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4 out of 5 squishies choose tanker brand "Taunt" before brushing for that longer lasting smile.
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Originally Posted by Firewasp
On a very rare occasion I would throw out a blast, but as soon as I did I was killed. That is why it was very rare
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So, you define "flamer" as "someone who disagrees with Firewasp", then?|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
I know, this is a Defender board so I will stop. I would say that 30% of the replies here have been very good information for a Defender prospects, while 70% of the replies were nothing more than flamers. Squash any good idea people.
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Consider this: You walk into a place that logically concentrates the experts on a subject--people who have been analyzing and working with the subject for years, who have pushed it far beyond expectations, and some of whom are regarded by the people who actually created the subject as experts--and 70% of them disagree with you. Is it not possible that this is because you're simply wrong? It's not quite on par with walking into an MIT physics lab and trying to expound upon the Time Cube, but it's something to think about.
Your "good idea" is actually only half of a good idea. You realized the potential of defender superteams, which is a step in the right direction. No one has disagreed on that part--they've only pointed out that many of us, including the experts referenced above, have been building such teams for years. Your insistence on clinging to a paradigm that doesn't apply here, however, unnecessarily hampers you.
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
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Originally Posted by Firewasp
One of the others asked me if I understood what a Defender's role was. Told them I wasn't really sure. They said that it was to help defend the team. That I wasn't designed to be a mini blaster. One told me that my dark blasts were actually debuffs to accuracy and that I should slot them for that. In other words, they told me what I have been saying all along.
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This is all that anyone needs to read to get to the point of this entire thread, and its main fallacy, which is that the OP has based the premise of his entire argument on the assumption that this player giving them advice knew what they were talking about, when they obviously didn't. When you proceed from a foundation of a false assumption, any results you garner are questionable at best.
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You never were.|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
Maybe I should just quit while I am ahead.
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| I am what you would call, someone that thinks "outside" of the box. |
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| My IQ was tested at 166, but that was back in high school. |
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| If I tell you that decreasing the defense of a critter by 50% will increase your dps, you might want to try it before flaming it just to get your post count up. |
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| I am in a guild on CoH, but it is a private guild and base. |
Go, 166 IQ! Huzzah!
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| The only time I play CoX is when there is a new Archtype. |
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| I've played the bane and it is low dps compared to a scrapper. Tried a widow the other day. The power timers are extremely long which makes it too boring to play. Hit the npc, wait 4 seconds, hit them again, wait ... I may as well be playing a broadsword. |
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| I would say that 30% of the replies here have been very good information for a Defender prospects, while 70% of the replies were nothing more than flamers. |
You know, I'm so done trying to avoid flaming you. You're worse than the average "healer" who posts here because you claim to be educated and intelligent and to have done at least the semblance of research to support your misguided beliefs, and it's all pretense. You say you think outside of the box, but you didn't think at all when you were told to conform to other MMORPG models for "class roles", you just swallowed it and passed it on. You say you have a high IQ, but you apparently aren't smart enough to do some simple tests which would have disproved everything you said about defenders using attacks, or even to realize that no-one needs to be at 100% HP 100% of the time.
You're not just ignorant, you're hypocritically, viciously, determinedly, willfully clueless. You're so convinced of your own superiority and inability to err that you're blatantly disregarding facts and collectively dozens of years of experience with this game in order to chastise the better players for doing everything right, just so you feel validated in your (lack of) play style.
Christ on a crutch, you're the punchline to the "healer" joke. Put your rectum necklace back on and hie off to one of your other 28 MMORPGs.
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| Squash any good idea people. |
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/em golfclap
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Originally Posted by Firewasp
Maybe I should just quit while I am ahead. No matter what I say.
If I say, "CoV is short for City of Villains", you would tell me that I was wrong. Flame on! In RL I am an engineering designer. I recently invented a device that increases the air temperature from the vents of a heat pump by up to 50 degrees F. Energy consumption drops drastically and it works every time in minutes. Your response might be, "Who cares. I like a cool house in the Winter! I am what you would call, someone that thinks "outside" of the box. My IQ was tested at 166, but that was back in high school. If I tell you that decreasing the defense of a critter by 50% will increase your dps, you might want to try it before flaming it just to get your post count up. And my global name IS Firewasp, but I do not only play CoH. I play 28 mmogs, so the chances you will see me online anymore are slim. You might catch me on Aion though. I am in a guild on CoH, but it is a private guild and base. The only time I play CoX is when there is a new Archtype. I've played the bane and it is low dps compared to a scrapper. Tried a widow the other day. The power timers are extremely long which makes it too boring to play. Hit the npc, wait 4 seconds, hit them again, wait ... I may as well be playing a broadsword. I know, this is a Defender board so I will stop. I would say that 30% of the replies here have been very good information for a Defender prospects, while 70% of the replies were nothing more than flamers. Squash any good idea people. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Your joke lacks........what's that called again......|
Originally Posted by Garuta
As for my "joke", that line wasn't directed at anyone but Brophog02, and it was specifically the line "Sooooo, you don't call out names on the Defender board, nowhere else?". I shouldn't have to explain that so thoroughly, but here we are. |
.....ah yes.........funny.
