Why the Pocket D Stigma?


Agonus

 

Posted

With my last post being my last post I'm going to call this one the true last post.. Wait, what?

Anyway, after I post this I'm falling out of the conversation. Frankly I can't motivate myself to actually care or argue with people about this subject. Everyone has their own opinion and frankly more often than not people voice their opinions on the internet as absolute fact, frankly I just can't be bothered with that sort of crap.

Oh sure, I'll be flamed pulling out like this 'Oh she didn't have a tough enough skin', 'this proves we're right' blah blah blah ego stroke low self esteem +2 level up but to be honest I'd rather be flamed and pull out with some dignity than to sit here and argue for days on end about something that doesn't matter.

You know the end result of this entire thread? It will accomplish nothing, people will sit here, argue and flame each other for a while looking like total tards in the process ( Yes, even I look like a total tard for allowing myself to be drawn into this drama ) and eventually the thread will die away to make way for a new one. No ones opinions will be changed, nothing will be different and people will go on doing, thinking and saying what they want. As a general rule from now on I think I'm going to just avoid having my say all together as it's more a headache than it's worth arguing with people who are clearly just so much more superior and god-like than myself and who are so unimaginably enlightened I could never hope to even comprehend their intellects.

Enjoy your net fights, kids. Remember. It's serious business.


 

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Originally Posted by JadeTora View Post
You want to argue that? Show me ANYWHERE where ANYONE can prove a person is an adult on the internet.
And how does that invalidate my statements? That just means that ERPers everywhere risk performing criminal sexual activities with minors. That's a subject for those communities to deal with individually. We're talking about City of Heroes here, and the criminal sexual activities with minors that the people in charge of City of Heroes would prefer not occur on their servers.

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Age verification through credit cards? ID? Birth Certificate? Social Security? All can be faked or can be gotten to use to be faked. By your logic any eroticism on the internet as a generalized whole must therefore be illegal by the argument that you can't prove viewers and participants are of legal age.
If it were reasonable to prosecute it, yup. But if the technology and manpower existed to make it reasonable to prosecute, the technology and manpower would exist to make sure that only adults were participants, and therefore it wouldn't be a problem.

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Get a more serious argument if you wish to down this.
A more serious argument than that YOU MAY BE COMMITTING CRIMINAL SEXUAL ACTS INVOLVING CHILDREN?

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With people in the game who have ERP and all stated clearly in their profiles and the fact that the City of Heroes team seems okay with this as long as it's kept private I really don't think it's of that great a concern to them or they'd have said/done something about it.
The team is NOT Ok with it. But the manpower and technology, as stated previously, doesn't exist for universal enforcement. People who ERP in private don't evade retribution because the GMs don't care. They evade retribution because the GMs don't know.

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Most people on the game ERP or not are probably of age and if they're not, it's fairly obvious ( as a general rule, check their typing proficiency. Do they misspell words often? Do they use punctuation? If so, it's probably not someone of age. ) and you may call this argument flimsy but it's just as flimsy as yours and I seriously doubt they could actually prosecute you in court or would even bother.
As I mentioned in my last post, I have my doubts about your age, based on your irrational emotional behavior. Typing proficiency is frequently a pretty poor indicator.

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You're mad at ERPers because they're selfish? Then what are you? By your post you've rather clearly indicated you're only angry because it might ( not even a realistic chance, however ) inconvenience you. So you're guilty of being self centered as well.

Derp derp. Pot calling the kettle black.
Reason A.) Because it may harm the game, yup. A game that I enjoy. A game that many other people enjoy, whose interests I'm looking out for as well. A game produced by people I respect, who are financially reliant on its continued successful operation. I'm quite certain I mentioned both of those latter groups in my prior post.

Reason B.) Because criminal sexual acts could be committed with children, and people like you are ok with that so long as it doesn't interfere in your self-gratification. How can you honestly even try to pretend that's a defensible moral position?

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With my last post being my last post I'm going to call this one the true last post.. Wait, what?

Anyway, after I post this I'm falling out of the conversation. Frankly I can't motivate myself to actually care or argue with people about this subject. Everyone has their own opinion and frankly more often than not people voice their opinions on the internet as absolute fact, frankly I just can't be bothered with that sort of crap.
Fact or opinion: Engaging in Erotic Roleplaying with a minor, known or unknown, constitutes a criminal act in many of the jurisdictions in which City of Heroes is available?

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Oh sure, I'll be flamed pulling out like this 'Oh she didn't have a tough enough skin', 'this proves we're right' blah blah blah ego stroke low self esteem +2 level up but to be honest I'd rather be flamed and pull out with some dignity than to sit here and argue for days on end about something that doesn't matter.


