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I bid on max level recipies because I refuse to make even negligible compromises on my build for mere cost reasons. I think it would gnaw away at me, "you could have had 0.1% better fire and cold resistance, but NO, you had to grab the recipe from the bargain bin." Yeah, I recognize that's more of a mental disorder than a good buying strategy. But there are probably a lot of people like me out there that have to have the best that's available, no matter how trivial the difference.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
There are several things I can think of that we think cause people to bid primarily on the max level recipes, whatever that max is. One significant reason is that supply tends to be strongest at level maxes because that's what things like Merits and Tickets give you if you are over the level max. Greater supply means more listings/day, which means you'll get it faster.
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As far as advice goes though, yeah, don't buy level 50 recipes when you can buy upper 40 recipes. For that matter, I'm not sure if it's just a perception problem on my part, but it seems like you should also avoid any level divisible by 5, even when it isn't the max for the recipe.
Not applicable to purples of course.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I'm pretty anal about that sort of thing, but in general, I'm not going to notice 2-3% less enhancement. Even when working on something like soft-capping defense, my enhancers are multiplying small-ish base values, so that the loss of a few percent enhancement is usually less than 1 percentage point off my final total.
One does have to pay attention to how much you lose across all 5 or 6 enhancers put in a power. If you lose 3% off of every enhancer, you lose 15% enhancement across 5. Losing 5% across all 5 is more acceptable to me.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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A couple hundred years' worth of immigrants to the United States chuckle warmly at this highly unusual statement. I'm sure other countries can chime in with similar folks.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Most people who are rich are really good at being born into the right family.
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Heck, I'm sitting in an office made possible by a German immigrant who came to the States with close to nothing and worked his way up to the top of his industry over 60 years ago.
Here's what Forbes (courtesy of wikipedia) has to say on the matter, though. A cursory look at the list will show some people indeed got the money the easy way. Everyone else had to work for it...or perhaps do some very clever flipping.
President of the Arbiter Sands fan club. We will never forget.
An Etruscan Snood will nevermore be free
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I have the same mental disorder. Just the thinking that I lost 0.1% of something, makes me go only after highest level of particular set|
Originally Posted by Werner
I bid on max level recipies because I refuse to make even negligible compromises on my build for mere cost reasons. I think it would gnaw away at me, "you could have had 0.1% better fire and cold resistance, but NO, you had to grab the recipe from the bargain bin." Yeah, I recognize that's more of a mental disorder than a good buying strategy. But there are probably a lot of people like me out there that have to have the best that's available, no matter how trivial the difference.
As far as advice goes though, yeah, don't buy level 50 recipes when you can buy upper 40 recipes. For that matter, I'm not sure if it's just a perception problem on my part, but it seems like you should also avoid any level divisible by 5, even when it isn't the max for the recipe. Not applicable to purples of course. |
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Quote:
Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Squez
A couple hundred years' worth of immigrants to the United States chuckle warmly at this highly unusual statement. I'm sure other countries can chime in with similar folks.
Heck, I'm sitting in an office made possible by a German immigrant who came to the States with close to nothing and worked his way up to the top of his industry over 60 years ago. Here's what Forbes (courtesy of wikipedia) has to say on the matter, though. A cursory look at the list will show some people indeed got the money the easy way. Everyone else had to work for it...or perhaps do some very clever flipping. |
I hear people claim that "most rich people were born into money" a lot but it doesn't seem that way when you actually look around at the millionaires you are aware of. The Paris Hilton's of the world appear to be the minority.
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Yes, keep on digging that hole!|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Most people who are rich are really good at being born into the right family.
|
Don't worry, those bystanders loitering around the rim are cheering you on, not pointing and laughing!
Honest!
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| If I don't get many purple drops, maybe my parents are to blame. |
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Don't let me get in the way of your class warfare rhetoric, but this is somewhat of a sore spot for me. I happen to work directly for an extremely wealthy person. We're talking Forbes 400 wealthy, not McMansion wealthy. There are many people, including plenty of politicians, who like to attack the 'evil rich'. Usually they are pretty ignorant folks, or in the case of politicians taking advantage of the ignorant to further their own agenda. |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Most people who are rich are really good at being born into the right family. If I don't get many purple drops, maybe my parents are to blame.
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The person I work for built their own business from the ground up, worked very hard to do so, and along the way gave hundreds, if not thousands of other people jobs. Even 'retired', my boss works harder than I do and rarely sleeps more than a few hours a night. My boss still employs dozens of people. They also pay about 300 times more property tax than I do, living in the same county. One year alone, my boss donated over $70 million to charitable causes. What have YOU done to benefit anyone else lately?
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I'm pretty much the same. I buy Globals at the lowest level possible (even if it means grinding out the merits for them due to low supply), and regular set IOs at the highest possible. The only ones that I don't care about are procs since the IO level doesn't matter.
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Originally Posted by Werner
I bid on max level recipies because I refuse to make even negligible compromises on my build for mere cost reasons. I think it would gnaw away at me, "you could have had 0.1% better fire and cold resistance, but NO, you had to grab the recipe from the bargain bin." Yeah, I recognize that's more of a mental disorder than a good buying strategy. But there are probably a lot of people like me out there that have to have the best that's available, no matter how trivial the difference.
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One of Paris Hilton's ancestors had to actually make their money legitimately, by working with people or being an immigrant. An immigrant working hard, with nothing but his clothes on his back, and a dream. Who then gave his money to his children.|
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
Agreed.
I hear people claim that "most rich people were born into money" a lot but it doesn't seem that way when you actually look around at the millionaires you are aware of. The Paris Hilton's of the world appear to be the minority. |
I'm not even going to go into the "richest people in the world = more of a minority by default" bit.
Not that this discussion has anything to do with the game at all, of course. It was just what this thread was doomed to become.