((In other words, absolutely no one got it. You bombed. The crowd threw old tomatoes at you. Speaking of which, how do those crowds get all of those tomatoes in there, anyhow. What's the bouncer do at these joints?))
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Holy ****. Did you just actually pull our your IQ to try to impress people?| My IQ was tested at 166 |
Wow. That's beyond fail. I think I'm done in this thread. Good luck with your "high IQ"!
Come late to this one.
Since Firewasp's alread started making declarations that those who disagree or question his assertions are flaming him, perhaps this is wasted breath, but I'll put my two cents in.
Firewasp's points about Defenders that ignore their secondaries to the expense of their primaries (Empath who blasts while teammates are dying, Forcefielder who lets bubbles expire or just never renews them after the first time, etc) are poor contributions to a team. No serious player on these boards would question that statement.
However, it's something of a straw man, because the underlying assumption is that this is a binary proposition. That a Defender must be either A) dedicated support who 'levels to 50 without ever killing anything' or B) a mini-Blaster who barely supports his/her team. It ain't like that.
Any reasonably competent Defender can provide all the benefit of A while still putting out damage, control and/or debuffs from the secondary powerset. It's not a continuum. Using the secondary powers doesn't remove your ability to use the primary powers, and it's actually an absurd argument when you really look at it. Does a Controller's use of his/her team support secondary powers reduce his/her ability to put out control? Not if he's any good. So why should taking and using blasts magically render a Defender unable to support a team? As for the "pure support" builds who take Medicine, Leadership, etc etc, in most cases the marginal benefit isn't worth what's given up - I would far rather have a fully contributing team member than someone who's ready to teleport and rez us after they sit around waiting to heal / re-buff us.
This isn't WoW or any of the other... what, 28?... MMOs you may have played. Comparisons to other games or appeals to gaming expertise based on experience in other games aren't valid to this game. The design is fundamentally different and deliberately at variance from the Tank/DPS/Heal trinity you see in so many other games. Anyone who does only dedicated support in this game is uninformed or lazy, because they could and should be doing more.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
I have learned my lesson. I have been flamed by almost everyone and now this serious post has become a farm (lets see if we can bump it to 100 replies, 200? 300?)
In the future you will never hear about my ideas and thoughts again. But when you hear a rumor of a player that did something that was supposed to be impossible, just remember that I would have shared it with others. In the future it will just be collected like my long list of patents.
You ever played Eve Online? I figured out a way to operate the largest epic mining barge with full T3 gear and getting full mining yields without having most of the skills necessary (saving over a year of skill training). It this find was given to one corp, the game would be so lopsided no one would ever play Eve Online again. When I reported to the developers of my findings, their reply was that if they fixed it, it would create too many other bugs. So this will never be nerfed. Then you have to ask yourself, "Will this exploit work on the largest fighting craft?"
I will change my global so you will never know who I was. You all own this forum and I overstepped my bounds. My apologies.
~unknown
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Big mistake to take things personal from strangers, big mistake. The less you're emotionally involved the better..... Sometimes you do get slamdunked here, just gotta roll with it.|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
I have learned my lesson. I have been flamed by almost everyone and now this serious post has become a farm (lets see if we can bump it to 100 replies, 200? 300?)
In the future you will never hear about my ideas and thoughts again. But when you hear a rumor of a player that did something that was supposed to be impossible, just remember that I would have shared it with others. In the future it will just be collected like my long list of patents. You ever played Eve Online? I figured out a way to operate the largest epic mining barge with full T3 gear and getting full mining yields without having most of the skills necessary (saving 8 months of skill training). It this find was given to one corp, the game would be so lopsided no one would ever play Eve Online again. When I reported to the developers of my findings, their reply was that if they fixed it, it would create too many other bugs. So this will never be nerfed. I will change my handle so you will never know who I was. You all own this forum and I overstepped my bounds. My apologies. ~unknown |
My two cents about this topic - Remember, ALL characters have a "Primary" and "Secondary" powerset, or you could say "role". The Primary powers of a Defender are.... Support! The Secondary powers of a defender are..... Offense. This offense isnt spectacular mind you, but it does offer supplemental damage, and most of the times, some effect that assists the team's offense or defense. There ya go....
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Sorry to veer a bit off-topic, but I'm trying to tiptoe around the drama. If you like soloing, Storm/ and Dark/ (in addition to Rad/ of course) have your name all over them. Traps/ TA/ Kin/ and Cold/ don't do too badly at soloing either. Couple with the likes of /Ice or /Archery (in addition to /Sonic of course) and I think you'll find ample reason to add more blue shields to your character list.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Personally, I flatly refuse to play a character of any kind that is incapable of soloing.
