As I said, I did use inspirations. Whole trays of them. I also used my veteran powers. The example I started the thread with was an AE custom villain EB, but there have been other situations (such as Rikti Bombs during raids, and certain other EBs). As I say, the solution is one of two courses: adjust the content, or adjust the class. Since no one else seems to have the same problems (though, Controllers suffer somewhat in other ways), the solution that I see as preferable is a tweak to the class.
+4/x8/bosses/AVs can appear to a solo player
Should every character be capable of defeating that ?
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
ugh..Uberguy, could you edit your post please? I don't want anyone thinking I actually stated anything like that. Not sure what happened with the quote thing.
Ultimo, Catwhoorg showed that if you have bosses turned on, EBs will be EBs. The default difficulty is bosses off. If you've altered your difficulty beyond default, you've destroyed your own argument.
I can get AVs to spawn in my solo missions thanks to the new difficulty settings. You've already stated that you wouldn't gripe about not being able to solo AVs. Therefore, you've already, without accepting the truth of it, accepted that you shouldn't be able to solo EBs either.
Problem solved.
And as I said before, the problem is not the defender archetype nor its damage modifiers.
Am I really going to have to build an FF/Ene defender with videos of me soloing ridiculous content to prove this to you? Or can you just finally accept that the problem is you, your build and your playstyle?
Be well, people of CoH.
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Its your definition, not the devs definition. The escape hatch has traditionally been that some content is not "core content" intended to be soloable, but *can* appear to solo players that want to attempt it. An example in the past has been Maria's arc, which originally spawned AVs regardless of whether you were solo or not. It was then downscaled to spawn EBs on heroic as a compromise to soloability, but without removing the fact that that arc was explicitly intended to be very difficult and include opponents not necessarily soloable by everyone.|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
I'm afraid it is definitive. It's like saying "red content should be red." If something is going to presented as a challenge for a solo hero, it has to be soloable. If the devs are saying different, then they're wrong too. Solo content has to be soloable, or it's not solo content. If it's not solo content, then it shouldn't be appearing to solo players.
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You're entitled to your opinion that such a situation should *never* occur, but the devs disagree and I see no reason why such exceptions shouldn't occur in a well-designed game.
In any event at best you have a case for asking the devs to prevent that content from appearing in solo missions, not increasing the damage of defenders to ensure it is soloable. And given the devs have just handed to the players a large set of difficulty settings designed to allow players to downscale content until it is soloable specifically to address these types of issues your chances for success are extremely low even in that direction.
Until you can say that the content is not soloable even at the lowest possible difficulty settings you don't even have a case to present. And Cat's comment suggests to me you aren't running at the lowest possible settings yet. The "no bosses" setting is a slight misnomer, as its functionality incorporates the Boss->EB downgrade the devs were messing with a few issues ago. The setting seems to downgrade bosses to LTs and EBs to Bosses: it doesn't literally drop everything above LTs down to the LT rank. It should probably be called "downgrade Bosses" rather than "no Bosses."
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If you've altered your difficulty, then you're not playing the standard game anymore. I wouldn't complain about that either. If you're playing set at x8 players, then by definition it isn't solo content.
I said I lowered my difficulty. I play at -1 level on my Defender (though, realistically, I could restore that to normal levels). I don't have bosses enabled, nor do I play as more than one hero.
Again, solo content has to be soloable. It doesn't matter what AT or power set is involved.
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Better insp management then, more endurance efficient slotting in attacks does wonders as well. I fail to see how this is an issue though as you used your arc as an example. An arc you designed. So i am not really sure what you are getting at unless this is a ruse to get people to play your arc.|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
As I said, I did use inspirations. Whole trays of them. I also used my veteran powers. The example I started the thread with was an AE custom villain EB, but there have been other situations (such as Rikti Bombs during raids, and certain other EBs). As I say, the solution is one of two courses: adjust the content, or adjust the class. Since no one else seems to have the same problems (though, Controllers suffer somewhat in other ways), the solution that I see as preferable is a tweak to the class.
