City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Going Rogue clarifications

5th_Player

By 5th_Player,
Posted on: 2009-10-26 14:15 in Developers' Corner

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
And what is the justification that you cant move VEATs or the epic phail HEATs to the other sides? I could careless about the failure of a storyline that is the SoA/Kheld storyline.
*sigh* For the 27 millionth time, you WILL be able to move HEATs and VEATs to the opposite sides. Just not from day 1. Which, frankly, makes perfect sense. What on earth would a Soldier of Arachnos be doing in Praetoria at the beginning of their career? And as for Khelds, do they even exist natively in Praetoria? I'd say not. What? Logic? How shocking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
Knowing how the devs do things, they will dumb this thing down to the point where an empathy defender with no other powers in the secondary can solo the arc with just brawl. Just wait and see its going to be uber easy to side switch. Which to me cheapens the whole experience and another reason why they need to just allow you to pick from any of the ATs starting out on any side you want.
I have no idea where you're getting this. The devs made it very clear at HeroCon that side-switching would definitely NOT be a simple switch. That it would involve many choices made over time. I don't understand how you can listen to what their words are, and come to the conclusion that they mean the exact opposite.

 

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Originally Posted by treboreleets View Post
I really hope they don't force teaming on a "grey" character. I prefer to play solo (though I'll team occasionally) and I for one hope that "grey" characters can get their own contacts on the other side.

Right now, there are contacts that work with both heroes and villains (DJ Zero, RWZ contacts, Mercedes Sheldon, and some of the Cimerora contacts) so I don't see why some hero or villain contacts wouldn't be willing to work with redeeming villains or falling heroes.
Indigo and Crimson immediately come to mind as blueside contacts that might be more willing to "take a chance". And I'd be willing to understand if the Longbow and PPD in Atlas Park were not quite so understanding.

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Posted

Personally I feel if I'm gonna have to constantly do missions or whatever it is it takes for a hero to become a villain and a villain to become a hero, I'm gonna get pretty pissed off.

@Psycho Jas

 

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Originally Posted by SoulTouch View Post
Personally I feel if I'm gonna have to constantly do missions or whatever it is it takes for a hero to become a villain and a villain to become a hero, I'm gonna get pretty pissed off.
I'm curious, why is this? You don't think it should be a "path" to take? I mean, this is a MMORPG...why would it be bad design to base side-switching in a roleplaying framework?

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
So there is no option to remain Neutral? You MUST, at some point, choose to be a Hero or Villain and then shift back to Neutral if that's what you want?
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreckledAvenger View Post
*sigh* For the 27 millionth time, you WILL be able to move HEATs and VEATs to the opposite sides. Just not from day 1. Which, frankly, makes perfect sense. What on earth would a Soldier of Arachnos be doing in Praetoria at the beginning of their career? And as for Khelds, do they even exist natively in Praetoria? I'd say not. What? Logic? How shocking!



I have no idea where you're getting this. The devs made it very clear at HeroCon that side-switching would definitely NOT be a simple switch. That it would involve many choices made over time. I don't understand how you can listen to what their words are, and come to the conclusion that they mean the exact opposite.
For SoA it makes perfect sense, they get sent on a portal mission on their first day on the job and end up there by accident. As for as HEATs dont really know how to explain it, dont care to because I dont play them much. As for as the devs not making it simple part they will. Thats because they have dumbed down just about everything else in the game except for 3 challenges, thats STF, LSF, and Hami. So looking at past history, I can see them doing this easily.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreckledAvenger View Post
I'm curious, why is this? You don't think it should be a "path" to take? I mean, this is a MMORPG...why would it be bad design to base side-switching in a roleplaying framework?
Everything gets boring after a certain point, for those with say 20.. 10.. even 5 50's doing the same task to switch from side to side, and as you all seem to think its not gonna be a fast side switch, things WILL get boring. MMO or not, I think they should plan it out long and hard how the side switching system will work, rather then rush into things.