My defender experience is limited to Rad/Sonic thus far for that exact reason. |
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YOU are part of that team, as such, being able to defend yourself via attacks IS part of your job description. I don't care if you only have one attack, USE IT! |
We don't have talent trees to squeeze an extra 2%/4%/6%/8%/10% out of a subset of powers at the cost of ignoring all other powers. We don't have complex aggro rules that penalize you for taking extra actions in combat. We don't have particularly low limits on the number of powers you can accumulate, or the number of enhancement slots we can pass around. We don't have low level powers fading into uselessness as you level up.
What that all adds up to is that Defenders get 24 power picks, 91 enhancement slots, and 60 seconds of arcanatime and 100 base endurance recovery per minute, same as everyone else, and the only way to use those resources to the fullest is to build for versatility.
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We already know it won't be you, because people like you, who believe defenders are buff bots and "healers", who think they've discovered something new five years after everyone else figured it out, who state that it's impossible to fight purple-con foes without a "healer", don't achieve the impossible. People like you don't even hit average. People like you set your standards so low that what you consider "impossible" is the daily routine for everyone else.|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
when you hear a rumor of a player that did something that was supposed to be impossible,
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Get over yourself, snowflake.
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| You all own this forum |
Has everything to do with understanding the game, the AT and that defenders are capable of doing more than kissing boo-boos and guarding the front door.
Just gonna throw in my two cents here...
I have a Cold/Dark Defender that is level 49 now and that I have alot of fun playing solo or on teams.
I rely heavily on Ranged Defense. I geared my IO sets towards it. My Ranged Defense is currently at around 40%.
Tenebrous Tentacles from my Secondary Power Set helps immensely to keep enemies at Range and the -ToHit from my Secondary attacks makes me even harder to hit.
I am rarely ever hit, and when I am, one of my Secondary attacks has a heal in it.
Just throwing that out there.
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You've been a bit OTT. Calm down. Walk away.
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Originally Posted by Luminara
We already know it won't be you, because people like you, who believe defenders are buff bots and "healers", who think they've discovered something new five years after everyone else figured it out, who state that it's impossible to fight purple-con foes without a "healer", don't achieve the impossible. People like you don't even hit average. People like you set your standards so low that what you consider "impossible" is the daily routine for everyone else.
Get over yourself, snowflake. Has nothing to do with ownership. Has everything to do with understanding the game, the AT and that defenders are capable of doing more than kissing boo-boos and guarding the front door. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Go for it.
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Originally Posted by Westley
Can I put this in my signature?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
It's a shame you took your ball and went home...
You have actually generated some excellent advice and feedback within this discussion. I am sorry that you don't feel it was valuable, because it opposed your core premise. Good luck out there.
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I have already heard rumors of defenders that have taken on AVs. I can't imagine much more incredible than that, nor how that could really happen without primary and secondary contribution from the defender.|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
But when you hear a rumor of a player that did something that was supposed to be impossible, just remember that I would have shared it with others. In the future it will just be collected like my long list of patents.
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P.S. I keep wondering what your corruptor thoughts would be... (sorry, couldn't resist).
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Has anyone else noted the extreme irony of the title of this thread?
"The Unrealized Power of the Defender"
....and the OP was talking about Defenders ignoring their secondary being a good thing.
Hilarious.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I'm not even close to the top yet. Wait for another "heal arrow" thread, then you can see me blow a fruit loop.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
You've been a bit OTT. Calm down. Walk away.
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Lol, I was playing my Fire/TA troller a while back and a blaster on a PuG was complaining that I wasn't healing him. |
Originally Posted by Luminara
I'm not even close to the top yet. Wait for another "heal arrow" thread, then you can see me blow a fruit loop.
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Me: "Sorry, I didn't take the Heal Arrow"
Idiot blaster: "Why would you skip your heal?!"
I got a good laugh out of that one.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
You should have offered to respec so that you could shoot him in the *** with your Heal Arrow.
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rofl!!!
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Originally Posted by clawsandeffect
lol, i was playing my fire/ta troller a while back and a blaster on a pug was complaining that i wasn't healing him.
Me: "sorry, i didn't take the heal arrow" idiot blaster: "why would you skip your heal?!" i got a good laugh out of that one. |
Woot!
I've been sigged!
That's a first, usually I'm too much of a jerk for anyone to want to quote me.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Woot!
I've been sigged! That's a first, usually I'm too much of a jerk for anyone to want to quote me. |
Law of Averages dude, Law of Averages.
Besides, I'm consistently a bigger jerk than you'll ever be.
I know, this is a Defender board so I will stop. I would say that 30% of the replies here have been very good information for a Defender prospects, while 70% of the replies were nothing more than flamers. Squash any good idea people.
I would submit ArticQuark's rule of 4: any team with any 4 defenders is unstoppable. Most of the defenders in the Triumphant Defender's would have at the very least 2 blasts plus a nuke. We liked the use of rolling nukes A LOT. (You might except 4 Forcefield bubblers, but when was the last time 4 bubblers were in a single zone at one time?)
In short, I think most folks could meet a compromise between all support defender and all 8 blasting defenders.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.