So as we have it from your own words, the possibility of criminal sexual activities involving children "doesn't matter".

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You know the end result of this entire thread? It will accomplish nothing, people will sit here, argue and flame each other for a while looking like total tards in the process ( Yes, even I look like a total tard for allowing myself to be drawn into this drama ) and eventually the thread will die away to make way for a new one. No ones opinions will be changed, nothing will be different and people will go on doing, thinking and saying what they want. As a general rule from now on I think I'm going to just avoid having my say all together as it's more a headache than it's worth arguing with people who are clearly just so much more superior and god-like than myself and who are so unimaginably enlightened I could never hope to even comprehend their intellects.
I've never suggested that you're too stupid to understand. Too selfish and obsessed with your own gratification, to care about the probable consequences, however...

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Enjoy your net fights, kids. Remember. It's serious business.
The "It's Just a Game" fallacy. Just because things happen on the Internet doesn't mean there aren't real people sitting at those computers. And many more of them than you'd like to admit are children.


@Eisenzahn
GW2 - Melchior.2135
AIM - Euroclydon23
Email - scorpany@yahoo.com or <sameasmyAIM>@aol.com (for the sheer novelty of an almost 20 year old email address that hasn't been overwhelmed by spambots yet)

 

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Originally Posted by Eisenzahn View Post


As I mentioned in my last post, I have my doubts about your age, based on your irrational emotional behavior. Typing proficiency is frequently a pretty poor indicator.


<soapbox>Irrational Emotional Behavior is about as good a gauge of age as typing proficiency. Just look at a good majority of "adults" who are diagnosed as Bipolar, Chronically Depressed, on psychosomatic drugs, or better yet, are not on them yet should be.

Honestly, I fear more for the amount of violence we do not protect our children from than mere words.

Go into any bookstore and a minor can go and get a harlequin romance novel, which is many ways is considered "erotic". Kids get adults to pick up erotic magazines, or find their parent's erotic magazines/dvds.

For that matter, when you get the Winamp Media Player, take a look through the streaming video stations they have. Unless you specifically turn on a filter, there are a bunch of erotic streams to watch for free.

The problem with your thinking is that a game situation should be the one policing the conversations, when in all reality, a minor, even playing a Teen rated game, is still a minor and should be monitored first and foremost by their parents.

Unfortunately in the age we live in, most parents seem to be too busy to do things like that. We have gotten to busy, to careless, and to stupid at this point in the game. We don't want to take responsibility and instead want to shove it off on whoever we can.

All that being said, this game is privately owned, and we play in the Dev's world. They have the final say, if you don't like it, then report it to the authorities, make a protest, stop playing, whatever. </soapbox>

*Goes and puts on flame retardant underwear* Have at it.


Defcon 0 - (D4 lvl 50),DJ Shecky Cape Radio
@Shecky
Twitter: @DJ_Shecky, @siliconshecky, @thecaperadio
When you air your dirty laundry out on a clothesline above the street, everyone is allowed to snicker at the skid marks in your underoos. - Lemur_Lad

 

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this entire thread


 

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Ahh, accusations of pedorasty. It's just like I'm reading a red-top British newspaper.


The Elysienne; Magical controller
Silent Sickle; Natural scrapper
And many more.
Aenigma Rebis: "Actually, Ely's more like Jean Grey. Only... smart."

 

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Originally Posted by Eisenzahn View Post
A more serious argument than that YOU MAY BE COMMITTING CRIMINAL SEXUAL ACTS INVOLVING CHILDREN?.
Won't anyone think of the children?!?

You know, in nations owing fealty to the British Crown, the age of consent is 16, not 18. America is one of the few nations (and most states don't even conform with the stereotype) where there exists some belief that 18 is a magical age at which sex suddenly becomes okay.

You need to watch a little less Dateline, I think, and stop trying to protect other people's children. Protecting your own is work enough for anyone (and it really isn't our job to protect your children for you).


 

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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
Won't anyone think of the children?!?

You know, in nations owing fealty to the British Crown, the age of consent is 16, not 18. America is one of the few nations (and most states don't even conform with the stereotype) where there exists some belief that 18 is a magical age at which sex suddenly becomes okay.

You need to watch a little less Dateline, I think, and stop trying to protect other people's children. Protecting your own is work enough for anyone (and it really isn't our job to protect your children for you).
Age of consent is 16 in most state laws, but the federal age of consent is 18.

In Canada, it's 14, in Japan, it's 13. In Yemen, it's 9, but only if the girl is married.


