Level 50 disenchanted - turbo levelling
Yes, sure it is powerleveling. But my point is, would a newcomer know? (AND care?)
When you get invited to a team (Nice people!) while arresting your first purse snatchers, and they go to the sewers (cool place and as good as any when you are new and have seen nothing yet), and its fast and efficient and you rock, will you assume that is cheating, or complain its going too fast?
And simply going to the sewers or doing TFs (I read in another topic about diversity of content you can level to like 40 or so just by doing the level-appropriate TFs in their order, never tried that myself) clearly is nothing wrong. Its what they are there for. And hey, it's good that they are there.
But I wouldnt want people to hit 50 in a week through that (after all, especially with a good team, the only requirement for fast leveling is a steady supply of appropriate enemies, as opposed to much running/searching and little fighting, and sewers and TFs can provide that.) and think the game that they hardly learned anything of has little to offer.
But I was only asking if it's just me. Might be I just worry too much.
It is my real first name, and here's a fun fact: If people can remember the T... somehow those people almost always forget the second E.
Strange... |
[color=#b0b0b0]Again, its not about myself (or him) but more about potential new players that hit 50 the turbo way, think this was it, and find the game is pointless if max level is reached like that and all content is like what they saw.
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All the more reason for the stop-and-smell-the-roses types to get those new players first.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
Call me crazy, and I know there are exceptions to this, but I don't expect a new player's first instincts to be "Must. Level. Fast. How do I do that?" |
If you give people a button that will instanly level-cap them complete with top-of-the-line gear and such, most MMO players will press it. Then find out there is nothing to do and blame you for ruining the game by giving them the button. This is why "more flexibility is always better" is completely false.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Yes, sure it is powerleveling. But my point is, would a newcomer know? (AND care?)
When you get invited to a team (Nice people!) while arresting your first purse snatchers, and they go to the sewers (cool place and as good as any when you are new and have seen nothing yet), and its fast and efficient and you rock, will you assume that is cheating, or complain its going too fast? And simply going to the sewers or doing TFs (I read in another topic about diversity of content you can level to like 40 or so just by doing the level-appropriate TFs in their order, never tried that myself) clearly is nothing wrong. Its what they are there for. And hey, it's good that they are there. But I wouldnt want people to hit 50 in a week through that (after all, especially with a good team, the only requirement for fast leveling is a steady supply of appropriate enemies, as opposed to much running/searching and little fighting, and sewers and TFs can provide that.) and think the game that they hardly learned anything of has little to offer. But I was only asking if it's just me. Might be I just worry too much. |
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This is kind of strange to me. On the one hand we have people saying the servers are dead and they can never find a team for anything ever, and on the other hand, now we're worrying about people finding too many teams of too many people which will level them up too fast. I honestly don't know what to think any more.
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I just invite them to my team as we go along at a normal pace That way the fast levellers go crazy and the normal teaming people . . . well they go crazy too for having to listen to me
Make him stop! I'll feed the poor i promise!
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I just tried to it, trying to be fast once, and 10 minutes after hitting 2, at level 3.2 from street swiping, got indeed invited to a sewer team. We had a level 50 come with us that buffed us all to invincibility. When we stopped 1 hour and 11 minutes after the invite, I was level 10 and four pips. From then on I sucked a bit at trying to be fast, having a hard time finding level-appropriate mobs in the Hollows where I went to, and just did the missions there. Still took only 1:06 more to get to 12, 2:46 total to 12 and one third when it was dinnertime.
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Very roughly speaking, the halfway for time spent leveling is around 35, not 25. Time to level is not linear. There are many factors involved, including:
- XP required to next level, which is a function of current level
- XP per foe, which is a function of current level
- HP per foe, which is a function of foe level (which is also related to current level).
- Damage per attack, which is a function of current level.
In other words, measuring the time it takes to get to level 12 and proclaiming it to be a measure of a problem isn't sensible. If you have a valid argument (not something I'm saying) this isn't the evidence you want.
More to the point, though, measuring leveling speed with the help of a 50 isn't reasonable. To make that argument stick, you need to show that the majority of players level up this way, or if you cannot do that, show that the speed of leveling without such crutches is still "too fast" (preferably by showing leveling speed to a much higher, harder-to reach benchmark than level 10).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
My two bits FWIW:
If you're able to get to level 45, not being 50 is rather pointless. By 45 you can access all of the content except Epic ATs, if you haven't already hit a 50.
What's really the difference? 2 powers and 9 slots? I believe your inspiration try is maxed out by lvl 40. About the only thing a 50 really gets you is the ability to optimize your character from the ground up without worrying about leveling up on the fly.
