work in game? Otherwise cascade defense failure would happen much faster than it does (if one is softcapped and has def debuff resist), because being hit would mean you lose some defense. I admit I've not sat in Cim with my %'s window open to verify this, but that's what I've read in guides. |
As has already been mentioned, that is not at all what happens when a debuff hits. i'm pretty sure any guides that say what you claim they do would've been corrected long ago if they were posted to these forums. Flash Arrow is autohit outside of PvP.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Perhaps the OP is not aware what redundant actually means.
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Originally Posted by Luminara
The power does exactly what you're requesting it to be changed to do. The critter AI, however, does not obey the same rules that players follow, so the net result is different.
As such, not signed. Additionally, Flash Arrow does not display any redundancies. It doesn't do anything that any other TA power does, or any secondary power, nor are -Perception and -ToHit redundant effects. What Flash Arrow does do is similar to what powers like Shadow Fall or Steamy Mist do, offer some mediocre defensive protection to the player and allies and reduce enemy perception. Ergo, Flash Arrow is no more "redundant" than those PBAoE Stealth/Defense powers are. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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this would only affect the caster, not the rest of the team.|
Originally Posted by Tylerst
Not 100% sure of course, but I THINK he's asking for an AoE Placate effect to be added.
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However, no, it is not what the OP was talking about.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
I dont think he is "Asking" for a Placate like effect to be added....its more like he is "Demanding".
If someone hadnt gotten to it first...i woulda pointed out that its agenst the rules to push someone to do anything that you desire through petitioning the Devs....
Here is a great way to deal with this conflict though,and ill give a few choices that i can think of right off the top of my head,that may resolve the entire situation.
#1 - Try to contact a Dev,or someone in charge of the games mechanics,give them your idea,and hope for the best.
#2 - Realize your being a pushy little worm that has to much time on your hands,and apologize.
#3 - Stop using that power thats making you upset and making you demand change,cause odds are,your the only one upset by it.
#4 - Stop using Trick Arrows,and choose a diffrent set on a fresh new toon.
#5 - Cut back on the caffine,as well as being overly obsessed with the game to nit-pick about a single frickin power,that does what it does,for a reason.
#6 - Shut Up.....
#7 - Step outside and get some sun and some fresh air...heck...maybe even a girl friend and a hobby.
#8 - Look back at #6 and read it again...
#9 - Accept that no one really cares,and no one loves you,and move on..
#10 - Realize im a jerk....but that your a bigger one.
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Here's an interesting comparison:|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Example a power slotted to 40% tohit debuff (such as Rad infection) is resisted by 85%at 50, leaving a net effect of 6%.
Flash arrow is slot able to ~11.3% and uses that full effect. |
Flash Arrow, against a level 50 AV, is about as effective as all of Dark Miasma's tohit debuffing combined (without Dark Servant). Level 1 power in "the weak set" vs. all but the final power in "the tohit debuffing set" results in about the same -tohit effect against a lv50 AV. Against Lord Recluse and his Lieutenants in the STF, or against the Freedom Phalanx in the LRSF, FA comes out ahead.
Disclaimer: I realize Dark Miasma brings more to bear than -tohit, but Trick Arrow also contains more than just Flash Arrow. I also admit that adding Dark Servant tips the balance in favor of DM.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I've been less than impressed with Flash Arrow myself.
What you say is correct, Whisper, but its the "only works well vs AV's" bit that got me. Even if you're running ITFs back to back, AVs are a small part of the PvE content.
I made a TA/A duo a while back with Flash Arrow and Manouvers each for an effective 30% Defence against everything for the whole team if they both opened with Flash. I did stop short a little at level 26 (27 means Thunderstrikes and capped Ranged Defence) but found their survivability and their ability to keep a PuG alive really quite poor compared to other Defender combos I'd tried. Even just one Dark Defender would allow me to eat lunch and keep a team going.
Flash Arrow being a click presents a few problems. If you're approaching a spawn through a door, half of them wont get debuffed. If a Freakshow rezzes, he doesn't keep the debuff. Maybe I just had the bad luck to fight mostly Freaks in an office. The duo did do very well against Dr Vazhilok, I may pick them up again sometime.
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Wait a minute...if all this is true...then wouldn't Hurricane drop an AV's to hit % to under 10 or something?
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Originally Posted by Barbie_Ink
-6.25% ToHit is huge?
We must have different ideas of huge. |
Hurricane is not marked [non-resistable] so against a level 50 AV operates at only 15% of its nominal value.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Ok, sorry for any confusion. What I'm asking for is the hold/sleep effect of the illusion blind power. Obviously with a smaller success rate.
I'd like to see a greater degree of realism. If a blinding flash occurs there's no admiration of how pretty it is, you simply can't see, full stop. Let's have that reaction in game.
As far as the 'no petition' rule goes.. I was unaware of that, but make no apologies. As a five year veteran I feel the community is generally ignored. I wouldn't even care, but those at dev central like to PREACH that they care for our opinions and not just for our cash.
Insert long list of player suggestions actioned here.. (BIG whoop-de-doo on the oh so important pvp changes, yawn)
so... you want an AoE hold power available at level 1 for defenders?
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
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Sounds perfectly balanced to me. Think of all the other sets that get AoE holds at level 1. Except, to make it even better, "with a smaller success rate", so that it will not reliably do anything at all. Well, except aggro everything onto the user since there's not a chance in hell the Devs would give anyone a non-aggroing AoE hold. Sort of an alpha-strike drawing power. Sweetness. Do it NAO!
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Originally Posted by Psyonico
so... you want an AoE hold power available at level 1 for defenders?
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Please sign this to make a pretty much redundant power slightly useful.
Currently set for -visibility and to hit debuff.