This game is very versatile, and the sets are very variable.
I can make a defender that out blasts a blaster. Simply pick the best defender blast set and pair it against the worst blaster primary.
I can make a tank that out-damages most scrappers. A fully loaded DM/Shield tank will somewhere in the 160 single target dps range. It can solo a pylon with ease. Few scrappers aim for higher dps ratings, but instead start working on defense after they hit similar offensive marks. The tank starts with defense and works his build toward offense, where-as the scrapper starts with offense and works his build toward defense.
I've seen blasters with capped Ranged and AoE defenses taking on AVs with ease, and anything else they can keep at arms length by using hover. That blaster could easily alpha 8 man spawns using, hover and range, and then heal up with aid self.
I like to aim my defense numbers at the 32.5+% range, so I can use a small purple to cap. Then I put the rest of my energy either to offense, or team multiplication. This means I can off-tank in a pinch, and I'm very survivable. Often I have vengeance and aid-self allowing me to over-cap my defense, as well as significantly boost my team-mate's defenses anytime things start to go wrong.
As one exhibit of the variabilty of offense, the following chart represents every set combination's resulting damage chain's dps taking into account multipliers from the non-blast secondary/primary:
http://www.repeat-offenders.net/foru...3_74_13457.png
Defenders have to work harder for it, but it's entirely possible for their damage to overlap the lower 1/3 to 1/2 of the blaster damage range. The defender will have to work very hard on his build to do so, while the blaster gets all that damage at a much lower cost. To put it similarly to the tank vs scrapper, Defenders start with defense and have to work toward damage, where-as blasters start with damage and have to work towards defense. There is, however, an area of overlap between defenders and blasters as well as between tankers and scrappers.
The real question is, "How will you customize your build to meet your particular objectives, especially if those objectives lay in the range of overlap between defenders, corruptors, blasters, and EATs."
PS: I know someone that was working on a multi-billion Solo LRSF build. As far as I know, it just barely failed to work out. After that near miss, I'm certain a duo multi-billion build could succeed.
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I agree with the spirit of the post, but it isn't nearly this simple. Maybe with the right combination of primary/secondary from each you can get close........but not with a simple Blaster primary compared to a Defender secondary.|
Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
I can make a defender that out blasts a blaster. Simply pick the best defender blast set and pair it against the worst blaster primary. |
None of the Blaster sets are that big of an outlier on the low end. They're pretty standardized anymore, although a few really stick out on the high end of the scale.
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I'm fairly confident any sufficiently powerful and clever PermaDom could probably pull it off. Probably would require a sleep however.
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Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
PS: I know someone that was working on a multi-billion Solo LRSF build. As far as I know, it just barely failed to work out. After that near miss, I'm certain a duo multi-billion build could succeed.
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Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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This seems to be an epidemic lately.|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
I used to open for teams with AoEs on my Force Field Defender (38% vs melee, capped vs Ranged, AoE and Psi) all the time. I survived alphas from groups of +5 pretty easily.
I seemed to have incredible bad luck of getting scaredy-tank teams, doubly frustrating because everyone would be standing around at capped defence waiting for the tank to go in and start after a round full of "Ready"s at each spawn. I came to despise the words "Let the tank tank". |
I'm not sure what the deal is, but it seems that unless I'm teamed with a friend and they're playing a Tank, every Tank I team with is scared to death of heading into a fight first.
I find myself leading into a fight if I'm playing a Scrapper...or a Controller...or a Defender...or a BLASTER. Seriously, that's how bad it's gotten.
I'm sure there are plenty of decent Tanks out there. I just have had the bad luck to not team with them.
Am I just unlucky here, or are there really that many cowardly Tanks out there?
Er, sorry for getting off-topic, just had to rant a bit since the topic came up.
Healzors and timid tanks scare me the most.
I play alot of support/scrap/tank type toons.
Normally I start my own teams.
If/when im recruiting either a tank or another support toon my first questions are...
If its a tank, "are you a timid tank and scared of takin alphas?"
If its a support toon that I know is empathy, by way of search comment or whatever,
Its, "do you buff and blast or only heal?".
I know right away by their response whether or not they'll work out in the team im building.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Your RL job has exactly squat to do with how you play a game.|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
In RL I am an engineering designer.
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| I am what you would call, someone that thinks "outside" of the box. |
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| My IQ was tested at 166, but that was back in high school. |
And some kind of appeal to authority, based on your purported IQ gets you exactly nowhere (other than into a room full of people rolling their eyes at you in collective disgust).
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| If I tell you that decreasing the defense of a critter by 50% will increase your dps, you might want to try it before flaming it just to get your post count up. |
It's a sorry defender who can't buff/debuff/heal AND attack at the same time.
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| I play 28 mmogs, so the chances you will see me online anymore are slim. |
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| Squash any good idea people. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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No ones soloed it, I'd just be interested to know if less than 3 can do it on the right settings. When the Banes come out that would be some moment to put dampeners on the attempt.
