Most Useless Blueside Class?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-10-07 18:07 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Make a fire/kin controller - tell her to take repel and keep it on ALL the time...
*giggles*
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Actually I played a Kin/Elec defender to about level 39 or so, but I disliked it, so I deleted it when I wanted to make a different character (this was before you could buy extra slots).|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Haven't played a kin/electric defender have you? Okay then.
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I also played Dark/Electric to level 50 and kept it, but wished pretty much the whole time I had picked a different secondary (it was my first /Elec ever). I also tried Rad/Electric to the late 20s and got frustrated with it too. I cant remember if I did any other /Elec Defenders. I also played an Elec/Dev Blaster to level 31 or so and hated it as well.
Still, its probably just a playstyle thing, to where I probably just dont work well with the set.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
absolutely any archetype... but take nothing, and I mean nothing, but pool powers above level 6.
That'd be useless.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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If this was Redside Petless Masterminds would probably be mentioned within the first few posts. So on the Blueside...how about petless Illusionist trollers?
Peace Bringer, useless as teets on a fish.
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
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Okay, that's actually really funny. I'll have to consider that.
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Originally Posted by Slitty
Make a fire/kin controller - tell her to take repel and keep it on ALL the time...
*giggles* |
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Nonsense. You obviously haven't played one. Check out the PB player guides for more.|
Originally Posted by pyrite
Peace Bringer, useless as teets on a fish.
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Last night, I played a 20th level PB to 22 who added a *lot* of ranged firepower with build ups and blasts, as well as white dwarf taunts and swipes, with a team that rolled through two mission arcs. PB's are highly flexible and in the hands of the right player, they rock.
Make a regeneration scrapper, don't take any of the heals and only take integration, resilience, and revive.
Or make a blaster without any of its blasts and only take melee powers.
Or make a toggle man spines/dark scrapper with every toggle you can get your hands on and then balance around not having stamina rofl!!!
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Illusion/Anything Controller. Acquire as much AoE defense as you can, and do nothing except watch every fight. No buffs, no control, but a pair of eyes.
If someone asks what you are doing, just say:
I.
Am.
The Supervisor.
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Hmmm... a phantom player with no army!|
Originally Posted by Ethric
Illusion/Anything Controller. Acquire as much AoE defense as you can, and do nothing except watch every fight. No buffs, no control, but a pair of eyes.
If someone asks what you are doing, just say: I. Am. The Supervisor. |
(Never mind me, I'm completely invisible.)
most useless archtype on a team is scrapper.
most useless archtype solo is a defender.
most useless character on a team is an elec/devices blaster
most useless character solo is a ff/elec defender
You said blueside, but, if you want to go red, I got one. I had to share this somewhere before reactivation weekend ended and my account expired. Support a team without ever being seen!
+---------------------------------------------
+ Built with SuckerPunch's Online Planner
+ http://www.cohplanner.com
+---------------------------------------------
Name: Stalkfender
Level: 50
Archetype: Stalker
Primary: Dark Melee
Secondary: Ninjitsu
+---------------------------------------------
01 => Hide
Defense Buff(1)
01 => Smite
Accuracy(1)
Accuracy(19)
ToHit DeBuffs(43)
ToHit DeBuffs(46)
02 => Ninja Reflexes
Defense Buff(2)
Defense Buff(3)
Defense Buff(3)
Endurance Cost(9)
04 => Danger Sense
Defense Buff(4)
Defense Buff(5)
Defense Buff(5)
Endurance Cost(9)
