Here we go again...

If your character is having endurance issues... then slot for more endurance reduction. It's really not that hard. I build all of my characters to be endurance-self-sufficient from level 1 on. That way as I level up and attain more powers, their endurance use is still balanced.

So that at EVERY level, no matter WHAT I do with my character, I NEVER run out of endurance. With the sole exception of the Nuke, of course. But that can't be helped.

Reptlbrain:
In that example, it WAS a team of 8, but the number of people made no difference to the PPs chance to hit me, which was the point of the reference. Further, an attack that does more than one tick of damage (such as an Energy Blast, which does a tick of smashing and a tick of energy) can circumvent the oneshot code. DOT can also so this.

Air Superiority is suprisingly effective at knocking foes down, and since I needed to be near the action to provide Dispersion Bubble protection to the team, I actually found it quite effective using the melee attacks. Boxing does very little damage, but has a disorient chance, which can stack with other stun effects.

Panzerwaffen:
If you reread the post you'll find that it supports the notion that Defenders can be rather powerful, which is what you've been arguing all along. However, in your need to be contrary, you've obviously missed this. Your post isn't trolling in this case, but amounts to "what you're reporting didn't happen."

As for my unmanageable build...

Westley:
The character is having endurance issues because of his attacks, mainly. Even with Stamina and all the attacks double slotted for endurance, I'm out of endurance after one or two minions. That's with only Dispersion Bubble, Weave and Manuevers running. Heaven help me if I run Tough and Assault, too.

If you're not ever running out of endurance, I can't imagine what you're doing, short of IOs and accolades.

The problem is one not exclusive to Defenders, in this case. Because the Defender's attacks do half the damage of a Scrapper (for example), he's forced to attack twice as often to defeat the same foe. This means he's using double the endurance the Scrapper does. Tankers suffer from this too. OF course, this really has little to do with Force Fields...

Now that he's mentioned Boxing and Air Superiority, it's clear that Ultimo is still trying to go for his melee/ranged/FF Iron Man concept and hasn't changed his build at all. Endurance complaints are probably due to him still running Tough and Weave like in the last thread.

Otherwise:

My wee level 4 FF/Psi Defender managed to keep the Snow Beasts on their behinds in the Winter Event trial yesterday just by using Force Bolt. Once I focused on one, it couldn't get any attacks off. How is that "limited" mitigation?

Whew. One exam down, two more to go... Time to hit the forum for a bit...


Milady:
I've played Energy Blast (on my Blaster, on a Corruptor, on a Dominator and on Defenders) and Force Fields (on my Defender and Mastermind) since I started playing. I do know that knockback has its uses. I'm jyst saying that those uses are somewhat limited. On most attacks there is only a chance for knockback to occur, and even then there are many foes that are immune to it. Further, in order for it to work, you have to attack and HIT your target. This makes it far less reliable than a defensive toggle.

I'll point out that your FF/Dark has additional mitigation from the Dark Blasts. In any case, didn't you chafe at the idea of taking 27 minutes to accomplish something another AT might have accomplished in 5 minutes?

Slotting for Knockback - does it increase the liklihood of knockback happening? If not, then I don't see how it helps any more than not slotting for it. Foes will still be standing up just as quickly, just somewhat further away.

1) If Power Sink is debuffing an enemy to ineffectiveness, then that's where the character is getting his defense, not from the FFs.

2) I'll agree, the DF would have been useful in that situation, but it's another of those outside circumstances (and he hadn't used MoG or any other such power in any case - we were wiped out before we even did a quarter of his health).


Monkey:
Yes, this is Technaught, and he has Boxing. If you can tell me how to get to Weave without getting Boxing (or Kick), I'd be happy to hear it.

Bouncing one beast mitigates only his damage. The others were still attacking you normally with only the Dispersion Bubble protecting you. Force Bolt (like Air Superiority) can be wonderful when facing bosses that you can bounce around (I love fighting War Hulks for this reason; even my Tanker uses AS in place of Punch), but in most of the content, when you're facing groups, it's of very limited value.


Catwhoorg:
Yes, it IS the case that that is my opinion. That's what it means when I say "I think."

I agree with the usefulness of Force Bolt and Air Superiority (as I mentioned above). I'm just saying that that usefulness is limited by the situation, where a toggle for personal defense would not be.


Reptl:
The main problem with the PP was that no one could hit it. I suspect Super Reflexes and being +5 to be the root of that.

Yeah, Boxing is of limited value, but when paired with another attack you're going to use anyway, it can help to allow a stun to happen where it might not have done otherwise (for example, when hitting a boss with Dispersion Bomb, I often start with Boxing on the off chance that it will stack the stun so the Dispersion Bomb stun will take effect). Not terribly reliable, but I have to take the power if I want Weave.