Now on the other hand if you feel like the first 45 levels are a pointless, yet quick, grind. The you really have to re-examine how're you're playing.
The biggest thing though is characters are a work in progress, there's always something you can do with them if you've already invested that much time into them.
Sure, I'd like to see more 45-50 level content, but I'll be patient since it looks like the Devs have been busy with Going Rogue.
"Steady as a mountain, attack like fire, still as a wood, swift as the wind.
In heaven and earth I alone am to be revered."
- Motto on the war banner of Takeda Shingen (1521-1573)
It is the first thing the typical MMO player thinks of, actually.
If you give people a button that will instanly level-cap them complete with top-of-the-line gear and such, most MMO players will press it. Then find out there is nothing to do and blame you for ruining the game by giving them the button. This is why "more flexibility is always better" is completely false. |
If that's where you need to go to defend it your argument is even weaker than I thought.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I didn't see it posted on the first page, so I'll just mention it incase no one else did.
If you find yourself leveling to fast, but don't want to turn off the XP. Level Pact with someone who has no intention of leveling the toon.
You just halved your xp
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yes, leveling is too fast, yes, the game is too easy, and no, the entrenched user base will never admit either even while they're wondering why the game isn't growing any more.
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If you think it's too fast, the tools are there to slow it down.
If you think it's too easy, the tools are there to increase the difficulty. The more flexibility players are given, the better. |
If you give people a button that will instanly level-cap them complete with top-of-the-line gear and such, most MMO players will press it. Then find out there is nothing to do and blame you for ruining the game by giving them the button. This is why "more flexibility is always better" is completely false.
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Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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You do realize that the time it takes you to get to level 12 has virtually no bearing on what it takes you to get to 50?
Very roughly speaking, the halfway for time spent leveling is around 35, not 25. Time to level is not linear. |
In my estimate, the point of this change is to draw in more players via a somewhat questionable tourist trap approach - they start out and everything is amazingly fast and easy, but at around level 25 it slows down and begins to settle into the slower pace you'll see in the upper levels. You go from 10 levels a day to 2 levels a day, to half a level to one level a day in the upper levels (if you don't push yourself very hard). It may also be a prelude to the supposedly redesigned early game coming with Going Rogue.
Keep in mind, experience gains increase significantly if you boost your difficulty way up, but that's not something I'd be afraid a brand new player would do from level 1.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'd probably PL more if I had the connections or patience, because I love getting new powers and pools, and exploring everything I can do with a character. I want those epic power pools NOW!
Hmmm. I have pretty much always liked the level of time/difficulty it takes to get one of my alts to 50.
Long enough to make some new friends, and long enough to feel accomplishment.
Short enough that I seldom feel too bored or tired of running in a hamster wheel.
- There are BigMMOs that just seem to take forever to get to the LevelCap. and so much farming or fishing or crafting and lootbreaking to make you spin your tires, and slow ya down. . . .But then you make it to the top! Ooops, they moved the levelcap again, and now you have to hop back on the treadmill again. . . . I don't tend to make a lot of different alts in those. It would mean I don't have the shiniest lewt on my main guy, and he has to be as big and shiny as I can make him.
- Then, back in my misspent youth, I used to spend hours and hours, and lots of quarters on games like THIS, or THIS, in the arcades . . . I spent so much time and money, and played games over and over, till I could be one of the best, or reach the end. And I would finally finish, or lose all my lives, and . . . pop another quarter and start it all over again.
The 2nd, the arcades? Yeah, I got my instant fix and played them several times start to finish each outing, but in the end, getting to play PC or Nintendo, etc., without constantly having to pop over to get a new pocketful of quarters, drew me away.
"This bed is too Hard!" she said. "This one is too soft!" the muffled remark came. Goldilocks smiled, "Finally. This one's just right" |
Not too short
Not too endless.
I don't have to farm for l33t3r lewt if I don't want to.
I can work reasonably hard and top up a 50 in a 'just right' timeframe.
I can feel comfortable playing other alts at the same time I am taking him to 50, or while I play him post-50.
Or I can put that 50 on the shelf, create a new alt with a new AT, and/or a cool new concept/costume I have been planning for a while.
I can leave the 50 for months at a time, and come back and play that same alt, maybe with some new content or features, but STILL at the Top. I don't have to catch up to the levelcap again
I can do and have done all these things. and will continue.
Comfortable. just right. Fun!
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I think the leveling pace now is pretty much spot on - not too slow so you get frustrated, not too fast so you end up with no connection the the character.