06 => Aid Other
Heal(6)
Heal(7)
Heal(7)
Attack Rate(13)
Interrupt Time(13)
Range(15)
08 => Stimulant
Attack Rate(8)
Interrupt Time(50)
10 => Grant Invisibility
Defense Buff(10)
Defense Buff(11)
Defense Buff(11)
Endurance Cost(15)
12 => Recall Friend
Range(12)
14 => Teleport
Endurance Cost(14)
16 => Placate
Attack Rate(16)
Attack Rate(17)
Attack Rate(17)
18 => Kuji-In Rin
Attack Rate(18)
Attack Rate(19)
20 => Resuscitate
Attack Rate(20)
Attack Rate(21)
Attack Rate(21)
22 => Kuji-In Sha
Heal(22)
Heal(23)
Heal(23)
Attack Rate(42)
Attack Rate(42)
Attack Rate(42)
24 => Assault
Endurance Cost(24)
Endurance Cost(25)
Endurance Cost(25)
26 => Tactics
Endurance Cost(26)
Endurance Cost(27)
Endurance Cost(27)
ToHit Buff(36)
ToHit Buff(40)
ToHit Buff(40)
28 => Smoke Flash
Accuracy(28)
Attack Rate(29)
Accuracy(29)
Attack Rate(34)
Accuracy(39)
Attack Rate(40)
30 => Vengeance
ToHit Buff(30)
Defense Buff(31)
ToHit Buff(31)
Defense Buff(31)
Heal(43)
Defense Buff(43)
32 => Maneuvers
Defense Buff(32)
Defense Buff(33)
Defense Buff(33)
Endurance Cost(33)
Endurance Cost(34)
Endurance Cost(34)
35 => Blinding Powder
Accuracy(35)
Accuracy(36)
Attack Rate(36)
Attack Rate(37)
Confusion Duration(37)
Confusion Duration(37)
38 => Kuji-In Retsu
Attack Rate(38)
Attack Rate(39)
Attack Rate(39)
41 => Mu Bolts
Accuracy(41)
44 => Electric Shackles
Accuracy(44)
Accuracy(45)
Accuracy(45)
Hold Duration(45)
Hold Duration(46)
Hold Duration(46)
47 => Summon Adept
Attack Rate(47)
Attack Rate(48)
Attack Rate(48)
Accuracy(48)
Accuracy(50)
Damage(50)
49 => Caltrops
Attack Rate(49)
01 => Sprint
Running Speed()
01 => Brawl
Accuracy()
02 => Rest
Attack Rate()
+---------------------------------------------
No AT is useless, but from a strict numbers standpoint Defenders are the least useful (at least on teams). Controllers have about 80% as much buff / debuff power as well as powerful crowd control... Defenders just have buff / debuff powers and weak blasts.
Of course a full team of Defenders can steamroll just about anything... they're actually a fairly powerful AT. It's just that Controllers are even more powerful and both compete for the same support positions on a team.
EDIT... well, I seem to have touched a nerve since someone decided to give me negative reputation over this post. Too bad. I stand by what I said. Controllers can do everything Defenders can do nearly as well as a Defender. Not as well, but fairly close. However, Controllers can also do a lot more for a team with their primary than a Defender can with their secondary... AoE controls and moderate (assuming not Fire) damage are better than just moderate damage. Look on the Defender boards and you'll see plenty of complaints about this issue...
I'm not saying Defenders are bad. I love teaming with them... they make a huge difference in team survivability. But in general (exceptions do exist) a Controller with the same buff/debuff set will add even more to the team than a Defender will. For instance, a Kin/Energy Defender adds a ton of damage buffs and recharge / recovery buffs to a team as well as some extra damage. An Earth / Kin Controller adds lower but still very nice damage buffs, along with the ability to neutralize an entire spawn if need be. I'll take the ability to lock down troublesome bosses or disrupt an entire second spawn long enough for the team to finish the first one and get ready for the adds over Defender damage output.
Again, I'm not saying Defenders are bad. I'm saying Controllers are too good compared to Defenders because they get massive control while still having about 80% of a Defender's buff / debuff power and they get Containment, which often lets them outdamage a Defender's blasts with their roots and holds. Defenders need more damage, a better inherent, or both... and until they get it any min-maxer looking to put together the "perfect team" is going to pick a Controller instead of a Defender in almost any circumstances. Don't believe me? Play both and see for yourself.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
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Ill 2nd this as the most useless class ever. Really just dead weight on the team.
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Originally Posted by LostHalo
"Healer". And the most direct translation possible: Emp/Psy with the Medicine Pool. Nothing used but the direct heals and the Rezzes.
