Problem Team Members

So, I was following up on a thread I recently posted about my nerd rage relating to Caltrop usage ( http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=196455 ) and realized that it raises a larger issue for me that I feel deserves its own space: problem players.

This is of specific concern for me, as an oft-tanker, because even if I'm not the team leader, situational awareness and control are my responsibility in a team. Tankers don't do much damage (try as we might), so my focus is on creating a focal point for NPC aggro and enabling the damage-dealers to do their job as effectively and death-free as possible.

Obviously, when the following issues come up and I'm the team leader, I go by a three-strikes-and-you're-out policy. If you didn't catch the first two warnings, you're not watching team chat closely enough (that's how I feel about it, anyway).

These are the problems I most often have with team members. How do you deal with them if you're tanking, but not the team leader?

- Caltroppers who use their powers for evil. Mobs scatter, and at the very least make fights take longer because the spread causes AOE efficiency to drop. Usually it becomes harder to maintain aggro, if I don't lose it altogether because of critters slow-mo running in opposite directions. The kicker to all of this is the negligible damage inflicted by caltrops.

- Fire/kin trollers who want to tank. They have nothing keeping critters specifically angry at them, so the moment someone else does more damage (say, for instance, a blaster, whos job it is to do more damage than controllers, if I'm understanding the game correctly), they catch aggro and get hosed. Usually when this happens, I'm still trying to mop up the last boss or two of a mob, and half the team has followed the adventurous fire/kin down another hallway (usually to their deaths).

- SuperScout Scrappers (tm). "I can do all of the damage of a scrapper and I have soft-capped defense. Lol! I'm a scranker!" Enough said, I think.

- Other tankers with big egos. I actually believe that two or three tankers is better than one, and will happily take on the role of second-in tanker if that's what's needed. What I have problems with on a fairly regular basis are tankers who seem to feel that if they're not taking point and setting the pace of the team, they've somehow been emasculated or scorned. If there's a way to say "I go first, not you" without sounding like you're butt-hurt and petty, I haven't found it yet.


In all of these cases, which have come up several times for me, a simple "please don't" didn't suffice. In one Fire/kin instance, I left a task force mid-run because the player wouldn't stop, and didn't respond to any of my /team comments or requests. I got rage-tastic tells from multiple people in the TF telling me that it was bad sportsmanship to bail on a TF because of my ego, and that they wouldn't be able to finish because they needed me to tank Romulus.

Apparently I was just there to tank the AV. Wish they had told me that straight away. XD Anyway.

I'm really just looking for general feedback on these situations, and how to deal with them when you don't have access to the Kick button. I love this game, and the kind of team infighting that occurs because of this stuff is really the only thing that causes me to enjoy it less.

Sorry for the long-winded post!

Almost never quit a TF, make notes so you never play with the player again, but don't bail. I think I've quit 2 of the 4 figure number of TFs I've done.

One I warned the team that I might have to quit beforehand as one particular effect (hurricane) makes me ill, and there was a stormie on the team who was very good at using it. They said to come along and try, and no hard feelings when I had to quit.

The other, some muppet decided to run posi on invincible with a pretty random team, I was the lvl 12 tank and after a level 17 or 18 minion killed me one on one, realised that life was too short to complete this.

My response to the problem with the fire/kin is to beat them to the groups even if that means leaving the previous group before it's finished. The problem I find is that they tend to use fire cages and immob groups out of range of my taunt aura. The counter to this is to get to the group first and cluster them on you before the fire/kin arrives.

As to multiple tanks, I prefer to agree to tank alternate groups, and this can be very efficient as every group is tightly clustered for the damage dealers.

Sometimes you end up with a Fire/Kin that feels they have to be with you all of the time and masking taped to your butt sharing all the AoEs and cones that land upon you.

A team could easily exist where everyone is practically needlessly doing everything and anything to get themselves and eachother killed. Epic fail teams can exist. With some people you can get the impossible done and with some the totally possible can become virtually impossible. Any TF could be done by any balanced team mix. So why aren't they getting done? Maybe it's that bubbler that constantly for several minutes at a time forgets to bubble and hates people reminding them.

