Empthy- does not suck

I was on with a friend last night playing my Emp/AR Defender and while she was creating a new costume earned using the salvage from Trikc or Treating I found myself following a conversation in one of the Badge Hound Global channels I belong to here. The conversation revolved around how useless Empaths are and how they are not needed or wanted on teams these days. I decided to hold my tongue and just stay out of the small argument but the general feeling was that "ALL" Empaths do is spam heals and provide nothing of benefit to a team these days. Okay I admit there are "bad" Empaths out there running around with their Healing Aura on auto and thinking that's all they need to do to assist the team. That said and out of the way... Empathy, when used properly, is one of the best buffing sets out there. Clear Mind protects teammates from Holds, Immobs, Sleeps and between the Lost, The Rikti, Carnival, Circle of Thorn and even Arachnos Night Widows come in very handy all the way to level 50. Fortitude increases any players defense and ability to hit even a Arch Villain. The Regen and Recovery Auras allow every player on the team, including the Empath, to heal faster and regain edurance at an accelerated rate. Add a good secondary that debuffs like Rad and a Emp/? can be a very effective teammate.

I started playing Scrappers and moved to Defenders shortly afterwards and this attitude disturbs me a bit. Sure even I had seen Emp Defenders that were totally useless. I have also seen Tanks that didn't bother to take Taunt.. the excuse was it was a "concept" character and taunt didn't fit with the So-called Tanks vision for his character. A Tabk with no taunt while battling Malta didn't fit with the team leaders vision of survival either and he kicked the guy shortly after that statement came out of the Tank's mouth. I have played with Kins that.. 1) Didn't take SB because "It doesn't help my character so I skipped it" and 2) Have SB and seem to be under the impression that if a little speed burst is good 5 or 6 application had just got to be better! Nothing I enjoy more than barely nudging one of my Blasters to try and get into range and finding myself in the middle of a huge mob playing tank (for all of about 6 seconds until I dropped like a dead leaf). I have played with Illusion controller that didn't take Superior Invisibilty or had it but didn't bother taking Recall Friend... Nothing speeds up a Task Force like a good Ill/? that can stealth to the objective and transport the team past the tons of minions. lieutenants, and Bosses in the way. I cant still recall the Illusion Controller that stealthed to the objective, reported I found the boss, and then when the TF leader said "Okay TP us" the reply was "I don't have TP"! .... Okay then WHY did you bother? I could go on and on I play on Pick up groups a lot and have seen good and bad players using every ArchType there is but I think you see my point... HOPE you do anyway.

There is nothing wrong with Empathy the problem is a bunch of bad players using it. I play with, In My Opinion, on of the best herding Tankers in the game.... you don't see too many of those these days either becuase far too many players don't want to take the time to learn to actually PLAY thier character. I have Empath Defenders and Controllers and I gaurentee you I hit every member of a team with CM as we enter a mission, I use Fort on the Tanks and Scrappers... and YES I have it double slotted with Recharge reduction so I can Fortify more than one or two players over the course of a mission. My Regen and Recovery Auras fire off as fast as they are available and OMG I do actually heal and Rez when its necessary! In between I fire off every attack I have and yeah I know Defender damage sucks but any damage is good damage if it helps keep the team alive and the mission going smoothly.

Empathy- Does Not Suck! Players that think its a race to get to 50 as fast as possible and have no idea how their powers work does suck. Don't believe me? Okay come to Virtue and look up Taxibot Sara my 50 level Ill/Emp Troller (you know the one with TF Commander along with about 400 other badges... I don't have every single Crafting and Time Travel Badge known to man. Team with me for a while and then tell me EMPATHY Sucks. I solo Malta and Carnival not to mention COT and Rikti and I have finished missions without losing a single Hit Point of health. I have done most of the Task Forces and Trials, including the respecs, and have a dual build (one for solo and one for teaming). The majority of my enhancements are basic IOs that I got , at not cost, by actually running missions and getting the recipes and most of the salvage.. Not a single PURPLE in my entire build and I have gotten compliments from team leaders on my play. Am I perfect? Heck no just ask my friends I screw up just like anyone else but overall they rather have ANY of my characters on their teams to picking up someone desperately running around Screaming LFT!!!! I will stand side by side with a Tank healing and buffing until the team either wins the fight or I drop and that usuallly means the Tank stayed healthy long enough to defeat the AV and I just use an awake and way we go again. DON'T CONDEMN THE POWER SET OR THE AT.. CONDEMN THE GOOF UP THAT DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO USE IT. Empathy is not a BAD Powerset.... like so many others it just looks bad in the wrong hands.

you should have sent this in a lengthy tell to the person, not in the forum where peeps play Empath's - we already know they do not suck....

