Quote:
Less nerdrage, more spellcheck...
|
Originally Posted by Darkelven_Vixxin
WHY is the WORLD are you people DISTROYING the animations?.. the weapon draw is part of the freeking Look, and i just can't imagin WHY the heck a game that is so great on looks even considers cutting out the animations, or make them look crappy by cutting out the weapon draw...
if you want to now draw a weapon DON"T freeking pick powers that use a freeking Weapon, GAWD stop trying to be a speed clicker and use your freeking mind, tachtices and let us have the weapon draw and movement lock down during the draw, Re-Draw is good too, if you devs want to make these people that complain happy just put up a kinda minor defensive buff boost while redraw or something, or make the blast a few cliclks harder hitting after the draw, or maybe a acc boost for a few seconds Stop distroying the game for a Body count in PVP that's another thing, look at the powers themseves, not all powers should be equal, and targeting should not be automatic epecually in PVP when one tleports drop targeting, maybe add a laggy targeting system to when someone speeds past, harder to hit a moveing target, but the teleport is my bigest concern, when one ports they shoudl be off the other person target screen, and it should interupt the attacks, ( if I am targeted, and I port, the next attack they tryed would cancel becuse I'm not there) make the Powers the focus, Not the body count, and Stick it to the PVP'ers make them freekign Work for it. |
Quote:
You know, seriously, I offered my opinion in a mature and intelligent manner. It's no big deal.|
Originally Posted by Another Space
...
Also: how hilarious that the only people who want to counter-gripe about weapon redraw only come out when BABs announces he can fix it. |
Don't lump me in as some whiner because, Oh, I only voiced my displeasure after Babs said he figured out a way.
Should I post threads about every thing in this game that I wouldn't want to see changed... just in case a Developer might announce a change before I've voiced my opinion on it?
As for the other comment about, stay out of range and, voila, redraw animation... that hardly works for when you're in the middle of a fight and you switch between attacks that causes redraw, hehe.
Anyways, it is the Developers' choice on such matters.
I just never thought they'd remove redraw by simply removing the animation. That's all.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Well, I did some testing and the only method I could replicate was with Sniper Rifle. I'm guessing this would apply to any interruptable power but since I've got it slotted for interrupt reduction once the reduced interrupt period has passed I can slide around for the rest of the animation with no problem.|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
More specificity here would help. Which power exactly are you using that allows you to slide around?
|
I'm sure I've seen it with other powers but I can't seem to replicate it in a controlled environment.
Quote:
In general fiction, and especially in animation and video games, "speed draw" has become the norm. That is not to say that draw doesn't exist, it does. It's just done so quickly and out-of-scale with the speed of everything else that it may as well be instant. Rather than dilly-dally with making incredibly fast draw animations, the easiest, cheapest next-best-thing is to just not have draw at all. Functionally and for all it matters, it's the same thing as a really quick draw, as a really quick draw is nearly invisible to the eye, anyway.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I have to admit, I don't really care for the idea of getting rid of the redraw animations... I'd like to see the ability to keep a weapon out when using other non-weapon attacks (But I understand how this is an arduous task and don't expect to see it happen... if it ever does... cool/yay/hi-5)... but... making it so that my character puts away the weapon to fire off a different sort of attack and then just has that weapon reappear... is less appealing to me than what we currently have.
|
Look at any non-FPS action game that revolves around a multiple weapon design and you'll note they all use what's known in the industry as a "fast weapon switch." Essentially, the switch is instant, so as to preserve the pace of the action and to allow for consistent, flowing combos. What's more, a lot of games that focus on weapon users often have the weapon user constantly use a holstered weapon, pulling it out the instant you hit the attack button, performing a full combo and then putting it away, in effect never having a weapon in-hand unless he's attacking.
Again, you have not seen this in action. I have. It looks a lot better than it seems from the verbal description. Give it some time, try it out, play around with it and I'm sure you'll come around. Yes, it's a bit of a cheat, but for the sake of the smoothness it creates, it's a good cheat.