It's also pretty clear to me that this game is about Alts nowdays, If you prefer having one character that you play all the time this might not be the best game for it.
You might think that a Stone/Ice tank is the same ride to 50 as a Shield/Fire tank - they are not. (for example)
Unfortunately, it's not the new players, it's the so-called vets they team up with, that think the new player must be PLed to appreciate the game. You can't blame the new players because they don't know. Unfortunately, there is a group of players that is bored and PLs every character they make, and because that's what =they= do, they naturally instruct new players to do it.
All the more reason for the stop-and-smell-the-roses types to get those new players first. --NT |
Quote:
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You do realize that the time it takes you to get to level 12 has virtually no bearing on what it takes you to get to 50?
Very roughly speaking, the halfway for time spent leveling is around 35, not 25. Time to level is not linear. There are many factors involved, including:
In other words, measuring the time it takes to get to level 12 and proclaiming it to be a measure of a problem isn't sensible. If you have a valid argument (not something I'm saying) this isn't the evidence you want. |
More to the point, though, measuring leveling speed with the help of a 50 isn't reasonable. To make that argument stick, you need to show that the majority of players level up this way, or if you cannot do that, show that the speed of leveling without such crutches is still "too fast" (preferably by showing leveling speed to a much higher, harder-to reach benchmark than level 10).
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But does the majority of players (on the majority of their character) try to level fast and efficient? Damn yes if you ask me. Sewer teams e.g. are definitely the state of the art blue side, because its so much faster than running to and fro between missions. And it works fine without a level 50 buffing everyone too with a big team. And you dont need to know of it, you usually get invites.
I think the sewers are cool and fun and whatever, but not a good start to learn the game features.
But since everyone seems to eager for a time to level to 50, I will expose myself and say I think it should not be below some 75 hours for a first-timer, even if he gets lucky invites to rewarding content, 60 for someone who knows exactly what to do, and I wouldnt even mind if it takes up to half a year of normal casual play. I hear compared to some games that's even still fast. That's a lot of room in between. Now you can bash.
Sure, veterans that want to try out a new idea at level 50 would rather skip the leveling process altogether. But for a lot of people leveling up one character (without kicking themselves in the crotch all the time to slow themselves down) IS THE GAME. Sure you can finish your arcs and do end game content, or "play again" with a new character, but the process of playing one character through the levels is a big part of the game and if it can done too fast the game may seem a lot more pointless for a good deal of players. Especially new ones that didnt see enough to like the game on the way.
Is that the case right now? That was the question.
Purple recipes only drop at level 50, so you need to be 47 and up to receive or use them.
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However, you're right, you can't use them until level 47, and the same applies to Hamidon enhancements.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
You know, maybe my small reference pool is terribly biassed, but I just can't see these brand new level 1 newbies hankering at the gates to rush to 50. What I HAVE seen in the new players I've played with has been... Well, a desire to play the game and have fun. I don't know if that's true or not, but based on my experience, what new people want the most is to kill stuff. Questions, as I've seen them, go as follows:
*How can I be awesome?
*How can I die less?
*How can I kill more?
*OK, where can I buy this game?
I've seen this response from several new players, the latest of which kept being amazed at me getting a couple of levels a day and taking a week to get to around level 20, so I don't think he came into the game expecting, or indeed able, to make 50 in no time flat. From my experience, new people don't so much want to level up, get leet loot or go raiding as much as they just... Want to kill stuff. And, you know, they have a point. Some of the best fun in this game can be had if you just let go, flip out and kill stuff
Obviously, I could very well be mistaken on all counts, but that's what I've seen.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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You know, maybe my small reference pool is terribly biassed, but I just can't see these brand new level 1 newbies hankering at the gates to rush to 50. What I HAVE seen in the new players I've played with has been... Well, a desire to play the game and have fun. I don't know if that's true or not, but based on my experience, what new people want the most is to kill stuff. Questions, as I've seen them, go as follows:
*How can I be awesome? *How can I die less? *How can I kill more? *OK, where can I buy this game? I've seen this response from several new players, the latest of which kept being amazed at me getting a couple of levels a day and taking a week to get to around level 20, so I don't think he came into the game expecting, or indeed able, to make 50 in no time flat. From my experience, new people don't so much want to level up, get leet loot or go raiding as much as they just... Want to kill stuff. And, you know, they have a point. Some of the best fun in this game can be had if you just let go, flip out and kill stuff Obviously, I could very well be mistaken on all counts, but that's what I've seen. |
While I understand the concern of OP - perceptions are very important, and if new players have the perception that PL'ing is how the game is played, then we have a problem - I honestly haven't seen these new players myself.