The problem is never empathy in those conversations. In fact, it has nothing to do with the powers of empathy whatsoever.

It's the secondary that people are really talking about in that conversation, and to a lesser extent the power pools.

For the purpose of those discussions, and I saw at least bits and pieces of what you are referring to, ignore the fact empathy is mentioned. It could be any powerset, really.

Empathy simply draws a certain player and a certain mindset from players to do things in an extreme manner and therefore we erroneously tend to call that type of player an empath (much in the same way that player and his compatriots will erroneously call themselves 'healers'). They weren't saying that empathy sucks in that conversation, or even that the players that are playing empathy are sucking but that players taking those sets tend to build characters and play characters in such a manner that they become less useful.

Not everyone, of course, but enough that those conversations become common both in game and on the forum.

I totally agree.

My Empathy duo are the most powerful characters I've ever played.

You can see where these people were coming from - as you say, Empathy attracts its fair share of bad players. Its just a shame they chose to extrapolate this to all Empaths. People spout all sorts of opinions about the game like they were facts, its usually just best to ignore it when they do.

I don't know how else to say it - an empath is an empath and more.

What that 'more' is depends on who he/she is; his/her secondary, pool and epic powers; and how it all combines together. That, and how he/she is played.

Check out some of the empaths in this forum and we'll see a few who have gone solo in their quest to vindicate both themselves and this class (Biospark, for one, comes to mind). I play an empath with electricity as her secondary who is geared to play solo, duo, trio and team play - a highly challenging and thought-provoking feat, given the many choices amongst the multitude of build and IO set options. Empathy as a primary power is indeed an effective one, both in damage control (as a 'healer') as well as proactive team/partner buffing measures combined with secondary/epic power offensive capabilities, yet empathy is just one part of several of who an empath is and what they can do.

Nor is an empath (or for that matter, any AT) indispensable. Many a team has succeeded on the most difficult missions without an empath or a 'healer' in their midst.

As with any AT, empaths alike, the effectiveness of any character lies in the hands of the person playing them.

I don't have an empath myself, but I have teamed with good ones and bad ones over the years.

When I first started a friend of mine played an empath with only 3 powers from his secondary (Dark Blast, Tenebrous Tentacles, and Life Drain). Of those 3 powers only 1 was slotted for damage (Dark Blast), the other 2 were slotted for to-hit debuff and healing respectively.

He was playing an empath of the type I usually despise ("pure" empathy), but he was still one of the best defenders I have ever teamed with.

On the other hand, I have teamed with scads of horrible empaths. You know the type, the ones who are jammed up the tank's butt and ignore the other players on the team. The ones that spam Heal Other on the tank while the blaster's HP is in the red (and the tank is barely scratched). Or they spam Fortitude on the Stone tank in Granite Armor....WHY? Fortitude is next to useless to a tank in Granite, give it to the blaster or controller instead, where it will do some good.

The major downside to Empathy is: the people who complain about it have no idea how to tell a good one from a bad one.

Everyone that has responded is right on the money.

And you are right, Empathy does not suck.

What I believe the problem you have witnessed is that people coming into this game from other games (Like me) who have played the "pure" Healer role ( I played Warden (EQ2, Priest in WoW, Paladin in Vanguard, Druid in EQ1 etc, etc, etc) is that they roll up an empath and proceed to play it just like they would from their past experiences.

Unlike these "Healers", I realized day ONE that I was not playing the same game, and that I WANTED to be a SUPER HERO not a SIDEKICK. In my head was this thought back at launch; "You mean I can play a group support class AND BLOW STUFF UP ! YEAH !"

Sadly, they "Blow stuff up" part was a little more difficult than I expected, but the fact remains to this day that Defenders and Empaths in particular are not just a Primary "Buff" set to be used, abused, demanded and expected by their teammates, but the sum total of all their powers. You have 24 power picks and I use every one of mine, even on a team.