Consider the consequences. You can mix Kick into your sword attack chain, and you won't have to slow down and redraw each time you kick. It'll be just a smooth attack chain no different from a (somewhat slow) fighting game. Or you could have. On the other side of the fence is something like an Assault Rifle/Energy Blaster, who can punch and gun at the same time. And while it would certainly be better for each punch to kept the rifle out, I guarantee that with this change, you'll get pretty dang close to this. Or, and this is what should keep you up at night, picking different models of Spines for your different Spines attacks should no longer cause in-set redraw. Err... When we get to Spines, that is
One of the big problems in City of Heroes is that combat system is cumbersome, rooting us for long periods of time, often for little or no benefit. BABs has been trimming the fat for years, making small attacks faster and eliminating some of the pauses. By and large our animations are great, better than most other MMO, but at times they can feel unwieldy. These are the times when you spend a lot of time rooted AFTER an attack has completed, as well as the times you would really like to chain attacks one after the other, but there's a big gap between them. And, yes, this also occurs when you have to draw a weapon after every couple of attacks.
And I know what you're thinking: just don't take non-weapon attacks when you have a weapon set! Well, why not? Now that I can, this opens up a lot of new build options, as well as a lot of new concept options. I've often wanted to take Kick or Boxing on my sword users, but never did because putting the sword away looked dang silly. Now that it won't matter, I'll have to go back and retry that.
Overall: Christmas comes early for me! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Wait. What? Really?|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Good news everyone, I think I have figured out a way to bypass weapon redraw in combat.
|
-Really-?
What's next, cigars for gals and shoulder cats for guys?
Well... Get down with your badass self, then.
All I wanted to do was state my opinion, not trying to convince anybody of anything, nor do we need to debate which is better, who's right or wrong or who's mother made the better cake (I'd say pie, but someone would twist it around). 
I just had to say...
Quote:
Haha, why do you think you've seen this and I haven't? |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
...
Again, you have not seen this in action. I have. It looks a lot better than it seems from the verbal description. Give it some time, try it out, play around with it and I'm sure you'll come around. Yes, it's a bit of a cheat, but for the sake of the smoothness it creates, it's a good cheat. ... |
Anyways... I'm not going to come here and post a whole bunch of replies trying to defend my tastes nor debate about this.
It's simple. I didn't think they'd remove the animation from combat and I like it... However, if they take it out, it's not going to kill anything for me.
Hopefully (if the Devs don't have any opposition to doing it, as its their decision on such a thing) the majority wins (Which is surely for the removal of redraw).
I have no problem with that. I just wanted to voice my opinion on it. Whatever way anyone else thinks about it, majority or minority, doesn't influence my opinion.
When Babs said "...even putting aside the aesthetics of a physical weapon just instantly appearing in your hand..." I thought for sure that that aesthetic element was an obstacle they weren't in favor of knocking down. *shrugs* Guess they think it looks good!
Also... I trust Babs and this team.
What they choose to do will very likely work well and look good.
Have your glory, I will miss redrawing my bow in-between my secondary attacks.
(If/when it fixes Spines... that is a major victory I can't refute!)
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
So this was the first thing I thought of when I read that:|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Good news everyone
|
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
No-one's trying to say you're wrong to feel how you feel. We're just trying to say you should give it a chance. It looks better than it sounds.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
All I wanted to do was state my opinion, not trying to convince anybody of anything, nor do we need to debate which is better, who's right or wrong or who's mother made the better cake (I'd say pie, but someone would twist it around).
|
Quote:
|
Haha, why do you think you've seen this and I haven't?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Please tell me I'm not the only one to notice "I fixed all the weapons sets so that the weapon sets don't cause redraw with themselves"?
|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to get to every powerset at once, but I was able to get the following powersets done.
|
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
...not sure if like |
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Good news everyone, I think I have figured out a way to bypass weapon redraw in combat. I've tested it with with various non-weapon powers or weapon powers from completely different sets, and it seems to work out. This means that you will be able to use any power in a chain with a weapon power, and not have to redraw the weapon...even completely different weapon powers. It will just instantly appear in your hand and play the attack animation. If you're not in combat, out of range, or have no target selected...then it will play a non-rooted, interruptible version of the weapon draw animations.