It's not nonsense. That's what's happening. Yesterday I attacked a group of Rikti next to the base in the RWZ. There was a white conn Communications Officer, a White conn Infantry a Yellow Headman and an Orange Gunner. I opened with the Dispersion Bomb (to stun them so I'd have time to take out the Comm Officer), then attacked the Comm Officer with my main attacks. Power Bolts, Blast and Burst. By then, the others were moving around again, so I used Explosive Blast to knock them around. I was now virtually out of endurance. THe Gunner got up and shot me once, reducing me to half health, the Infantry shot me once and reduced me a bit more, so with no endurance and diminishing health, I had to PFF. This HAPPENED. You can't tell me it didn't I was kind of there. Oh, I had Dispersion Bubble, Weave, Tough, Manuevers and Assault running.

AAARRRGGGHHH. That quote is driving me MAD. I know I know it, but can't think of the source...

Change Deflection Shield to a toggle that offers the normal (or slightly lowered) buffs to allies but also adds a defense debuff effect to all of the defenders attacks. Do the same to Insulation Shield but make it a damage resistance debuff.

This would improve a FF defender's offensive ability and also cut down on the need to constantly reapply buffs to teammates.


>

So let me see if I understand you. Force Bolt, with it's high-mag knockback, is a negligible defense, but Air Superiority, a melee knockdown, and Boxing, with a miniscule chance to stun, are useful defenses? What?

Also, your talk about running out of end before wiping out a couple mobs is flat out untrue, and everyone here knows it. If you are actually slotting two endredux in each attack, and you have stamina, then no, you are not running out of end in two mobs. Why do you expect us to believe that you operate under a completely different set of game mechanics than we do? I suspect, as others have mentioned, that one of two things is really going on. Either you are running numerous other toggles and are not reporting them, or you are lying.

on preview: Catwhoorg hits it on the head with numbers. What you report isn't happening, and I will happily tell you that it didn't happen, regardless of whether you were there or not. Either something's being left out, or you're just lying. I guess really they are the same thing. Here's what I think is really going on: you have a character concept that you want to shoehorn FF into and it just isn't working. You want to solo +4/8 spawns with ff/nrg and when you can't you create a sort of strawman out of the powerset so you can knock it around and claim that the powerset is to blame. You know perfectly well that what you actually want is unreasonable and unlikely to happen, so you create an imaginary scenario and present it as fact, hoping nobody will call you on it. Sadly, some of us play FF and are pretty good at it, so your BS is not gonna fly here. I now understand why some of the folks who came into your thread seemed a little short of patience with you.

Oh, and

As for the resistant /Non resistant argument.

I did a couple of 'sorts' in excel on my copy of CHres.xls
(eternal thanks to Culex and the other contributors).

There were 1588 critter types in the sheet
411 of them have some sort of knock protection.
135 AVs (Several AVs have different powers accoridng to their level and so have mutliple entries)
17 Elite Bosses
17 Bosses (Ignoring Boss Turrets and other immobiles like Faathim imprisioned)
23 Lts (mostly due to fly)
23 Minions (mostly due to fly)

The rest of them being objects, turrets and the unusual 'entities' like Steel Canyon fires

There are 364 Boss class entities than are flagged as no knock resistance.

(My version of CHres is dated Dec 2008 - I am sure there may be a newer one)

I saw three 'AVs' Tagged as vulnerable to knock.
Cadabra Kill and Sigil (mislabelled in game, they really are Boss/Lt class)
Jade Spider

Recalculating the endurance used by the attacks and cranking in 3 slotted stamina (and still assuming no endred in the toggles - and dispersion bubble is .52/s, not 1.04/s), he ought to be out a net of about 29.41 end over that 8 second period. That's not even *close* to being "virtually out of endurance". He would've had to use the same string at least 3 times to even come close. Which, of course, means that he's not telling us the whole story. There's not just a missing attack or two in there, there's two or three entire attack strings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimo_ What I described happened. You can't tell me it didn't.

Actually, ya, we kinda can, when what you're describing blatantly contradicts well-known game mechanics. What you said *could not have happened*. Not even if you backpedal and say 'maybe I made an attack I'm not recalling'.

If you truly recall that, then all I can say is that you must have a poor memory to forget the dozen or so extra attacks it would have taken to run you out of endurance. In that case, you should demorecord yourself or something so that you can give an accurate recounting of events, since your memory is obviously unreliable.

Otherwise I would suggest you think your stories through a bit more carefully. You're not likely to be able to slip anything past the various mathematically literate forumites here.

Quote:

It's only unfortunate that people ignore the suggestion so they can complain about my MAKING the suggestion, or the manner in which I make it.

If you want to suggest changes to a powerset and you try to justify why such changes should be made, that means that your justification is a perfectly legitimate topic of discussion. You're the one who advanced these stories to support your argument for changes. If you don't want people to discuss them, perhaps you shouldn't offer them? If your argument is 'my defender is incapable of soloing, hence FF needs buffs' and the statements you advance to support your justification can be shown to be made up out of thin air, I hardly think you have any grounds to complain when people point that out.

If you want people to discuss the suggestions, I would suggest that you either don't try to justify them, or refrain from fabricating your justifications out of whole cloth. Otherwise I doubt anyone will pay them much attention, and rightly so.