Scrapper or Brute
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2009-11-22 15:23 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I prefer Brutes because they get a taunt aura and don't have to go chasing mobs all over the map, as is the case with (certain) Scrappers (builds) >_<
Brutes have a taunt aura? I thought that was the inherent for a tanker....
In any case, I'd go with a Brute, fury bar > random crit imo.
Quote:
A Brute's attacks generate a small amount of taunt, but not as much as tankers' inherent.|
Originally Posted by beyeajus74018
Brutes have a taunt aura? I thought that was the inherent for a tanker....
In any case, I'd go with a Brute, fury bar > random crit imo. |
He may also be referring to the damage auras in some brute secondaries which are pretty effective for taunting.
I'd also go brute.
Graphics better redside
Gameplay better redside
Missions don't send you across multiple zones fifteen times every level
Being bad is so much fun!
I also love the "hybrid" ATs of redside so much more than blueside. Brutes are a mix of tanker and scrapper, and while not quite as good as either job as those pure ATs, are more versatile and able to adapt to more situations as a result.
As for secondaries, I have both a /elec and a /wp. I have to say I think the /WP is definitely more solo friendly, especially at higher levels, but both are definitely solo-able. I just personally find /elec more challenging.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
I prefer scrappers. None of this 'building fury' lark. Straight out shredding from the moment you enter the mission door.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
Brute punchvoke is single target, so yes I meant the taunt auras in their secondaries (Blazing Aura, Invincibility, Evasion, etc).
|
Originally Posted by Smurch
A Brute's attacks generate a small amount of taunt, but not as much as tankers' inherent.
|
Hey Silverado did you ever play Anarchy Online? The name sounds familiar to me.
Also, anymore ideas on whether WP or Elec will serve me better down the line? Thanks all!
Atomic Funk
Got more funky styles than my laserjet got font
For a brute, WP will be easier and more forgiving than Elec. I have both and while I LOVE my Elec/Elec brute, if you're new to the Archetype, WP is probably easier to get a handle on than Elec. I'd say go for the WP first and then do an Elec.
Regeneration is also a forgiving and easy to learn to use secondary. It has several heals, of various flavors that can be very useful, particularly as you learn.
Geni
I thought that certain scrapper secondaries, like Invuln, WP, and Fiery aura all had taunt components to them.
It all really comes down to preference really. If you like doing dmg that is reliable and consistent, a scrapper is a good roll. Brutes have soaring highs, but you don't always feel like a god to be honest. Sometimes, you feel like a squishy tank or other times like a well built scrapper. I like brutes and scrappers- it all comes down to whether I am in a red or blue mood. Roll both!
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Quote:
Yes, I did.|
Originally Posted by Atomic_Funk
Hey Silverado did you ever play Anarchy Online? The name sounds familiar to me.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by magikwand
I thought that certain scrapper secondaries, like Invuln, WP, and Fiery aura all had taunt components to them.
|
Both Brutes and Scrappers are excellent solo toons. I started with scrappers, and went brute on 'most At type' after CoV came out.
On average, for most players (especially solo), numerically speaking, both ATs perform very similarly survivability and damage wise.
Notable exceptions are:
On Survivability:
Fire/ElA cap their top resist at 90% on brutes and 75% on scrappers, other than these two instances you will not see the res cap on your brute solo.
WP with high HP. Brutes have higher Hp and a higher Hp cap. If you build a WP toon with as much HP as you can tack on him, you can easily hit 100 hp/sec regeneration on him, making him a very tough cookie. Scrapper WP is awesome, but slightly less survivably (emphasis on slightly).
Defense based Toons: SR and SD (no EA for now) toons' survivability is mostly a factor of their proximity to the defense cap (SD gets more toys but thats too much detail). Essentially my DM/SR scrapper and my DM/SR brute are identical insurvivability, save for the puny teensy bit more HP the brute has, which is insignifiant, the only thing that kills me on those toons is being hit twice in a row and the first hit takes me to 10% hp on both toons anyway. Summary: Def based scrappers are basically the same survivability as Def based brutes with the same secondary.