Some minor issues with consistently playing a weapon draw animation outside of combat, or the weapon draw animation playing when it really does need to...but that shouldn't interfere with combat. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to get to every powerset at once, but I was able to get the following powersets done.
|
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean, since the man said:|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Please tell me I'm not the only one to notice "I fixed all the weapons sets so that the weapon sets don't cause redraw with themselves"?
|
Quote:
| This means that you will be able to use any power in a chain with a weapon power, and not have to redraw the weapon...even completely different weapon powers. It will just instantly appear in your hand and play the attack animation. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
And then the list of powersets which work under the "new" system (ie: don't cause weapons to redraw) are... weapon sets, which already don't cause weapons to redraw
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Super-Wow! I never realised this thread would gain so much precedence! It just goes to show that the devs really do get involved with the community when something good comes up!
Quote:
You misunderstand my suggestion, I will try to clarify the intention of this thread.|
Originally Posted by Darkelven_Vixxin
 WHY is the WORLD are you people DISTROYING the animations?.. the weapon draw is part of the freeking Look, and i just can't imagin WHY the heck a game that is so great on looks even considers cutting out the animations, or make them look crappy by cutting out the weapon draw... if you want to now draw a weapon DON"T freeking pick powers that use a freeking Weapon, GAWD stop trying to be a speed clicker and use your freeking mind, tachtices and let us have the weapon draw and movement lock down during the draw, Re-Draw is good too, if you devs want to make these people that complain happy just put up a kinda minor defensive buff boost while redraw or something, or make the blast a few cliclks harder hitting after the draw, or maybe a acc boost for a few seconds Stop distroying the game for a Body count in PVP that's another thing, look at the powers themseves, not all powers should be equal, and targeting should not be automatic epecually in PVP when one tleports drop targeting, maybe add a laggy targeting system to when someone speeds past, harder to hit a moveing target, but the teleport is my bigest concern, when one ports they shoudl be off the other person target screen, and it should interupt the attacks, ( if I am targeted, and I port, the next attack they tryed would cancel becuse I'm not there) make the Powers the focus, Not the body count, and Stick it to the PVP'ers make them freekign Work for it. |
My suggestion was to find a solution to an annoyance known as 'unneccesary redraws', the effect generated when a character is forced to put away a weapon to use an attack or power that they could easily perform without having to drop everything in hand. Like throwing a grenade despite the fact you're holding a one-handed weapon, or sillier still, putting away a weapon to use your LEGS!
My suggestion never intended to be viewed as getting rid of weapons draws entirely. It's not the Weapon draws that were the problem, it was the unneccessary REDRAWS. Pulling out your weapon to start a battle isn't bad, it's logical. But being forced to put it away when it's clearly possible to multi-task isn't.
In a game where heroes and villains put their life on the line to do what they do best, you'd think they'd be smart enough to know that their limbs are independent from each other. A character should be able to throw their knives if they have only one sword in hand, heck, even claw users can still throw things because most likely their fingers are free to grasp objects.
Having good combat flow in a game isn't destroying City of Heroes, nor is it solely for PvP'ers and DPS, it simply makes combat more logical. Are you also aware that weapons appear out of nowhere when you cue an attack power while running? That's been around in the game for AGES and is the only workaround to the issue so far, but it's most likely a bug, a kind of animation-cancel people use to get an edge in combat. Fixing weapon redraws now means that everybody will have the same intelligent combat flow as everybody else.
By going against this fix you're actually letting those "dirty, filthy PvPers" have the advantage over those who don't know the bugs and tricks to saving time on redrawing weapons. What is illogical is somehow thinking pulling out your sword will make it hit any harder than a normal swing, or pulling out your gun will make you more accurate. So those 'defensive buffs' you're suggesting would only make the logical issue make even less sense than than it already is.
But I digress,
Whatever inspired BackAllyBrawler to find the solution to this problem, I would like to formally thank him for taking an interest and glad to see good news of a possible solution! Even if my Assault-Rifle/Devices Blaster is still affected by redraw issues even after the fact, I have faith that the development team will get to it eventually, and that's good enough for me!