But even then, there is literally nothing in this game that is useless that isn't directly funded by the stupidity and/or ego of the player. It isn't EQ or FFxi. There are no low level Thieves here. :: *With your newly-added conditions, I present to you Kinetics/AR. Once the nature of the cones and their animations start showing up, Kinetics will become far less enjoyable. |
Not sure about most useless class but the worst team mate would have to be a Grav/FF controller that does the following:
Takes only Forcebubble and the Phase Shift powers in each and spams them continually.
Runs Forcebubble all the time aggroing the map.
Fills out his power picks with the Flight, Teleportation and Stealth pools then continually uses group fly and team teleprtation while casting invisibility on the tank.
When the crap hits the fan they jump into PFF and are the only one to survive.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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I think I might roll one of these someday only to do what you said from time to time XD
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Originally Posted by Psiphon
Not sure about most useless class but the worst team mate would have to be a Grav/FF controller that does the following:
Takes only Forcebubble and the Phase Shift powers in each and spams them continually. Runs Forcebubble all the time aggroing the map. Fills out his power picks with the Flight, Teleportation and Stealth pools then continually uses group fly and team teleprtation while casting invisibility on the tank. When the crap hits the fan they jump into PFF and are the only one to survive. |
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I have one of these, currently at level 26. Early on endurance is a huge PIA, but once you get stamina and some halfway decent slotting it's a lot of fun. And not useless! Just very very noisy atm.
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Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Invulnerability / Ice ... just because it seems so slow. Also, the arrival time of the attacks, and when they need to be slotted, and the damage they do ... it just seems to all arrive at a very awkward time compared to when I'd want to do be doing certain things with the primary. Basically, I think it'd be hard to level up and a bit tedious. Thats pure conjecture tho. I admit that I sorta want to try one. I've been avoiding it. I have too many projects already |
Speaking of ATs in a generalized way, where: Useful = effective in normative play (4+-man door teams):
De/buff sets and AoE Damage-intensive sets are tied for first place. Control and single-target damage are tied for third place, and self-defense sets come in dead last. The blueside initial ATs from most useful to least are:
1. Defenders
2. Blasters
3. Controllers
4. Scrappers
5. Tankers
There are plenty of reasons to play Scrappers and Tankers, including concept and roleplay, and a love of being "in the action" and at the center of attention. But normative performance isn't one. If one is looking for particularly ineffective combinations of specific sets, melee types are good place to start. I recommend:
Martial Arts or War Mace[1] with Invulnerability or Ice Armor on a Tanker or Scrapper.
Mind, Gravity, Earth, or Ice with Trick Arrow, Forcefield, or Sonic on a Controller.
[1] Nor have I been impressed with claws or broadsword, though they're a little better.
The polar opposites of this, of course, are AoE-damage-centric blasts (Fire, Ice, Archery, Radiation), and the best of the aggressive de/buffs-- Storm, Radiation, and Kinetics. But also avoid the best AoE damaging Control sets, Fire and Plant.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
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I'll go bust you out some better status, but I think you're wrong about this. I've never run the numbers, but averaged across all sets or even comparing best to best, I suspect defender AoE blasting outperforms contained controller AoE damage.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Controllers can do everything Defenders can do nearly as well as a Defender. Not as well, but fairly close. However, Controllers can also do a lot more for a team with their primary than a Defender can with their secondary... AoE controls and moderate (assuming not Fire) damage are better than just moderate damage.