Brute primaries (for now) are mostly the tanker seconbdaries. Basically the main reason why brutes feel more survivable is their primary powers' mitigation. SS, SM, ElM all have serious mitigation built into them in forms of KD, stun, etc. These take a big bite off incoming damage and make most brutes feel more survivable. This point might be moot with proliferation brining the same availability to scrappers though
On Damage:
In most everyday circumstances, both ATs do the same damage, period. Brutes ramp up fury and do slightly more than unbuffed scrappers while scrappers burst with crits and both toons on average are in the same ballpark. Some specific primaries and secondaries, and some specific situations break this mold.
Scrappers beneift a lot more from Dam Buffs. Not only is their Dam buff a bigger number usually, but the benefit of the dam buf on their higher base damage is more. What I am saying is, when a scrapper uses a self damage buff, he starts dealing more damage than a brute under the same self damage buff.
Most importantly sets that can perma their damage buff or have a perma damage buff perform significantly better for scrappers. A perma soul drain DM scrapper will be pushing more damage than the perma SD, DM Brute, almost all the time. I say almost since it depends on how many enemies available to fuel SD. If you only have one enemy in range the brute with fury cap will outdamage the scrapper with only one toon to fuel SD. But if you have ten enemies fuelling SD, the scrapper will outdamage the burte even at full fury. Same goes for Shield Defense's dam buff.
At this point I think the most significant factor for choosing Brute or Scrapper, is still the content available to blue/red and the primaries/secondaries available to the ATs. Those make a lot more of a difference than the little percentage here and there of better or worse performance under XYZ conditions.
Another bonus, brutes get a freakin awesome fist icon. I mean nothing says badass like a fist to the face for an icon man.
Quote:
While it is true that brutes are behind tankers in survivability, I'm not exactly sure where you think they are behind scrappers in some regard. They have equal or superior survivability to a scrapper and comparable or superior damage. Their only liability is getting the head of steam going in fury. |
Originally Posted by Smurch
I also love the "hybrid" ATs of redside so much more than blueside. Brutes are a mix of tanker and scrapper, and while not quite as good as either job as those pure ATs, are more versatile and able to adapt to more situations as a result. |
Personally I find the fury mechanic very amusing, so I have a hard time even playing a scrapper anymore.
Too many alts to list.
Solo or teamed ?
Brutes solo or small team against large spawns exceptionally well. They have more hitpoints than scrappers and they gain fury from BEING ATTACKED as well as attacking. Teamed you can find yourself competing for aggro with other brutes and wondering why your fury isn't going up because the dominator locked down the spawn.
Scrappers love teams by comparison. Less things attacking them has no downside for them and their damage is their damage.
Quote:
I've never really had that issue. I've rarely seen more than two brutes on a team, and you can generally always can get enough aggro to keep fury up. Though if you have your attack chain set up right, you can keep fury up that way in any case. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Solo or teamed ?
Brutes solo or small team against large spawns exceptionally well. They have more hitpoints than scrappers and they gain fury from BEING ATTACKED as well as attacking. Teamed you can find yourself competing for aggro with other brutes and wondering why your fury isn't going up because the dominator locked down the spawn. Scrappers love teams by comparison. Less things attacking them has no downside for them and their damage is their damage. |
Also on teams the brute can get buffed to truly godly status.
Too many alts to list.
Quote:
Hm. from the standpoint of a mainly /dark brute, whose auras stop incoming attacks, this is not a concern, ever. As long as you always have an attack as soon as the last finished, in a good chain, and don't stop between spawns, (rushing from one to the next) your offense alone will give you full enough fury. (Note: this from an EM/ standpoint, which has several fast attacks. Not sure how it compares to slower primaries.)
|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Solo or teamed ?