 

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Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, Heroes and Heroines;

This discussion is getting out of hand and took a left turn so way before Albequerque that it's not even funny. The original question was "Why the Pocket D Stigma?" not a moral debate on whether there should be Erotic (Mature) Role-Playing in this game and it's ramifications. (I believe there's a thread located elsewhere in this forum)

If you find this kind of behavior going on and it offends you, report it. Let the Devs sort out whether its between two consenting adults or between an adult and a child and let them get the cops in on this. Don't make a big issue about it, don't brag or ZOMG about it. Report it and go about your business.

That's all that I'm going to say on that debate. However, I back Shecky on his soapbox. There is more to fear outside the game than inside the game. It comes down to two things; electronic communications and responsibility.

Now I hope you'll pardon me for stepping on my own soapbox here as I add to Shecky's comments and I apologize if I ramble a bit;

As a child of the 60s, the Internet to me was something you saw only on Star Trek and other sci-fi shows. Television was one of my forms of entertainment. Fortunately, I was wise enough to find entertainment in reading, playing baseball, that kind of stuff.

Electronic communications have become so invasive that I'm surprised we're not picking it up in our fillings. It's a part of our daily lives; on TV, on the radio, the Internet, our phones. Communications between two people is literally near-instaneous around the globe. I can write my cousin in Norway by email and receive a response not long after if he's monitoring his email the time I send it. Even so, I'd get a response in a day or so otherwise. Sending a letter used to take a week to get to Norway. I can only imagine how long it would take to get to countries further away. You can't get away from it unless you move waayyy up to the top of the backwoods somewhere and live like a frontiersman back in the 1800s.

On cable TV (and other forms), you can watch literally nearly any subject should you choose to do so. I fear for my grandkids as they become more jaded. Heck, my 3 year old granddaughter is already watching "Friday the 13th" movies. I can only shake my head and wonder what will really freak her out when she gets older.

It's far too easy to use the television as the "ultimate babysitter" unfortunately. Mom and Dad are too busy (for all that it implies) to watch 'the kid(s)' and don't take an active enough role in their kids' lives so the kids are exposed to all kinds of stuff that would probably shock Mom and Dad clear down to their toes. Then they wonder what happened when their kid goes off the deep end or whey the kid is so jaded when they see something that would have shocked their parents.

For our own part, we're just as responsible for our own behavior, whether in the game our out of the game. Some people know that in regular society they can't get away with certain behaviors they can in-game. Yet, certain in-game behavior will lead you to being /ignored and where will your fun be at that point? When you're ignored, you're not really having any fun, are you?

For the rest of us, we can only be on-guard for that. Fortunately, the Virtue server folks are mature enough to be ready for that sort of thing and deal with the idiots swiftly. This is one reason that I stay with CoX and the Virtue server. When it comes down to it - even when we play redside - we stand together.

"The Internet is for p**n" as the song goes, but it's up to us to find other avenues of escape. Like kids, we need to get outside and away from our computers and electronic mind suckers and rejuvenate, even if it's just a walk to the store and back.

By all means, I'm not saying that we should stop with our technological advancement. In some ways, I wish we could because frankly, I don't think as a society we're ready for it. However, it's here and further advances are coming. We can only ensure that we are aware of it and can distinguish reality from fantasy and help others do the same. If you are a parent, please help your kids know the difference and take an active role in their lives. If you yourself have issues with reality, please see a professional and get help.

In conclusion; enjoy the game, but get out of the cabin once in a while and discover "what's outside" too. Take a friend along. You'll have fun. :-)


 

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Originally Posted by Eisenzahn View Post
A more serious argument than that YOU MAY BE COMMITTING CRIMINAL SEXUAL ACTS INVOLVING CHILDREN?
You do realize that a child SEEKING (Yes, seeking. People who ERP don't go FORCING it on others.) to be exposed to sexual scenes is different than "COMMITTING CRIMINAL SEXUAL ACTS INVOLVING CHILDREN", yes?

By your argument, any child under the age of consent should also not watch pornography and should never involve him or herself in masturbation.

No ERPer in this game goes to lure children into the act. The game has a T rating. So anyone below that age classification shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. Furthermore, right on the box, it says "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB".

If YOU are a parent, and you're so worried about your child, then YOU are the one responsible for keeping your child from online communities. Cause there are far more idiots out there thousands of times worse than ERPers.


 

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The problem with your thinking is that a game situation should be the one policing the conversations, when in all reality, a minor, even playing a Teen rated game, is still a minor and should be monitored first and foremost by their parents.
QFT. Dudes and dudettes (whoa, I threw it back 80s style), while I consider myself a social liberal and fiscal conservative in the most plain way, the conservative in me says, "They are your kids. YOU deal with them."