[tongue firmly in place] - Empthy - does not suck .... it's the kinetics that suck [/tongue firmly in place].... the endurance, the health, the damage potential, the speed and recharge... right out of those nasty enemies.

Usually the best sign that your empath teammate at least gets part of it is if you can spot *TWO* teammates with fortitude glowies on their heads.

My favorite secondary powers to see on empaths are: howl, irradiate, tenebrous tentacles, rain of arrows , ice storm or frost breath. Powers that say, nah, I ain't soloing anything here but I can sure debuff.

*casts Summon_BadStorm*


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Awww..... where'd she go? I miss her.

Maybe if I mention that I just went to the butcher's shop and bought a giant, hot, throbbing.... sausage she'll appear?


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Nothing?

Damn.

Empathy is hilariously powerful. I would elaborate but anonymous passive aggressive rep comments are tedious.

So basically, yes. Emp r good. Not the fault of the set that its the go-to set for vacuous idiots who want to heal leet.

Hilariously powerful or hilariously boring?

Dun dun duuuun, you be the judge.

Just plain hilarious. Especially whenever I think of BadStorm.... I miss her so...

Yeah, it reminds me of that line by the Supremes:

"I've got this burning, burning yearning living inside me, ooooo deep inside me and it hurts so bad."

Sorry for the threadjack... um go Broncos... um go Empaths, yeah.

Empathy has sort of an odd learning curve, I think. It's not like Storm, which has a learning curve of "ThisSucksThisSucksThisSucksThisSucks...THIS ROCKS!" It's more like a series of plateaus, with a steep slope looming over them.

Basic healing is easy, and Empaths get praised for it early on, which I think leads far too many players to stop there, on the Aura Rocker plateau. On the edges of the plateau, you'll find a few more adventurous types playing Whack-A-Mole with health bars. The problem is, that sucks, and the suckage increases with level. They usually don't notice.

Aura buffs are also pretty easy to use, and they form the next plateau. This is where the Gatherers live. You can hear them calling out to their teams whenever the RAs recharge. This, of course, interrupts whatever the teams are doing, but at least they get some really nice buffs out of it.

Single-target buffs require a lot more work than auras. You have to pick targets, and renew the buffs often. It involves a lot more clicking, which distracts one from the game of Health-Bar Whack-A-Mole. This leads to the plateau where the Tank Polishers live. The Polishers choose a Tank and attach themselves, remora-like. This allows them to simplify their single-target buffing by only buffing the Tank (whether the Tank needs that buff or not), and they get to feed on the bits of xp the Tank drops (Tanks are messy eaters).

On the slopes above all the plateaus, you find the real Empaths. These defenders use their powers dynamically, firing auras on the fly when the natural flow of combat clumps the team for them, covering as many of the team as possible with single-target buffs based on an every-shifting set of efficiency and safety critera, spot-healing when bad luck or mistakes open holes in the team's defenses, and contributing with damage and control. Not all of them are equally skilled in these endeavors, but they have all abandoned the easy life on the plateaus for the sake of their teammates. They do not ask for praise for their "healz", nor do they demand special treatment. To make such a sacrifice, they might say, is simply the way of the Defender. Treat them with the respect due a fellow hero, and maybe they'll make you a god for a little while.

Empathy isn't bad, none of the sets really are, it's just that it attracts stupid players like flies to dung.

hmmmm, well.....
from the beginning, many emps were played because about all players came from a game where you play a priest/healer which the devs setup/pidgeon-holed the class to be a healer-type. Following that though, many "support"-minded players played Emps, following that traditional thought. But low and behold, CoH had proven to be a very dynamic game, including all their ATs. And slowly the "support"-minded players got away from tradition and started to experiment more w/ Defense and using defensive AT's instead, and found out its a better damage management than healing.

The funny thing is there's still a good few "dedicated healers" out there, locked into traditional thinking, and not realizing that their "other" power (Fort) is actually more effective than their healing. These dedicated healers are starting to feel obsolete as players have gotten more self-sufficient by building up their "defense" individually thru IO'ing, and matching w/ "defensive" defenders.

Imo, mitigation through defense may get more prevalent and Emp users will continue to drop - the "traditionalists" will feel unneeded while the true Emps will continue to make the most of their "other" powers, and others will move on to AT's that provide needed debuffs vs Big Game.....