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Are there any dev created content you feel is too hard solo?
Rikti bombs yeah i have a problem witht them on do´d and to´d characters, same with halloween spawns.
What other EB´s?
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I can see a reason it shouldn't happen. A solo player that finds himself facing unsoloable content has hit a brick wall and will be unable to continue playing. This is frustrating and dissatifying, and leads to unhappy customers.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its your definition, not the devs definition. The escape hatch has traditionally been that some content is not "core content" intended to be soloable, but *can* appear to solo players that want to attempt it. An example in the past has been Maria's arc, which originally spawned AVs regardless of whether you were solo or not. It was then downscaled to spawn EBs on heroic as a compromise to soloability, but without removing the fact that that arc was explicitly intended to be very difficult and include opponents not necessarily soloable by everyone.
You're entitled to your opinion that such a situation should *never* occur, but the devs disagree and I see no reason why such exceptions shouldn't occur in a well-designed game. In any event at best you have a case for asking the devs to prevent that content from appearing in solo missions, not increasing the damage of defenders to ensure it is soloable. And given the devs have just handed to the players a large set of difficulty settings designed to allow players to downscale content until it is soloable specifically to address these types of issues your chances for success are extremely low even in that direction. Until you can say that the content is not soloable even at the lowest possible difficulty settings you don't even have a case to present. And Cat's comment suggests to me you aren't running at the lowest possible settings yet. The "no bosses" setting is a slight misnomer, as its functionality incorporates the Boss->EB downgrade the devs were messing with a few issues ago. The setting seems to downgrade bosses to LTs and EBs to Bosses: it doesn't literally drop everything above LTs down to the LT rank. It should probably be called "downgrade Bosses" rather than "no Bosses." |
If they mark a given arc as being too hard for solo play, then that's different, because it's no longer solo content.
I could ask the devs to alter all the content that could be unsoloable, but I thought it more reasonable to suggest a slight tweak to the AT that seems to be suffering most in solo situations. That this topic recurs frequently leads me to think this is a better course.
As I say, I'm ON the lowest possible settings. I'll also point out that there are certain situations (again, the Rikti bombs are an example) that aren't affected by your difficulty settings.
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How is the the whole AT bad at soloing when its you having problems?
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
I can see a reason it shouldn't happen. A solo player that finds himself facing unsoloable content has hit a brick wall and will be unable to continue playing. This is frustrating and dissatifying, and leads to unhappy customers.
If they mark a given arc as being too hard for solo play, then that's different, because it's no longer solo content. I could ask the devs to alter all the content that could be unsoloable, but I thought it more reasonable to suggest a slight tweak to the AT that seems to be suffering most in solo situations. That this topic recurs frequently leads me to think this is a better course. As I say, I'm ON the lowest possible settings. I'll also point out that there are certain situations (again, the Rikti bombs are an example) that aren't affected by your difficulty settings. |
I grabbed my storm/energy and was able to solo Catburgler as an EB under the following conditions:
-I did not use any powers from my primary except for steamy mist
-I did not use any epic pool powers
-I did not use any temp powers or non-passive accolades
The second condition was actually the tough one for me. I don't have power burst in my build since I'm using dominate instead. That means I had to use energy torrent as my third attack which was a real drain on my endurance. At level 50 this guy does over 1k damage with his focus since I didn't have any resistance. I failed on the first attempt because focus took me by surprise, but succeeded on the second one by using 1 health, 4 defense, and 4 endurance inspirations.
Focus and the self heal made this guy a real pain, but like any EB he should be defeatable through intelligent inspiration usage.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Am I really going to have to build an FF/Ene defender with videos of me soloing ridiculous content to prove this to you? Or can you just finally accept that the problem is you, your build and your playstyle?
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Hehe, funny you say this Bill, cause thats exactly what I am doing.
Much as my Solo Empathy project, I am going to give him a small slush fund and solo him all the way to 50.
Compare his death totals to Biosparks (19 iirc) and see what happens.