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And, much as I might wish it otherwise, AoE Damge is practically the name of the game, whereas control is, at best, over-rated. I play more controllers than defenders, but defenders > controllers.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
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I agree with the first part of the post, but you seem to contradict yourself on the list.|
Originally Posted by Enantiodromos
Speaking of ATs in a generalized way, where: Useful = effective in normative play (4+-man door teams):
De/buff sets and AoE Damage-intensive sets are tied for first place. Control and single-target damage are tied for third place, and self-defense sets come in dead last. The blueside initial ATs from most useful to least are: 1. Defenders 2. Blasters 3. Controllers 4. Scrappers 5. Tankers |
Based on the principles you stated, I'd put Controllers and Defenders on the first 2 spots (Controller first, as they have both good AoE damage and buff/debuff). Then I'd put Tanker and Blasters on the 3th and 4th spot (which would be up to debate, since Tankers fill both the role of aggro control/management and are also able to put out some respectable AoE damage, but not as much as Blasters)
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A lot of it depends on team composition. In my experience, non-Kin Defender damage isn't that high... it's useful, but not something that makes a huge difference in spawn clearing time. Granted, most Controller damage is also not high enough to make a big difference either, but it's not that much lower and in some cases can be higher (especially single target). What really makes Controllers more effective than Defenders (in my opinion) is their AoE immobilizes... they tend to keep things nice and bunched up even if people start tossing out knockback powers. Since Blaster AoE is what clears spawns fastest on a team and quite a few Blaster AoEs do knockback that's a big help.... it also means no scattering when things like rain powers and Burn get fired off. I believe that the added damage from keeping everything nicely grouped outweighs the added damage from Defender AoEs in many situations. Add in the utility of being able to neutralize adds long enough to avoid wipes in some cases (unconsious heroes have zero DPS) and it just seems to me that Controllers have the edge.|
Originally Posted by Enantiodromos
I'll go bust you out some better status, but I think you're wrong about this. I've never run the numbers, but averaged across all sets or even comparing best to best, I suspect defender AoE blasting outperforms contained controller AoE damage.
And, much as I might wish it otherwise, AoE Damge is practically the name of the game, whereas control is, at best, over-rated. I play more controllers than defenders, but defenders > controllers. |
Now of course adding several Defenders to a team can make them so strong they don't really care about adds, but so can adding several Controllers. Really, multiple support ATs quickly make a team so powerful it pretty much steamrolls any normal content, so I'm focusing on the case of only having one or two support and the rest damage dealers or tanks. I find that any time I'm teamed with 3+ Defenders and/or Controllers (in nearly any mix of powersets) survival becomes a complete non-issue and the team speed starts to depend 100% on how many AoE Blasters we have.
(If I was voting on "least useful" for preset superteams I'd go with Tankers... with the right buffs you don't need one and you can just add more damage. But I'm looking at this from a PUG standpoint.)
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
(If I was voting on "least useful" for preset superteams I'd go with Tankers... with the right buffs you don't need one and you can just add more damage. But I'm looking at this from a PUG standpoint.) |
That is my vote... You don't really need a tank for anything in the game. So I would make a fire armor ( No healing flames) / SS
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 48 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Jab -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Punch -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Stealth -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Grant Invisibility -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Hand Clap -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Aid Other -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stimulant -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Assault -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Tactics -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Vengeance -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Rise of the Phoenix -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Hurl -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Energy Torrent -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
You know what would be funny? A kinetic defender who doesnt have Transfusion, Speed Boost, Transference or Fulcrum Shift.
Then when a team is all excited that they found a kin and everyone is asking for speed boost, heals or FS you dont have it. Make sure you get Repel so you can send the enemies flying, the tanks and scrappers will hate that. Hilarity will ensue.
Also useless is a Trick Arrow defender. Maybe a Sonic/Trick Arrow defender, because then you will be useless (Trick Arrow) AND annoying (Sonic) at the same time.
Ive recently found a Traps defender to be semi useless. Theyre actually very slow, so when the team is dying around you, you really dont have anything to offer to save the team but to kneel down and try to set another useless trap.
hth
Global: @Fire Beam
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If the team is dying around the Traps Defender, it's because the Traps Defender failed to use the Traps to their fullest potential at the start; Traps is not a "panic" set, it's a "control" set. There is a lot of good to come of Traps, but you have to use them before disaster occurs. Traps prevent disasters, they don't repair them.
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Originally Posted by marc100
Ive recently found a Traps defender to be semi useless. Theyre actually very slow, so when the team is dying around you, you really dont have anything to offer to save the team but to kneel down and try to set another useless trap.
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Energy/Devices blaster. Possibly, Elec/Devices blaster as well.
Worthless team secondary. (Arguably ok for a soloist.)
Energy knockback can be counter productive on a team. as well as paired with devices.
Electric secondary effect of end drain is worthless outside of having energy or elec as a seconday.