I read the list of affected powerset changes, it's cool to see my Tanker and Mastermind are going to be redrawless now. I can finally make use of the Fighting pool to it's fullest! If I get my Blaster to the Epic levels, Munitions mastery will be delicious!
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
Quote:
I'm confused. I think I understand what you're saying. Let's see if I'm right:|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
And then the list of powersets which work under the "new" system (ie: don't cause weapons to redraw) are... weapon sets, which already don't cause weapons to redraw
|
The sets BaBs has "fixed" are weapon sets (since they're the only sets that suffer from re-draw). This means that if you are in combat range and use a power that causes the weapon to "sheath" (okay, I know, it just vanishes...), and THEN use a power that uses the weapon, rather than re-drawing the weapon, it will insta-appear and fire the attack.
This means that, for example, if you have a DB/Regen, rather than having to re-draw every time you use one of your secondary powers, you can just keep attacking.
The way I've read your comments, it sounds like you think this change will only affect powers used in the powersets mentioned, so if another power not in those powersets is used, redraw will still occur. This is not the case. The fix is that those powersets will not redraw if you are in range of target. That's it. End of story. Doesn't matter what other powers you have or use, if you fire off one of the weapon powers from those powersets, and you are in range of the target, there is no draw animation.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Quote:
I presume we're can't choose the way it is now vs the 'magical teleporting swords and guns' ?|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Good news everyone, I think I have figured out a way to bypass weapon redraw in combat. I've tested it with with various non-weapon powers or weapon powers from completely different sets, and it seems to work out. This means that you will be able to use any power in a chain with a weapon power, and not have to redraw the weapon...even completely different weapon powers. It will just instantly appear in your hand and play the attack animation. If you're not in combat, out of range, or have no target selected...then it will play a non-rooted, interruptible version of the weapon draw animations.
Some minor issues with consistently playing a weapon draw animation outside of combat, or the weapon draw animation playing when it really does need to...but that shouldn't interfere with combat. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to get to every powerset at once, but I was able to get the following powersets done.
|
Sorry BAB's, can't please everyone.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Good news everyone, I think I have figured out a way to bypass weapon redraw in combat. I've tested it with with various non-weapon powers or weapon powers from completely different sets, and it seems to work out. This means that you will be able to use any power in a chain with a weapon power, and not have to redraw the weapon...even completely different weapon powers. It will just instantly appear in your hand and play the attack animation. If you're not in combat, out of range, or have no target selected...then it will play a non-rooted, interruptible version of the weapon draw animations.
Some minor issues with consistently playing a weapon draw animation outside of combat, or the weapon draw animation playing when it really does need to...but that shouldn't interfere with combat. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to get to every powerset at once, but I was able to get the following powersets done.
|
*checks calendar* not april 1st
*checks ouro* no babs in there to ouro back to april 1st
*checks mother mayhems' proximity to paragon studios* nah shes not in range
Curses!! I now have to consider weapons sets to as playable, non annoying characters! Oh the horror of choices! I might have to get my katana/BS/battleaxe guys past level 22 now!
This of course leads into the obligatory, "Castle! Can we pweeeese have BS/Katana for broots in GR? Pwetty pweeese wid a wabbid on top?" =P
@bpphantom: you mean as opposed to the magically teleporting to your hand as you reach behind your back or hips that we have now? Cant we just RP that our magically teleporting nacks and hips have transferred their powers to our hands? =D
Quote:
Yesterday night (on live) I saw a Shield/Super Strength Tanker (not my own character) run toward a group of mobs and hit Hurl. He dipped his right hand down to scoop up the concrete chunk (left hand had the shield, I understand that Shields has a different animation from the two-hands-free sets) while sliding toward the enemy, and lofted the chunk without slowing down.|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
More specificity here would help. Which power exactly are you using that allows you to slide around?
|
It was a bug. An awesomely cool-looking bug.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
Hurl seems to not root at time, but then again it sometimes occurs on a LOT of powers.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Yesterday night (on live) I saw a Shield/Super Strength Tanker (not my own character) run toward a group of mobs and hit Hurl. He dipped his right hand down to scoop up the concrete chunk (left hand had the shield, I understand that Shields has a different animation from the two-hands-free sets) while sliding toward the enemy, and lofted the chunk without slowing down.