So, if you see Powercell flying around Protector, wish him luck
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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If you are getting an EB in the AE building on -1/x1/no bosses/no AVs that is a bug and I'd forward it to Arbiter Kim
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
As I say, I'm ON the lowest possible settings. I'll also point out that there are certain situations (again, the Rikti bombs are an example) that aren't affected by your difficulty settings. |
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Ain't it just keen that the devs put in the ability to drop missions and have them considered completed?| I can see a reason it shouldn't happen. A solo player that finds himself facing unsoloable content has hit a brick wall and will be unable to continue playing. This is frustrating and dissatifying, and leads to unhappy customers. |
Oh... almost level 5. No vet powers yet. No deaths. I'll start a new thread when I hit 22 and SOs.
How can you gripe about endurance issues when you can turn on PFF and just stand there in near perfect safety (95% safety) while your end recovers?
Be well, people of CoH.
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I can say that about anything I want also, because its theoretically true for at least one customer.|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
I can see a reason it shouldn't happen. A solo player that finds himself facing unsoloable content has hit a brick wall and will be unable to continue playing. This is frustrating and dissatifying, and leads to unhappy customers.
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Since I know no set of game design criteria can please everyone, I am still left with no good reason to specifically honor that design rule as a given.
Also: the entire AE is implicitly marked with such a flag. The entire area is a play at your own risk environment, since the devs cannot control - and do not *want* to control - the maximum difficulty that players can generate (they only want to exercise some control over the minimum difficulty within the context of controlling exploitability).
I should point out that until right about two weeks before go-live, the devs were on a trajectory to release the AE perfectly content with custom critters being forced to use all powers at full strength. There are *LTs* that would be non-trivial to solo for all players under those circumstances.**
The devs did basically state during I14 beta that if your fellow players want to kill you, they are not going to stop them. They might even award style points. You'll need to find non-AE missions to make your case.
** A mission full of Extreme SS/Ninjitsu LTs would probably turn a lot of less experienced players into smears on the wall before the end of the mission.
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Ultimo, it's all laid out here for you.
You're in the AE. AE missions are NOT held to the same soloability standards as dev created missions. Strike 1.
You're fighting a custom critter that you designed yourself, and your toon is using the least soloable defender primary combined with a mitigation heavy/dps lite secondary. Strike 2.
We've now seen a post of someone defeating the very same mob using a Storm/Energy WITHOUT USING FREEZING RAIN. Strike 3. You're out.
If you want to solo Player created content with custom mobs in it don't use the weakest soloer in the game. BillZ is absolutely right. The problem is all you.
I'll echo: do I need to make an FF/Energy and solo the Catburglar just so you'll drop this ridiculousness?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
One more time:
All of your arguments fail at the same point.
You're in the AE fighting a custom critter. AE does not play by the same rules as the rest of the game.
That said, if you can solo Positron and Manticore in The Horror of War with your FF/Energy you should be justly proud.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
This thread has taught me one thing:
There IS an "I Win" button in the game. It's called Personal Force Field. This is just silly.
"Oh no! I'm almost dead!" Turn on PFF. Go have a smoke. Come back, still alive, and full health, full end. Kill offending baddies.
Be well, people of CoH.
Bill
I win = 100% knockdown powers
ie focus or force bolt
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Looks like I'm skipping force bolt due to the minimal damage. What I'm really freaking out about is this dispersion bubble business. Hold, Immobilze and Disorient ... is that actually protection and not just resistance?
Anyway... level 6, just got hover. Heading to KR where I'll get power burst at 10. All slots are going into my blasts. PFF is the only primary power I'll have until Dispersion Bubble at 12.
Be well, people of CoH.
Dispersion bubble is indeed protection. It does have a hole to sleep
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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I don't recall Tankers ever getting an endurance discount due to having a lower damage scalar. A *long* time ago their damage was buffed from ~0.65 to 0.8, effectively raising their DPE, but their end wasn't cut.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
I also agree that if my blasts do half the damage of another AT, its simply logical that the cost should be less as well. Tankers, iirc received a endurance cost reduction on their attacks for the same exact reason. I have been waiting for the Defender discount for quite awhile. To the point that I have even suggested that defenders get a stacking bonus effect similar to blaster's inherent, but instead of dps increase, we get a endurance global reduction. Sure would make soloing easier. Would also be nice on teams.