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Originally Posted by LostHalo
Soloing the STF? I'm kind of skeptical on that claim. And it isn't soloing it to be using a glitch like '-1 to level' incorrectly spawning the final AVs... I've personally been in a trio of the STF and haven't attempted a duo at all but soloing... I'm not buying that.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Sometimes I have to think "Let the Tank learn".
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
I came to despise the words "Let the tank tank".
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I could see perma-PA keeping the AVs off a controller while the Rad debuffs and single target damage output take them down. An Ill/Rad seems like they would be able to pull it off.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
No ones soloed it
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During LR, PA once again tanks, while you have RI on Recluse to keep him from spawning and CC prevents the repairmen from acting.
Once the towers are down, inspires should be able to carry you through the crazy spawn at the end.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Defenders (and IMO even more so, Corruptors) are one of the most versatile AT's in the game.While they are focused on being a support role they can easily take up a offensive role as well. Its all a matter of play style.
D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.
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From what I hear, phantom army fails at tanking lord recluse because they can't generate aggro through damage. He ends up aggroing players because the aggro generated from him seeing them damage the towers is enough to set him off.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I could see perma-PA keeping the AVs off a controller while the Rad debuffs and single target damage output take them down. An Ill/Rad seems like they would be able to pull it off.
During LR, PA once again tanks, while you have RI on Recluse to keep him from spawning and CC prevents the repairmen from acting. |
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You're probably right. If you summon the PA at a tower before you attack the tower, LR will probably aggro on them first. However, the players damage should generate more threat than the PA after a short time (not to mention, when the PA needs to be re-summoned, I imagine their threat gets totally reset). Not sure how the Phantasm's decoy interacts in that scenario either.|
Originally Posted by Garent
From what I hear, phantom army fails at tanking lord recluse because they can't generate aggro through damage. He ends up aggroing players because the aggro generated from him seeing them damage the towers is enough to set him off.
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I do not know enough of Ill and their pets and their aggro mechanics to say myself. My only higher level Ill is a concept Ill/Emp without PA or Phantasm.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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The problem is that with the Orange Tower, it's basically impossible for PA to maintain aggro because they have to pass ToHit checks in order to do so...and LR really, really hates people touching his Towers. You're also kind of discounting the annoyance factor of Repairmen.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
You're probably right. If you summon the PA at a tower before you attack the tower, LR will probably aggro on them first. However, the players damage should generate more threat than the PA after a short time (not to mention, when the PA needs to be re-summoned, I imagine their threat gets totally reset). Not sure how the Phantasm's decoy interacts in that scenario either.
I do not know enough of Ill and their pets and their aggro mechanics to say myself. My only higher level Ill is a concept Ill/Emp without PA or Phantasm. |
As for the Patrons... PA are going to get you killed due to lack of aggro unless you single pull each one of them--also that they don't decide to just AoE you or outright ignore the pets--and after that, I'd have to see what the DPS output of an Ill/Rad actually is to alleviate skepticism. +4s have a lot of inherent resistance from the Purple Patch, not to mention each AV's individual resistance.
After that, I'm kind of curious on the first mission--those ambushes can get to be pretty heinous. Of course, if you're not running the TF on x8, then I'm doubtful of it really being valid.
And with that, what this discussion needs is:
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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Yeah, I wasn't thinking about the fact that PA would need to hit LR in order to apply their big taunt effect. I did, however, account for the repairmen, I mentioned CC as an aid. Whether or not it would stop the repairmen often/soon enough, I cannot say, but it was my attempt to account for them.|
Originally Posted by LostHalo
The problem is that with the Orange Tower, it's basically impossible for PA to maintain aggro because they have to pass ToHit checks in order to do so...and LR really, really hates people touching his Towers. You're also kind of discounting the annoyance factor of Repairmen.
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I wonder if Hover and massive ranged (or Nrg) defense could be achieved. With fully slotted RI you probably "only" need ~70% defense to hit the soft cap.
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Originally Posted by LostHalo
As for the Patrons... PA are going to get you killed due to lack of aggro unless you single pull each one of them--also that they don't decide to just AoE you or outright ignore the pets--and after that, I'd have to see what the DPS output of an Ill/Rad actually is to alleviate skepticism. +4s have a lot of inherent resistance from the Purple Patch, not to mention each AV's individual resistance.
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Originally Posted by LostHalo
After that, I'm kind of curious on the first mission--those ambushes can get to be pretty heinous. Of course, if you're not running the TF on x8, then I'm doubtful of it really being valid.
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In mission 1, its pretty easy to pull Sands around and lose one ambusher out of the big ambush spawn (and then no new ambushes will spawn since you haven't killed the last one).
The vines should be doable at even con, even at x8, but it certainly would be more challenging at x8.
The ambushers in mission 4 can be fun to deal with, but it seems pretty mundane. Rad does have some trouble with how the spawns would be spread out though, but with IO sets to survive AVs and the pet chaos (+spectral terrors greatness), I can't see it being a big deal.