@Psycho Jas

 

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Originally Posted by Chyll View Post
The market has never entered into my decision making to play any AT.
It makes a difference to me, and is a prime reason my hero characters outnumber my villains by about 5 to 1.

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Healthier? My most accomplished marketer may be a villain, but I have no problems making inf in exactly the same way doing the same things either side.
Less to do with the amount of inf that can be made, as the availability of items to buy. Does no good to have a billion infamy, if the item you want is not available.

 

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Ehhh? If both markets exist on Praetoria what's stop a Praetorian from buying something from the villside market at say lvl 5 and then selling it on the heroside market, and then vice versa. I can't see them blocking you from accessing the markets till you are lvl 20.
The thing is its going to create an even bigger mess than had they just merged them. Just give it time, people will ***** and moan as they always do and it gets changed. Look at past history, costume drops, merits, and tickets. Why wait and have to deal with an even bigger fall out when they can just do it at the start of GR.

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Originally Posted by brophog02 View Post
That's your opinion, of course.

Then there are other opinions, such as the many you will read that say simply this:

"I'm taking all of my toons to blueside and never looking back".

It is a very valid, very serious concern. Despite everything you've said, redside is already only a small fraction of the population of blueside.
And there will be some like me, who go from blue to red. Or go from red to blue, IO out and then go back to red.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
The thing is its going to create an even bigger mess than had they just merged them. Just give it time, people will ***** and moan as they always do and it gets changed. Look at past history, costume drops, merits, and tickets. Why wait and have to deal with an even bigger fall out when they can just do it at the start of GR.
I don't know. I would just merge and cut the ******** already, as just stating what I just did (and what others have) is going to make this an overly complicated mess.

Also Ryu, you are dead wrong if you think it's going to be easy. Despite all the changing info and updated info the one thing that's been consistent since the very IDEA of side switching was mentioned, was that the devs would never make it easy.

A team doing a tf in 30 minutes is NOT typical. Sorry.

Forum goers represent a fraction of the pop in game. And from what I've seen a majority of the pop in game does NOT speed tfs all the time.

If a majority did, most of our tfs would already be only giving 5 merits max as rewards, as the devs have proven they very much are willing to CUT rewards on content.

You're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
It makes a difference to me, and is a prime reason my hero characters outnumber my villains by about 5 to 1.



Less to do with the amount of inf that can be made, as the availability of items to buy. Does no good to have a billion infamy, if the item you want is not available.
And, THIS!

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
For SoA it makes perfect sense, they get sent on a portal mission on their first day on the job and end up there by accident. As for as HEATs dont really know how to explain it, dont care to because I dont play them much. As for as the devs not making it simple part they will. Thats because they have dumbed down just about everything else in the game except for 3 challenges, thats STF, LSF, and Hami. So looking at past history, I can see them doing this easily.
*shrug* I guess we differ on what a "challenge" is then. Also, difficult and time-consuming are two different things. It might not be hard in the STF or Hami sense to switch sides, but still be time consuming. It's supposed to be a gradual change.

 

Posted

hmm, explaining SoA in Praetoria by a teleporter accident, its almost as plausable as Gordon Freeman, at the beginning of Half Life getting the dimension full of Playboy girls instead of the Xen dimension, sorry no doesn't work.

SoA are ARACHNOS SOLDIERS, hence if they left those and Kheldians alone, I would be perfectly happy as it makes sense.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreckledAvenger View Post
*shrug* I guess we differ on what a "challenge" is then. Also, difficult and time-consuming are two different things. It might not be hard in the STF or Hami sense to switch sides, but still be time consuming. It's supposed to be a gradual change.
And I'm of the opinion that Ryu is dead wrong on this one.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero View Post
hmm, explaining SoA in Praetoria by a teleporter accident, its almost as plausable as Gordon Freeman, at the beginning of Half Life getting the dimension full of Playboy girls instead of the Xen dimension, sorry no doesn't work.

SoA are ARACHNOS SOLDIERS, hence if they left those and Kheldians alone, I would be perfectly happy as it makes sense.
And seeing as how they've already said they can switch . . .