I didn't choose to have any children, why am I being subjected to YOUR lifestyle choice? Why CAN'T I have ******* porn on my telly at 4pm on cable like every other fabulous Westernized country! Or at least SOFTcore! I know I'm sounding ridiculous, but it's the prnciple of the matter...

So the fact that my favorite television show characters are GIMPED because they are incapable of speaking like REGULAR human beings (because they can't say words like *****, Vagina, ****, ****, etc.) is an inconvenience on something >I< enjoy...my plane of existence.

To that end, as game-savvy as a child I was (text-based RPGs/MUDs/MUSH when I was 12, way too many consoles, and I was growing up in Korea where to NOT be on a computer was a sin), when I moved in with my mother at age 14, she cut me off. From the interwebs. I was only allowed to use the computer for homework, and internet for research for homework. I didn't even have EMAIL for the entirety of high school. And when I did have internet, I couldn't even search anything with the word "relationship" in it. Which was REALLY hard since I was nothing but social sciences AP courses...

I'm digressing. My point is, my mother and father kept me protected PRETTY ******* well.

To that end though...as soon as I got to college at FSU, I quite literally spent 6 hours straight watching pr0n. Not even participating. Just watching. For the sheer fact that I could. ROFL.

Parents control your children. That is all. This has been your friendly, ridiculous, slightly hung over ranting Sorah.




Click for Deviant Art Site - Commission List: OPEN

 

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Heehee...
1st, right on Shecky!

2nd Am I a "tard" for not getting into the "morale" debate and suggesting we should have a diner to RP in?

5th... (3, sir, 3!)

3rd Protect your children, but run the risk of them turning out like Sorah!


*hugs* (Completely innocent platonic hugs, that is)


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow View Post
...No ERPer in this game goes to lure children into the act...


You know everyone that ERPs in the game? Just curious since you're acting as the spokesman for all of them.

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The game has a T rating. So anyone below that age classification shouldn't be playing the game in the first place.
And we all know that's not the case.


Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.

good luck D.B.B.

 

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Originally Posted by Agonus View Post
You know everyone that ERPs in the game? Just curious since you're acting as the spokesman for all of them.

And we all know that's not the case.
No, I don't know every ERPer in this game. But I do know what distinguishes Erotic Roleplay from Cybersex (something many people fail to grasp). Erotic Roleplay, by nature, happens as a cause of regular roleplay. Two characters, for whatever reason, decide to have sex together. The players can either fade that scene to black, or actually write it out like they would write out a regular RP for enjoyment of all parties involved.

By that definition of Erotic Roleplay, tell me how can one FORCE a child into it.

Now, if I go around Pocket D, and send a random tell to a character "hey i wana **** u!"...now THAT is forcing it upon them. And I don't call that Erotic Roleplay. I don't even call that Cybersex. That's just intrusion of privacy and being creepy. If I start sending someone tells and actively try and seek ways to get sexual satisfaction from my conversation with this person, then that is cybersex. And cybersex between two complete strangers in an online world is immoral not only by government standards, but also by my own morals.

If a child can, and does access pornography and erotic fiction or suggestive themes, then there is no reason to classify Erotic Roleplay outside of that category. Erotic Roleplay is nothing more than erotic fiction written by two amateur writers. Period.

To tell me Erotic Roleplay is a criminal offense is like telling me PvP and text fighting is a criminal offense cause I "killed" that person's character, and that person was underage and should not have been exposed to such material.

And we all know that children do play this game. Yes. It's rated T for teen, but children also play it. Those children are also going against the rating of the game, and in a vague sense, breaking the rules. As a result, they cannot be counted in an argument about the rules. Because if you want to argue that I should be considerate of children who are playing a game they're not supposed to, I would take the liberty of asking YOU to be considerate of ME who is doing something YOU think I'm not supposed to do.

As for the ToS of the game, that's up to the developers and managers of NCSoft and Paragon Studios to decide what they wish to do with Erotic Roleplay. If you want to suggest them a way, write an official letter or protest. Don't go around bashing people and accusing them of being state criminals.

PS: Why is it that every thread about Pocket D eventually turns into an argument about morals of ERP?


 

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Originally Posted by Quinz View Post
But you just said THAt didn't happen in the D.
My wife had some guy send her tells, unsolicited, describing how he was forcing himself on her character on top of the bar. She put him on ignore and left, but it was pretty graphic.