Doing it at x8, just seems like an unnecessary delay before the real challenges of Aeon and mission 5.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
well, someone's already been able to solo an mITF and a LSRF - a Perma Dom.... of course. Blueboard name Kahlan - he's got pics to verify, very impressive even if its a perma dom
I fail to see how it being a permadom detracts from the accomplishment.
Care to elaborate?
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
I'm guessing because a perma-dom is what everyone expected to do it, so it's not as amazing as it would be if some weird build came out of left field and did it.
It´s not like permadom is a guarantee for success. I imagine you still have to work for it.
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this....|
Originally Posted by Garent
I'm guessing because a perma-dom is what everyone expected to do it, so it's not as amazing as it would be if some weird build came out of left field and did it.
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if built right for solo damage mitigation, they are WAY overpowered in damage output - there's a severe loss of balance. There seemed to be a lack of risk/reward balance when one char can easily mitigate that risk, and somehow consistently maintain that high lvl of reward. Thats what i do with two defenders who's designed to buff others but basically "self-buff" themselves.
There was a Speed LGTF that i did with a Perma Dom and he pretty much massacred everything once he took a bit of time to charge up his Dom. It was very impressive to see one character put out SO much offense(much more than a blaster) but in the same time scary cuz he really didnt need much support lol...... not sure what his build was but he was very UNSQUISHY
<---- done with thread-jacking
OP, I build all my alts as if there was nobody else on the team. They all take powers from both power sets.
In this game balanced characters are the most efficient. All my alts can solo a mission even if everyone else on the team goes afk, that includes my defenders.
My FF defender has all the def buffing you would expect from getting a FF defender in your team + aid other, aid self and a bunch of blasts slotted for damage (the thunderstrike set is force fielder GOLD).
Try a balanced build on your second build, you never know it may surprise you.
Trying to play CoH like a heal bot resto druid is EPIC FAIL in this game.
In CoH you can have your cake and eat it too.
You don't need tank/healer/3xDPS before you can play - infact you dont need it at all.
[color:#489AFF]Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601[/color]
[color:#489AFF]http://www.cohplanner.com/[/color]
[color:#B1C9F5]Click this DataLink to open the build![/color]
Not a Duffbot:Level 50 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
Hero Profile:
Personal Force Field:
Defense Buff
Dark Blast:
Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 2: Deflection Shield:
Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
Red Fortune - Defense
Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
Level 4:Gloom:
Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 6:Insulation Shield:
Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
Red Fortune - Defense
Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
Level 8:Swift:
Flight Speed IO
Level 10:Hover:
Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
Endurance Reduction IO
Level 12ispersion Bubble:
Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
Red Fortune - Defense
Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 14:Fly
Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 16:Tenebrous Tentacles:
Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
Level 18:Health:
Healing IO
Level 20:Stamina:
Endurance Modification IO
Performance Shifter - EndMod
Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
Level 22:Night Fall:
Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
Recharge Reduction IO
Level 24etention Field:
Accuracy IO
Accuracy IO
Level 26:Maneuvers:
Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
Red Fortune - Defense
Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 28:Repulsion Bomb:
Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
Level 30:Tactics:
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
Level 32:Force Bolt:
Accuracy IO
Level 35:Life Drain:
Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 38:Vengeance:
Defense Buff IO
Level 41:Oppressive Gloom:
Stupefy - Accuracy/Endurance
Stupefy - Endurance/Stun
Level 44ark Embrace
Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
Titanium Coating - Resistance
Titanium Coating - Endurance
Level 47:Soul Drain:
Obliteration - Damage
Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
Level 49:Soul Transfer:
Disorient Duration IO
Level 1:Sprint:
Celerity - Stealth
Set Bonus Totals:
9.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]6.13% Defense(Smashing)[*]6.13% Defense(Lethal)[*]5.81% Defense(Fire)[*]5.81% Defense(Cold)[*]19.9% Defense(Energy)[*]19.9% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]9.25% Defense(Melee)[*]25.5% Defense(Ranged)[*]8.63% Defense(AoE)[*]57% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]33.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]22% FlySpeed[*]34.3 HP (3.38%) HitPoints[*]22% JumpHeight[*]22% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -4)[*]Knockup (Mag -4)[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 8.8%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 2.2%[*]MezResist(Stun) 4.4%[*]18.5% (0.31 End/sec) Recovery[*]9.76% Resistance(Fire)[*]9.76% Resistance(Cold)[*]22% RunSpeed
My first stab at a FF/dark build
Yikes! hmm I should learn to post Mids builds so they look ledgible :P
And if you don't have a zillion influe layin' around?
Just by quick observation, nothing in there is particularly expensive except for maybe the Obliteration set and the BotZ KB protection.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
I seemed to have incredible bad luck of getting scaredy-tank teams, doubly frustrating because everyone would be standing around at capped defence waiting for the tank to go in and start after a round full of "Ready"s at each spawn.
I came to despise the words "Let the tank tank".