I think Ryu's main issue is not being able to make a hero or villain in the opposite faction from lvl 1.

I don't care what freaking roleplay handwaving you are willing to do, I vehmently disagree with that idea. That would take the narrative of COH and throw it out the window.

The way the devs are doing it is perfectly logical and fine.

EDIT: Except for the part about the markets, as THAT part doesn't make any sense. It's making things more complicated. In addition the whole not being able to trade items except insp doesn't make any sense if they are putting both markets in Praetoria. Just merge the damn thing and not have to deal with the split. THAT part I agree with Ruy and others on.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
And I'm of the opinion that Ryu is dead wrong on this one.
Oh, me too! I'm just allowing for the possibility that there are different levels of "difficulty" that could be meant in the switching-sides sense.

Plus, mass-teleporter accident? Really? Yeah, the existing SoA storyline isn't fabulous, but it's cohesive genius compared to something like that.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreckledAvenger View Post
Oh, me too! I'm just allowing for the possibility that there are different levels of "difficulty" that could be meant in the switching-sides sense.

Plus, mass-teleporter accident? Really? Yeah, the existing SoA storyline isn't fabulous, but it's cohesive genius compared to something like that.
Not to mention Lord Recluse would have to be a flippin moron to allow lowbie soldiers as scouts in Preatoria. If he's looking for folks to BRING BACK info/spy material. Who's more likely to bring back info in one piece, and come back uninjured ready for the next espionage assignement?

A lowbie SoA with no skills?
Or a well trained Fortunata, Nightwidow, Bane, Crab Soldier?

C'mon, we all riff on the patrons of the Rogue Isles as being dumb. But THAT dumb?

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Posted

My question is as follows:

We all know that Preatorians will choose to join the Loyalists or Resistance, and must choose to leave Preatoria for their first visit to Prime Earth some time before level 20. And side switching is supposedly only to be available after level "X", where "X" is a number which has not been revealed. But which it is logical and consistent to guess is the same as the Preatorian number, 20.

Heroes are able to travel freely between Paragon City and Preatoria, however, just as Villains have access to the Rogue Isles and Preatoria. And there will be a new player base of lowbies in Preatoria, levelling to 20. While it is certainly easy and quick to level to 20, I assume that it is not the intention of the devs that they level through this content SOLO. And if they are limited to only being able to team with those who, like them, are beginning a new character in the Preatorian zones, then this will limit the possibilities for teaming. High level Vigilantes and Rogues doing the side switching missions could certainly exemplar down to help the newbies, which would add to the pool as well, but most of them will probably be busy with their own side switching missions.

So my question is, given that it will likely be level 20 before a Hero can go over to the Rogue Isles and participate in Villain teams, what is the earliest level that a Hero can go over to the Preatorian zones? Level 1? Level 10? Level 20?

This would likely be connected to the lowest level at which a Preatorian can leave his start areas and enter Prime Earth for the first time. Which is certainly not going to preclude him going back to Praetoria and helping other newbies level, even as he joins in Hero or Villain teams in whatever side he has chosen there.

It's my theory that simply doing missions in the Preatorian zones will progress you along the path of side switching, so there might be an incentive to help Preatorians do their missions that way. Conversely, doing Hero or Villain missions take you out towards the "ends" of the alignments. There won't be any simple arc or Task Force you can take, although I'm sure you'll be able to grind it like folks do Newspaper missions.

 

Posted

<QR>

Please for the love of all that is holy DO NOT PUT THE PORTAL TO PRAETORIA IN ATLAS PARK!!!

That is all.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
My question is as follows:

We all know that Preatorians will choose to join the Loyalists or Resistance, and must choose to leave Preatoria for their first visit to Prime Earth some time before level 20. And side switching is supposedly only to be available after level "X", where "X" is a number which has not been revealed. But which it is logical and consistent to guess is the same as the Preatorian number, 20.