Some people deserve the level of support that they provide sometimes but it may not be the way you wish to play. If your unhappy playing log out. The game should be about fun however on TFs it's a last minute resort.

I kind of have to comment on the Superscout scrappers, because I am one. I do sometimes jump ahead of a slow tank. Not saying you are slow, but whatever the case is, if the scrapper runs off and gets melted, who cares? As long as they don't aggro a bunch of crap that wipes the team. Some people play the way they play and that's it.

I have a certain group of people I do tf's with and that's it. Maybe something of that sort would benefit you. Find a group you like and do whatever makes ya happy.

I once was on a team with a stormie that had hurricane on, and me on follow.

Then he complained that I kept getting the team killed, and that I needed to learn to Tank better. I really wanted to reach through the computer and punch him. Luckily, the team leader saw what he was doing, and eventually kicked him.

Sometimes, people are just dumb.

Superscout Scrappers brings up something entirely different to me. I once was tanking for a team in the Hollows and we had two scrappers. One of the scrappers had Invisibility, or Stealth, or somesuch, and would run through the mission to find the boss/glowie/objective and tell us all where it was, and then he/she would wait for the team to get there.

This guy didn't go all lonewolf scrapper, he didn't even fight when we finally got there, he just sat there invisible. His response: "I'm a scout."

Needless to say, I ditched that team since they seemed to appreciate his help.

Doctor Xaxan, here's my take on the situations you describe:

1) I've never encountered someone horribly misusing caltrops. Oddly enough, I can't even recall ever tanking on a team with someone that had the power. So on this I can't comment.

2) My usual solution is to in fact hang back just long enough for the fire/kin to actually eat the alpha. One of two things will happen: they will faceplant and I'll pick the spawn back up, or they won't and I'll just pick the spawn up anyway. Of course if they absolutely refuse to learn, I'll one star them and never team with them again. Problem solved.

3) Superscout Scrappers: I let them die or not, as their own ability dictates. I will grab the aggro after they're gone, same as with the fire/kin. If they don't die, the team is just moving a little faster.

4) Big Ego tanks: If the other tank really really really super duper really wants to take point, I let 'em. But I keep an eye out for any issues and take up the slack if I have to. If they annoy me enough, they get the 1 star treatment as well.

I have to agree with the others that I probably wouldn't bail on a TF. I've been on some absolutely horrific ones that, amazingly enough, got all better once one or two "key" people left. On a regular mission team though, I will definitely find something else to go do pretty quickly.

Is this, curb your enthusiasm?

Let me take a stab at your list.

1 kick them
2 let them
3 kick them
4 let them

-> TT MA Arc ID 1755 -> Join TankHQ -> Media -> @AceMACE

This sort of problem is everywhere, because people tend to overestimate the effectiveness/necessity of their powers.

I once tanked for a team with an FF/Rad defender. We were doing a Freakshow mission when I made a miscalculation and aggroed two large spawns - enough to put me over the aggro cap. The 'fender had the bright idea of turning on Force Bubble to repel the enemies. This would have been a great save except that 1) the entire team except for him was scrappers and tanks, 2) rather than pushing the enemies into a corner, he just drove them in a line down the hallway, 3) he would then run up (I think he was trying to use short-ranged Cosmic Burst), which ended up pushing the mob further down the map and into the next spawn, aggroing even more enemies and causing a near-teamwipe.

He was so earnest and obviously thought he was doing a good job, excitedly pointing out that he was keeping the scary Freakshow away from us, but when he disconnected the team agreed that we were better off without him.

It's also human nature to be unhappy if you sink time and influence into playing a particular "role" well, and then you get on a team where it's unnecessary. So you sometimes see people insisting on trying to tank even in situations where they can't do it well, even when there is another player who could do it better, because they've invested in their team tanking build and want to use it (I have no idea why the tanking "role" seems to draw this mentality the most, versus damage/support).