I thought we were done with these types of discussions when we mostly stopped talking about AE Babies. Where are these new people who are being deceived by the dirty rotten PL'ers?
Every time this comes up, it just seems like another tempest in a teapot, to be worried over again and again. And it's been coming up periodically over the past nearly 5 years.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Right now though, I don't think there's a problem.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Is it just me or does the game feel a lot more pointless with the current leveling speed
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*Cue buzzsaw sound*
*DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!** DING!**DING!**DING!*
*DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!** DING!**DING!**DING!*
*DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!** DING!**DING!**DING!*
*DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!** DING!**DING!**DING!*
*DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!**DING!** DING!**DING!*
WOO! 50! Sorry...Now what were you saying?
*Edit*
Okay seriously.
I'm a 15+ month veteran with approximately 2000 hours in the game. I have roughly 8 50's at this point.
HOWEVER, I play frequently (just about every day), and I usually play for extended periods (I get home at night around 6-7 PM and usually play 3-4 hours).
Also, I tend to go on benders (6+ hours) on occasion when there's a goal I want to acheive. Last night I was on until 1 AM to milk the last of the ToT to get the last costume badge on one of my lowbies.
My primary (namesake) was levelled to 50 in approximately 3 months this way, as I played him to the exclusion of all else. On street sweeping mostly (didn't have a really good grasp of the missions framework yet).
Also, I have a couple of speedily (4-5 weeks) leveled characters on another server. They were intended as "project" characters and "gateway" characters, built specifically for their build and enhancement loadouts, and to give me access to high-level events (ship-raids, hami raids, etc) when they came around.
On top of all this, I have approximately 20 non-50 characters that I'm alternating between when I wasn't concentrating on those others. And some of them have their difficulties turned up quite high. So leveling is happening more rapidly.
Have I played through all the content in the game? Hell no!
This gives me an incentive to play still more characters.
Right now? I don't think so. During the AE craze? Yes, I think that was a situation taken to such an extreme that it wasn't healthy. Note that I say this with zero acrimony towards PLing players or culture - I just think the AE was probably too far over the top and too accessible to too many players. As much as people like to have fun, think leveling is fun, and we should let people do what's fun, I do believe they can shoot themselves in the foot long-term with that short-term fun.
Right now though, I don't think there's a problem. |
But that was then. This is now. We have a difficulty system now which allows people to farm their ***** off without fishing for fillers, as well as a castration (let's face it) of the Architect, which essentially did little to dissuade powerlevelling, but it moved it OUT of the public eye. Right now, powerlevelling still exists for those who know where to look for it, but outside of sewer teams, there is no incentive for veterans to draft newbies into it. I'm not sure if I'd call this a win/win, but it's definitely a win.
Practically speaking, loose lips sink ships. Powerlevelling and farming became a problem (both a literal problem and a bone of contention) only when it became epidemic to the point where everyone was doing it and everyone was talking about it. Does it exist after the changes? Oh, hell yes. Do I have any evidence that it exists? Oh HELL no! I don't know if people powerlevel or not, because I have no way to see it. I'm sure they do, but other people don't know about it. And as long as that holds true, I hold no fear for new players being sucked into a fast-track experience.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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two and a half days for it? Clearly not. That would be too slow indeed. I always make 12 in one afternoon even if I stick with normal content and try to take along all the contacts and badges. And I am sure with sewers and TF it can be done MUCH faster.
Call me crazy, and I know there are exceptions to this, but I don't expect a new player's first instincts to be "Must. Level. Fast. How do I do that?" Yeah, sewer teams might hook them up to 10 (hero-side only), but then as you said, getting to level 10 isn't that big an achievement. Sewer teams won't get them to 50, and there is no such stable conveyor belt past level 10 that I'm aware of. And if there are people constantly soliciting low-level characters for quick-level TF, I've never seen it. I've gotten only a handful of random invites for TFs (literally less than five) and the TFs I HAVE been on have been organised either by friends or via global channels, which a new player may not necessarily have. And even then, they've been mostly the ITF, or the Shard TFs.
You can level fast if you put your mind to it. If you don't, it takes a while. As I said, I've done more than just level since Monday. I've had a guest come over twice and we played a bit of Torchlight, I have a job that prevents me from playing all day even if I cut my workday short specifically to play longer, and I post on the forums, too. I mean, that post count takes some consistency to achieve, after all. And even so, anyone who knows me keeps remarking on how fast I level compared to THEM.