Brutes solo or small team against large spawns exceptionally well. They have more hitpoints than scrappers and they gain fury from BEING ATTACKED as well as attacking. Teamed you can find yourself competing for aggro with other brutes and wondering why your fury isn't going up because the dominator locked down the spawn. Scrappers love teams by comparison. Less things attacking them has no downside for them and their damage is their damage. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
I've never really had that issue. I've rarely seen more than two brutes on a team, and you can generally always can get enough aggro to keep fury up. Though if you have your attack chain set up right, you can keep fury up that way in any case.
Also on teams the brute can get buffed to truly godly status. |
Its not so much a problem as it appears to be a balancing mechanic. If you are building fury by just your own attacks you are going need get about 24 attacks off before your damage bonus is at 100% (YMMV) it takes a godawful number to get above 150%. You can test this yourself just go to the rikti war zone and pound on a dummy
now if you turn on your shields and go and stand in the middle of a group of enemies, you can hit 170% without even firing a shot or doing anything to maintain it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Hm. from the standpoint of a mainly /dark brute, whose auras stop incoming attacks, this is not a concern, ever. As long as you always have an attack as soon as the last finished, in a good chain, and don't stop between spawns, (rushing from one to the next) your offense alone will give you full enough fury. (Note: this from an EM/ standpoint, which has several fast attacks. Not sure how it compares to slower primaries.)
|
Stopped attacks still count. Just have an SR or a shield brute stand in the middle of a spawn and watch the fury rise. Edit: Don't know about cloak of fear
Quote:
Nono, I think I need to be clearer. /Dark Armor brutes stop nearby enemies from attacking at all, via cloak of fear and/or oppressive gloom. The defensive character get attacked, but avoid the damage. /Dark can disable a large number of foes from being able to fire any attacks. Yet somehow whilst doing so, even under the severely reduced attacks they can squeeze out, I can solo a mission at full fury. (Oh, and all the Energy Melee attacks can disable counter-attacks, some more regularly than others.)
|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Stopped attacks still count. Just have an SR or a shield brute stand in the middle of a spawn and watch the fury rise.
|
The answer to this question is always BRUTE.
Quote:
.....and back on topic: this.|
Originally Posted by JDub
The answer to this question is always BRUTE.
|
Caveat? If you can set the pace.
Scrappers fare better in situations where a team stops and waits. Elsewise, all the number comparisons I've seen for offence are so close it's silly to quibble over. This with more toughness.
The only price to pay is a fairly rabid playstyle.
Quote:
This is the source of much love/hate with me and Brutes. I don't particularly enjoy the fury mechanic. I hate trying to watch it and jumping into a spawn with no fury and trying to decide if using a power is worth it or not.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
I prefer scrappers. None of this 'building fury' lark. Straight out shredding from the moment you enter the mission door.
|
However, done right, Brutes are just superior to Scrappers. I hate to have to admit it, because I really like Scrappers. But of all my 50s, I have more Brutes than anything. And toons over 30 as well. I've made some failed Brutes, but the ones I stuck with are better than Scrappers of the same sort.
Defensively Brutes are better. They just are, numerically. Brutes I have go over the Scrapper HP cap, or over their RES cap. Even with other sets, the Brutes just have more HP, heal for more, and regen for more.
Offensively, as long as a Brute has high fury, the damage is outdoing a Scrapper. I think it's crazy that Brutes are better defensively AND offensively, but that's how it is. I believe the highest damage dealer of the melees should be Stalkers, then Scrappers, then Brutes, then Tanks. But it was designed in a skewed way so that Brutes are far higher overall, and Stalkers far lower overall.
Competing for aggro can be an issue as my EM/WP Brute can tell you (she's one of the failed ones). Having more than one Brute on a team can be problematic. Scrappers stack better and get that "start high" ability, but for the types of toons I play, the kinds of teams I run with, and the sort of content I do, there's no way a Scrapper could beat a Brute defensively OR offensively. Not that I don't still love Scrappers.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Atomic_Funk
I am interested in playing a Claws character and have been mulling over whether to go Brute or Scrapper. I am mostly a soloer and having just returned to game and chosen a new server, I am not worried about uber builds and the like. The secondaries I am interested in are /Elec, /WP, and /SR. Elec looks good from a visual point of view, whereas WP and SR seem to look better on paper for a solo player. Any thoughts from the community out there? I am mostly looking for something fun, capable soloer, and team contribution down the line.