It was a bug. An awesomely cool-looking bug. |
One time I was running around on my bow/TA corr, cackling as rooting seemed to have broken that night. Hit and run had never been more feasible. The animations weren't working, but it was still funny.
Short: All powers seem to sometimes skip rooting, variably.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
It's like Christmas (Or your winter holiday of choice) came early!
Also, I too had the Prof. Farnsworth voice in my head when I saw that.
MY question is, are we gonna see that Mutant booster before the new year? I'm guessing not.
Hello, my name is @Caligdoiel and I'm an altoholic.
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't anyone who's played with the elemental weapon powers technically seen it?
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I assumed you haven't seen it, because this was only present in a fairly exotic bug which, at the time when I reported it, no-one seemed to have seen. |
Quote:
I had a similar thought. Regardless of the heehawing going on in this thread since BAB's announcement, I'm still giddy as a schoolgirl.|
Originally Posted by Shadow State
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't anyone who's played with the elemental weapon powers technically seen it?
|
I've been waiting for this change for a LONG time and I'm looking forward to hammering it out on test to the best of my ability as soon as it hits.
The more I pondered it this morning while getting ready for work, the more I realized just how many things were going to change in the way I play.
My current hunstman build on my SoA is getting tossed. Without redraw issues annoying the hell out of me, I'll be more than happy to add in several of the mace attacks.
I JUST respeced Bill Z Bubba again on a lark, and now I'm going to have to seriously consider the fire APP on his secondary build. Followup, Spin, Eviscerate, Shockwave, Fireball is a hell of a lot of AoE damage output.
The thought of my claws/wp brute being able to do followup, slash, focus, gloom, repeat sends shivers of min/max ecstasy through me.
I'll actually consider archery again. Perhaps an archery/dark or archery/storm corruptor.
And the list keeps getting larger.
I really hope that BAB can find the time to write up a full explanation on what the fix is and how it came to find it in such a short time after stating in this thread how problematic it might be. My curiosity is killing me.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
It's awesomest when it happens with Full Auto.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Hurl seems to not root at time, but then again it sometimes occurs on a LOT of powers.
One time I was running around on my bow/TA corr, cackling as rooting seemed to have broken that night. Hit and run had never been more feasible. The animations weren't working, but it was still funny. Short: All powers seem to sometimes skip rooting, variably. |
No love for AR is
, but I'm used to the redraw anyway by now. My Archery/Dev will be happy.As for people complaining about weapons appearing out of thin air, where exactly are you stashing that giant gun/sword/battleaxe in your skintight spandex?
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Quote:
Neat! Now only if we could get rid of rooting! (I know this would be a lot more difficult from the animation standpoint though |
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Good news everyone, I think I have figured out a way to bypass weapon redraw in combat. I've tested it with with various non-weapon powers or weapon powers from completely different sets, and it seems to work out. This means that you will be able to use any power in a chain with a weapon power, and not have to redraw the weapon...even completely different weapon powers. It will just instantly appear in your hand and play the attack animation. If you're not in combat, out of range, or have no target selected...then it will play a non-rooted, interruptible version of the weapon draw animations.
Some minor issues with consistently playing a weapon draw animation outside of combat, or the weapon draw animation playing when it really does need to...but that shouldn't interfere with combat. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to get to every powerset at once, but I was able to get the following powersets done.
|
)
Awesome news about the redraw stuff.
Just an idle question relevant to this thread: I notice on my melee characters that when activating various toggles, the weapons remain in my hand. But when activating clicks in the same powerset, the weapon indeed disappears. For instance on an /SR, when activating Focused Fighting, Focused Senses, or Evasion, the weapon remains visible at all times, while activating Practiced Brawler or Elude makes it disappear.
So my question is: What is the difference between these powers, or why do the weapons disappear for clicks but remain visible for toggles? Is it a sword-through-the-head issue or something else?