Team Etiquette: My Misconception?
By
Afterimage,
Posted on: 2009-10-11 21:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It is the Fyflot(sp) if i remember from my SCA heralding days. And it is a peace symbol.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I find it hilarious that the term is considered insulting now. If you refer to someone as a negro you are being degrading, but refering to them as being black is acceptable.
It's hilarious because the two words mean the exact same thing. "Negro" is the Spanish word for the color black, which is where the term originated from in the first place. So if you call someone a negro, you are calling them black. Which, generally speaking, they are. The other N word is offensive, largely because it is a perversion of an actual word, specifically intended to be degrading. It has no place in the language because it was never a real word. For the record, I am not racist or prejudiced in any way shape or form. I just think it's funny that a word that is synonymous with an accepted term in a different language is considered offensive. I don't use it myself, but there is nothing wrong with the word, in and of itself, just with the stigma attached to it. I also don't use African-American largely because not all dark skinned people of African descent live in America, so they are by definition NOT African American. The only people who are truly African-American are African immigrants who are now American citizens. If they were born and raised in America, they are Americans, simple as that, skin color is irrelevant and not an indication of nationality. Also,if you see a swastika nowadays you immediately think of persecution and intolerance. Very few people realize that it was originally a symbol of peace and harmony that was perverted by the Nazis for their own ends. They apparently figured that using a symbol associated with good things would blind people to their true intentions, and it didn't work. So, now a symbol that was originaly a good thing is irrevocably tied to one of the most evil and distasteful things to ever occur in our history. The Maltese cross is another thing they took, which most people know as an Iron cross. It doesn't really mean what people usually think it does. (the original swastika was the other way around, when the Nazis adopted it they reversed it. I'm not even entirely sure if "swastika" is the corerect name for it, or just what the Nazis called it, someone better versed in history than I will have to answer that) Just a couple prime examples of perception being more powerful than truth. |
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I'm pretty sure that I've been unfairly kicked from a team for doing this. I say "unfairly" because, as far as I could tell, when I used my holds and immobilizes on a group of baddies that the tank hadn't quite grouped it was okay because no one faceplanted. No one told me that they were having an issue with the fact that I was doing this. I even thought that, since no one was dying, I was helping. Apparently there was a lot of private chatting about what I was doing between the other team members (most of them were in the same SG), and they ultimately decided to kick me after a brief "You're slowing us down too much, so we'll see you later." It took a while (and repeated tells to my friend on the team) to figure out what the issue was.|
Originally Posted by RobertoLyon
If the Troller's locking them down before the Tank has full aggro and groupage, he'll learn!
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My point, in relation to this quote, is that if this is an issue and no one tells the Troller, barring difficulties for which the Troller is obviously responsible, the Troller in question won't learn unless someone educates them. (This is basically a reiteration of the "Communication is Important" point which has already been made several times here).
Seven word summary of what I just said: They won't know unless you tell them.
KaliMagdelene:
My issue is with the perception attached to things that should not be there. If I were to use the Maltese cross and the Fyflot in the sense of their original meaning, the vast majority of people would make an assumption on what I mean by it, and accuse me of being something I am not.
Because the Nazis used those symbols and attached a different meaning to them, the original meaning is now viewed to be invalid and incorrect, which is just not true.
I was being literally truthful in what I said, which is apparently meaningless because people see what they want to see, and no amount of logic or literal truth will ever change their minds. Which is unfortunate.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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That's not the same at all - being free to look the way you want to look is all that matters, in RL or in a game.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And what about female players that play characters with ramped up chest sliders, pencil thin waists and massive hips that are 7'+ tall?
 There's being forced into something, and then theres actively embracing it.So you get the knuckle-dragger types (metaphorically) on both sides. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Except in RL it's incerdibly hard to be anything other than what you are.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's not the same at all - being free to look the way you want to look is all that matters, in RL or in a game.
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That's kinda the whole point of a game. To do things and be something you can't be IRL.
IRL, I'm a middle height, pretty average unnoticeable sorta student.
In game I can be my shorter, smarter and evil counterpart, commanding an army of robots, or my towering, noble alter ego who can hold off the tide of villainy with one hand.
Or anything.
Games =/= RL. Never have done, never will do.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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That's not what I mean - I eman that a female player shouldn't feel pressue into making a male avatar to avoid unwanted attention, just like a woman in RL shouldn't feel pressured to dress and look a certain way.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Except in RL it's incerdibly hard to be anything other than what you are.