Heroes are able to travel freely between Paragon City and Preatoria, however, just as Villains have access to the Rogue Isles and Preatoria. And there will be a new player base of lowbies in Preatoria, levelling to 20. While it is certainly easy and quick to level to 20, I assume that it is not the intention of the devs that they level through this content SOLO. And if they are limited to only being able to team with those who, like them, are beginning a new character in the Preatorian zones, then this will limit the possibilities for teaming. High level Vigilantes and Rogues doing the side switching missions could certainly exemplar down to help the newbies, which would add to the pool as well, but most of them will probably be busy with their own side switching missions.

So my question is, given that it will likely be level 20 before a Hero can go over to the Rogue Isles and participate in Villain teams, what is the earliest level that a Hero can go over to the Preatorian zones? Level 1? Level 10? Level 20?

This would likely be connected to the lowest level at which a Preatorian can leave his start areas and enter Prime Earth for the first time. Which is certainly not going to preclude him going back to Praetoria and helping other newbies level, even as he joins in Hero or Villain teams in whatever side he has chosen there.

It's my theory that simply doing missions in the Preatorian zones will progress you along the path of side switching, so there might be an incentive to help Preatorians do their missions that way. Conversely, doing Hero or Villain missions take you out towards the "ends" of the alignments. There won't be any simple arc or Task Force you can take, although I'm sure you'll be able to grind it like folks do Newspaper missions.
We don't know yet at which level heroes and villains can go to Praetoria.

Praetorian characters can solo the level 1-20 content like any Heroes or Villains can solo their own contents. They can team-up with other new Praetorians too. They can be powerleveled by level 50s there too I would guess.

Doing missions in Praetoria does not automatically set you to a path of side switching. A hero can go to Praetoria and make only the good choices and remain a Hero.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoefulKnight View Post
<QR>

Please for the love of all that is holy DO NOT PUT THE PORTAL TO PRAETORIA IN ATLAS PARK!!!

That is all.
Actually, that's kind of my point. It makes a lot more sense for there to be a portal from Atlas Park to the start area of Preatoria than for there to be a portal from Atlas Park to a zone that starts out at level 35 and has level 50 raid content.

It might still be that the three start areas are seperate, though, and only after 20 are the groups able to mix.

 

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Originally Posted by Photonstorm View Post
Doing missions in Praetoria does not automatically set you to a path of side switching. A hero can go to Praetoria and make only the good choices and remain a Hero.
And, presumably, join in applicable missions with a Villain, even though he can't enter the Rogue Isles. In that sense it would be much the same as the RWZ.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Not to mention Lord Recluse would have to be a flippin moron to allow lowbie soldiers as scouts in Preatoria. If he's looking for folks to BRING BACK info/spy material. Who's more likely to bring back info in one piece, and come back uninjured ready for the next espionage assignement?

A lowbie SoA with no skills?
Or a well trained Fortunata, Nightwidow, Bane, Crab Soldier?

C'mon, we all riff on the patrons of the Rogue Isles as being dumb. But THAT dumb?
Considering all the hair brained stuff dr. aeon has done, who is to say an accident couldnt happen. Come on guys thats just one way of explaining it. I am pretty sure someone else with more imagination could explain it better. Lets say you are a disgruntal SoA who is ticked off at how things are going and you want to get back at arachnos in your own way so you decide to go rogue. You decide to sabotage one of the portals they use and you accidently get sent to Praetoria. I would sooner say my explaination in this post is alot more believable than the SoA storyline where a person goes thru all that crap just to get on the destined one list. Think about it if SoA spiders are linked in a hive mind they would know what you are doing unless you terminate link. They would not continue to let you work for them knowing you werent under their control therefore the destine one storyline couldnt have happened, where as my explaination of going rogue could.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero View Post
SoA are ARACHNOS SOLDIERS, hence if they left those and Kheldians alone, I would be perfectly happy as it makes sense.
This is dumb.

SoAs are rogue Arachnos soldiers. They buck the trend, do their own thing, and kick their boss' butt around if they do the right story arcs.

There's no reason one couldn't decide to throw that out the window and go hero.

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