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(If someone can point me towards proof to the contrary, I'll freely accept it.)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
** A mission full of Extreme SS/Ninjitsu LTs would probably turn a lot of less experienced players into smears on the wall before the end of the mission.
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People aren't listening, alas. As I have said before, it wasn't that he was killing me, it's that I couldn't do enough damage to defeat him. He was regenerating faster than I could sustain damage. The closest I got was him at half health, me at a sliver of endurance. Granted, he could have defeated me in one or two hits, but that's the nature of Defense (as opposed to Resistance).
TR:
You're telling me the AT isn't bad at soloing, even though that exact complaint has come up over and over for years?
Garent:
Storm is a set that does fairly well, as it also has debuffs in it.
Biospark:
Good luck!
Cat:
If it's a bug, I'll report it. However, as I've said over and over, this is just an example. An illustration of a larger issue.
Also, Force Bolt doesn't increase damage output, which was the problem here.
Bill:
The ability to drop missions is a band aid. It says to me that they're recognizing a balance problem, but rather than fixing it, they're giving you a way around it.
I can turn on PFF if I'm getting killed. As I've said, that isn't the problem here. Even if it was, by the time I get back to full health, so is the foe, and now I have used my inspirations.
Arcana:
There's only one solo player? People don't get frustrated when facing content that is impossible to overcome?
As I say, I wasn't intending to use the AE example to "make my case," just to illustrate it. I referred to other instances (though only bombs, specifically) where the same issue has come up, and there have been other threads on the subject. THIS thread was intended to discuss an idea of how to remedy a situation that many of others have posted about before now. Unfortunately, people are fixating on the illustration rather than the idea.
Wavicle:
Your first and second strikes are the same thing. Either way, you're missing the point that this is something that's come up before now, in other threads by other posters. Don't fixate on the illustration.
(By the way, with an exam in the morning, this is my last post for tonight. I'm not being rude or ignoring anything, it'll just have to wait!)
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For the 10000th time, you weren't doing enough damage because your build is not designed for soloing.| People aren't listening, alas. As I have said before, it wasn't that he was killing me, it's that I couldn't do enough damage to defeat him. |
If you don't have assault, you fail. If you don't have p-bolt, p-blast, p-burst, e-torrent, explosive blast, repulsion bomb and Aim all slotted to 95% damage buff, you fail.
If you don't have stamina ed-capped, you fail.
You have already been shown an energy blast defender soloing your EB that didn't use storm's debuffs. This is UNDENIABLE PROOF that the problem is YOU.
The only person completely ignoring reality in this thread is YOU.
Be well, people of CoH.
Oksah - my level 50 emp/rad defender.
Watch Oksah solo said boss twice, once with her normal build and once with an identical power and slot selection, only with normal IOs and lacking set bonuses.
Oksah's normal build
Oksah's basic build
Yes, I used insps. That's why I'm working on trying again, soloing this mob as an EB with both builds, without insps.
I post these videos with the fear that they will nerf defender damage...we're kinda strong as it is...
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The bug was that it stacked with itself, so Ninjitsu critters were always at the damage cap. But the current version still buffs, just not quite that high. it also correctly suppresses, which I think the original version was not set correctly to do.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Well, to be fair, Hide was bugged to hell and back.
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Still, with rage and hide a custom LT would be at 280% total damage instead of 400%. That's still kinda high. Picture a level 50 mission full of invisible rage-buffed Lts that will do ... 449.76 damage with a scale 1.0 attack like Punch. That's at even con, not +2. If you are unlucky enough for them to open with KO Blow, that's 1601.16 damage heading your way.
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Use inspirations.
What content do you consider solo content but is too hard? Make me a list of arcs and i´ll solo it.