That's kinda the whole point of a game. To do things and be something you can't be IRL. IRL, I'm a middle height, pretty average unnoticeable sorta student. In game I can be my shorter, smarter and evil counterpart, commanding an army of robots, or my towering, noble alter ego who can hold off the tide of villainy with one hand. Or anything. Games =/= RL. Never have done, never will do. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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People aren't seeing what they "want to see." People are seeing how the symbols have been used in the past 100 years. There is no objective truth to these symbols, only their usage by human beings. If you want to use the Maltese Cross or the fylfot in that context, you'll have to do some work to redeem their image, or you'll have to explain what you really mean every time someone sees you parading around what appear to be Nazi symbols.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
KaliMagdelene:
My issue is with the perception attached to things that should not be there. If I were to use the Maltese cross and the Fyflot in the sense of their original meaning, the vast majority of people would make an assumption on what I mean by it, and accuse me of being something I am not. Because the Nazis used those symbols and attached a different meaning to them, the original meaning is now viewed to be invalid and incorrect, which is just not true. I was being literally truthful in what I said, which is apparently meaningless because people see what they want to see, and no amount of logic or literal truth will ever change their minds. Which is unfortunate. |
What you said isn't meaningless, but it is wrong and misinformed. You think that original meanings should easily overcome more vivid and recent usage, as if symbols have an objective existence outside of human perception and consciousness. The fact that you can't acknowledge this subjectivity makes it impossible to even discuss symbolism, simply because you don't acknowledge what symbolism is (rather than what you wish it to be).
But all said and done, no one is oppressed or harmed by the fact that these symbols are associated with Nazism, although many were harmed by Nazism itself.
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(QR)
This whole thread has been one small post for a woman or man, and one giant leap for humankind.
I use "he or she" or "they", or otherwise a more descriptive type of pronoun depending on the context or situation at hand. The reason I do this is that I find the 'masculine pronoun default' rule to be both archaic and sexist; one relic of a bygone era whose values are best left abandoned, and it needs to be changed. The only way you can change it is if you yourself stop using it and use something else, and thus lead by example. That's one of the ways languages evolve.
But as seen in this tiny thread, some people can only be dragged into the future kicking and screaming.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Also,if you see a swastika nowadays you immediately think of persecution and intolerance. Very few people realize that it was originally a symbol of peace and harmony that was perverted by the Nazis for their own ends. They apparently figured that using a symbol associated with good things would blind people to their true intentions, and it didn't work. So, now a symbol that was originaly a good thing is irrevocably tied to one of the most evil and distasteful things to ever occur in our history.
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The "reverse swastika" (with the right angles pointing left, and not right as the Nazis did) is used in Japanese on road maps to denote Shinto shrines. It is called a "Manji" in Japan.
The "regular" swastika has been used by Native Americans for centuries. In fact, if you go to the big, old hotel in downtown Rapid City, SD (forget the name), you'll see chandilers (sp?) with this symbol picked out in decorative tiles.
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I'm not getting into the pronoun debate at large here. Let's just say I'm more or less with GG on this and leave it at that.
As for teaming etiquette: Communication is the A and O of every team. Whether you consider letting the mission-holder click glowies or not, whether you want to clear or stealth missions, people will only know if you tell them to. If you're not doing as well as you hoped, the only way to get a new strategy is to actually talk to your team-mates.
Anecdote time! So I was on this Numina Task Force once and early on I asked the leader if they had a plan for the Big Hunt and they didn't, really, but planned to cross that bridge once we get to it. I asked if I could just take charge for the Hunt and organise who goes where, etc etc. I was on exactly one Numina TF before, and I didn't even organise the Hunt then. Clearly I had the perfect credentials for the job.
It went fine at first, but half-way through, I got really confused on who is where currently, how far the current part of the Hunt has progressed, and keeping tabs on ParagonWiki and the team-chat all at the same time. I lost track of things and we ended up resorting to little more than a dibs system.
And it still worked. Why? Because people actually said where they were going to go and the rest could adjust accordingly.
At another time, I was leading a Barracuda Strike and we were doing fine at the first mission. At the second mission, however, we started doing fairly badly, thanks to several people really liking to take charge and be the first in battle, and when the Brute and the Crab Spider run into two different directions, the rest of the team will end up splitting up.
What I noticed is that the Crab Spider was at the head of the team most of the time and I decided to play on my team-leader authority and officially announce that Crab Spider the team's spear-head. Not a whole lot changed in terms of individual playing-styles, but now that everyone knew who to follow there were no team-splits, meaning it was us who steam-rolled Nazis instead.
Moral of the story is that communication is everything when dealing with other people. You don't even need to tell them to change the very way they think, just nudge them into a slightly different direction and things will go smoothly.