Thank you! Atomic Funk |
Both Scrappers and Brutes are fun capable soloers, and both offer team contributions down the line.
Scrappers are a bit more unfettered in groups and generally aren't expected to do more than run around and flip out on stuff. They do this really well.
Brutes also run around and flip out on stuff, but are also often expected or needed to take alpha strikes and hold aggro. This can sometimes be tough while leveling, but is often preferable once you can handle it as it's great for building/maintaining fury.
Out of the 3 secondaries you mentioned, Willpower will be the easiest and most forgiving to level.
Taking everything into consideration, I would choose based on your preference of redside vs. blueside and whether you like the fury mechanic or not.
Thank you for all the advice.
I decided to go with a Claws/Willpower Brute and so far he is a blast. I am level 8 and have Swipe, Strike, Spin, High Pain Tolerance, Fast Healing, and Swift.
Fury+Multiple Mobs+Spin=Gravy!
While I feel I like Blueside more than Redside, I came up with a good concept and character which has allowed me to enjoy Redside more!
Thank you!
Atomic Funk
Got more funky styles than my laserjet got font
Quote:
I see you've decided, but for the reference of others, I'd suggest:|
Originally Posted by Atomic_Funk
I am interested in playing a Claws character and have been mulling over whether to go Brute or Scrapper. I am mostly a soloer and having just returned to game and chosen a new server, I am not worried about uber builds and the like. The secondaries I am interested in are /Elec, /WP, and /SR. Elec looks good from a visual point of view, whereas WP and SR seem to look better on paper for a solo player. Any thoughts from the community out there? I am mostly looking for something fun, capable soloer, and team contribution down the line.
Thank you! Atomic Funk |
Try and characterize your psychology.
Are you more accurately described as suffering from ADHD, or would you consider yourself as suffering from suppressed hostility, or alternatively from obsessive compulsive issues?
If you're more along the lines of the former, I'd suggest the scrapper, if the latter two describe you better, go with the brute.
If you suffer from both attention deficit and from hyperagressive issues, well, either AT will probably entertain you thoroughly.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Quote:
And the truth shall set you free.|
Originally Posted by Atomic_Funk
Thank you for all the advice.
I decided to go with a Claws/Willpower Brute and so far he is a blast. I am level 8 and have Swipe, Strike, Spin, High Pain Tolerance, Fast Healing, and Swift. Fury+Multiple Mobs+Spin=Gravy! While I feel I like Blueside more than Redside, I came up with a good concept and character which has allowed me to enjoy Redside more! Thank you! Atomic Funk |
Good choice.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
All of the above really, though more towards the ADHD (which I actually have). I went with the brute since I liked the Fury concept. As mentioned I came up with a good villain concept for myself that works well for a Claws Brute.|
Originally Posted by Spiritchaser
I see you've decided, but for the reference of others, I'd suggest:
Try and characterize your psychology. Are you more accurately described as suffering from ADHD, or would you consider yourself as suffering from suppressed hostility, or alternatively from obsessive compulsive issues? If you're more along the lines of the former, I'd suggest the scrapper, if the latter two describe you better, go with the brute. If you suffer from both attention deficit and from hyperagressive issues, well, either AT will probably entertain you thoroughly. |
Good advice though!
If anyone is on Freedom villain side, my name is Overclocker.
Got more funky styles than my laserjet got font
I am interested in playing a Claws character and have been mulling over whether to go Brute or Scrapper. I am mostly a soloer and having just returned to game and chosen a new server, I am not worried about uber builds and the like. The secondaries I am interested in are /Elec, /WP, and /SR. Elec looks good from a visual point of view, whereas WP and SR seem to look better on paper for a solo player. Any thoughts from the community out there? I am mostly looking for something fun, capable soloer, and team contribution down the line.
Thank you!
Atomic Funk
Got more funky styles than my laserjet got font