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Originally Posted by eltonio View Post
This is over the top mental slavery.

 

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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow View Post
...PS: Why is it that every thread about Pocket D eventually turns into an argument about morals of ERP?
Because that's one of the main things that happens there that bothers people?

Me, I play villains most of the time, so the most of the "under the table" business some don't like happening around their heroes doesn't bug me. Odds are -I- am there to conduct said business anyway.


Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.

good luck D.B.B.

 

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Originally Posted by Agonus View Post
Because that's one of the main things that happens there that bothers people?

Me, I play villains most of the time, so the most of the "under the table" business some don't like happening around their heroes doesn't bug me. Odds are -I- am there to conduct said business anyway.
Just for the record, I used to be heavily against ERP, Cybersex, and anything in between. But after hearing some logical reasoning, I realized how wrong I was and switched sides.

That's probably why so many people think I'm a giant hypocrite. Oh well.


 

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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow View Post




That's probably why so many people think I'm a giant hypocrite. Oh well.
You giant hypocrite!


"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"

 

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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow View Post


Just for the record, I used to be heavily against ERP, Cybersex, and anything in between. But after hearing some logical reasoning, I realized how wrong I was and switched sides.

That's probably why so many people think I'm a giant hypocrite. Oh well.
I'm not really heavily against ERP, I'm playing devil's advocate more than anything here. What does irk me though are the people who attack those who are arguing against them, instead of debating the subject at hand. Which in this case, seems to be ERP in Pocket D. Some folks don't care, some folks don't even want to be in the same zone if there's even the vaguest implication that it might be happening nearby.

I'd say RP griefers and the broadcast "((lulz, u suk!))" spam are the biggest problems in D.


Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.

good luck D.B.B.

 

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The biggest problem in the D are the trolls. Namely, the ones that like to pretend that heals are more important than buffs. There's an argument every day about it.


 

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Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
The biggest problem in the D are the trolls. Namely, the ones that like to pretend that heals are more important than buffs. There's an argument every day about it.

No, far worse are the people that think they know everything to the point that they rage quit teams when they try to tell people not only how to play their 'toons, but how to slot them, etc, and the rest of the group doesn't kowtow to their whims.


"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"

 

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Personally, I think the biggest problem with Pocket D is the same as the biggest problem with any RP population ever: 99.99999% of them will actually be the superpowerful demonic lord of evil who's actually powerful enough to tie Lord Recluse up and use him as a yo-yo.

And they invariably act like douchebags.


Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.

 

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Originally Posted by Tramontane View Post
Personally, I think the biggest problem with Pocket D is the same as the biggest problem with any RP population ever: 99.99999% of them will actually be the superpowerful demonic lord of evil who's actually powerful enough to tie Lord Recluse up and use him as a yo-yo.

And they invariably act like douchebags.
QFT.

I miss when I would RP with this guy who RPed a dog. Yeah. A DOG. It was awesome. HAHAHAHA!

Anyway, actually, last night, I took down my line in my bio that said, "((Just cause my character is of a sexual nature, doesn't mean I wanna scheck you. Back off, perv!))" as an experiment.

Then I went around asking people if they had seen my monkey (the purple monkey that was throwing snowballs at me) in light RP mode, just striking up random convo. I was heavily hit on by catboys. And I was sent some creepy tells hahahahahaha.

AND last night, while PvPing in the D with Chimera and Rakescar, we witnessed 2 catgirls getting VERY VERY frisky (and I MEAN FRISKY) in LOCAL! Classy.

However, after being on this game for HOW many years, that is the first time I've witnessed it like that.




Click for Deviant Art Site - Commission List: OPEN

 

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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Heehee...
1st, right on Shecky!

2nd Am I a "tard" for not getting into the "morale" debate and suggesting we should have a diner to RP in?

5th... (3, sir, 3!)

3rd Protect your children, but run the risk of them turning out like Sorah!


*hugs* (Completely innocent platonic hugs, that is)
Hey, I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I think I'm pretty freaking awesome. On paper, I am AMAZING! College educated, 23 year old, with a career, well traveled, great friends, great new apartment, single, fully independent, woman! I could be MUCH worse... dunno why my new apartment makes me cooler, but I'm going to say it does. :P

Although, there is a direct, correlation (positive, in that they rise together) with suppressed sexuality and "acting out" as it were in later years when it comes to women. But I wasn't suppressed. Just cut off from free porn. In fact, despite popular belief, I'm a giant freaking prude. :P I'm just a giant tease *cackles maniacally* ask Xanatos *ducks and runs*




Click for Deviant Art Site - Commission List: OPEN