So the approximate drop rate was 1 per 1500 minions. That's great to know and this is a great post.
Two questions:
1) Is it only minions that drop purps? If not, anyone have a feel for relative drop rates from lieuts and bosses? Seemed like this should be posted somewhere but I couldn't find it.
2) Related to the first question: TopDoc or other experienced purple hunter, could you please give some flavor around the 1500 number? Ie. was that somewhere with minimal bosses like the Cim wall, or more like 8-man filled missions that'd have a full compliment of bosses, or what? I ask because 1500 minions is much different from the approx 1500 minions 700 lieuts and 300 bosses that might be fought in the new 8 person difficulty setting.
Ooh, and yes I am a "serious" player, so this does matter some for me as I run 8-person equiv mishs solo, but part of it is I just like to know 
All ranks that can drop other recipes can drop purples. We believe they are in Pool A. The way the drops work is there's a probability of drop from each rank, and then a probability for the rarity of what you actually get. The 1:2000 or so drop rate was the aggregate rate of getting purples across all three ranks (boss, LT and minion), but mostly minions and LTs. So we have an aggregate value, not a per-rank one.
We know the chances of (any) drop from each rank, and the ratio of rares and uncommons to commons, but not of purples to anything else.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
An LT has twice the chance of a minion, and a boss three times of a recipe drop.
(2.67%, 5.33% and 8%)
AVs have either a 100% chance of a pool A drop or 0% if they are deemed 'farmable'
That increased drop would be reflected in the chance to drop a purple.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
To the OPer. I think one of the first complaints is that this game really didnt used to have time sink material. Atleast not alot of it. Purples as you point out has changed that.
To another complaint, the system that drops them makes them so rare that people who do want to farm, will probably normally get more of them due to killing more enemies. The inherent problem with this system many have is that its rewarding aberent behavior. The devs overall dont care for farming. But the drop rate is SO rare that to really reap the reward, you have to take part in it.
Not just that, but you mentioned that you have to be high lvel to earn them. Not true again. I can SK up my lowbie and work him in a power level and he has the same chance sitting at the door of getting the drop as my main level 50 in the mission. So again a reward for multiple accounts, and a further reward possible for leveling a toon in a way that the devs frown upon.
Trust me i am not complaining over all, there really are not to many instances where i want purple recipies. My doms being my main want for them really. In many cases the buffs they give, though nice, are not what i was wanting to buff for a particular toon. However, it does infact feel that keeping them so fricken rare is really a hurt to the normal player and offers a higher reward for those that are working the system.
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Define "normal player" and "those that are working the system". Last time I checked, I was a player just like you. |
Originally Posted by QuiJon
However, it does infact feel that keeping them so fricken rare is really a hurt to the normal player and offers a higher reward for those that are working the system (emphasis mine).
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If you think there's this huge secret cabal of marketeers out to screw the little guy, you're entirely mistaken.
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I actually wasnt even reffering to the market costs but the mechanic of getting a natural drop. |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
Define "normal player" and "those that are working the system". Last time I checked, I was a player just like you.
If you think there's this huge secret cabal of marketeers out to screw the little guy, you're entirely mistaken. |
And frankly i as well dont know of a way to fix it and keep them rare, im just saying that the ability to earn one goes up depending on how you play. Those that are more prone to farming (and i am not saying i dont farm by any means) will have a higher chance to recieve one. Maybe not mathematicly on the perchance, but killing more things fast, will earn one faster based on getting more chances.
So if 2 players log in for 2 hours each. One runs mission, one farms the same mission over and over. One is geared toward more team play, one has a build set up specificly to farm a certian map or instance, the one that is farming is going to have more of a likely chance that in that same 2 hours they would earn a drop.
Now notice i said "EARN" a drop. I am not saying the drop is not earned, i am simply saying that the reward structure rewards some more often then others, simply off how they choose to spend their time. It would be nice if something could be aranged that equaled that out somewhat. Like a merit purchase for a random purple, or ticket purchase, or even just an equalizer like every so many X recipies if you havent earned a purple you automaticly get a random drop of one on your next recipie.
I dont kill myself for purples, and i certianly dont think the cost of them on the markets is worth it IMO. However I think especially in a game who's no. 1 strenght always was being casual friendly, something should be done to help casual players with rewards. And frankly more drops making it to the market couldnt hurt anyone really. Even those selling the recipies might make less per sale, but the cost of building their toons will go down also as the supply increases.
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Thanks UberGuy (actually for answering 2 of my posts.) This clears up my concerns. I hoped bosses had better purp drop rates, just the way topdoc said it I wanted to be sure.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
All ranks that can drop other recipes can drop purples. We believe they are in Pool A...
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However, after having soloed about 1200 mins, 600 lieuts and 300 bosses today (or 3300 minion equivalents) without a purple recipe to show for it, I'm feeling a little unlucky in my purp drop love
BTW QuiJon: If you have 8+ toons farming a mish set to 8+ character difficulty vs. 1 toon set to 8+ you get the same number of enemies right? If so, the purple drop system post I16 doesn't benefit those who have multiple accounts. It's moved away from that to benefit toons with high power soloing ability.
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Which was kinda my point. Wether i have 2 accounts running or 1, my ability to farm and solo at +8 basicly increases my chances of getting a drop. Further increasing that is finding a mission that solos massive groups that can be dispatched easily. Say like that Nemsis base in the shard in the RWZ mission. Very fast to rinse and repeat.|
Originally Posted by Geoff_NA
BTW QuiJon: If you have 8+ toons farming a mish set to 8+ character difficulty vs. 1 toon set to 8+ you get the same number of enemies right? If so, the purple drop system post I16 doesn't benefit those who have multiple accounts. It's moved away from that to benefit toons with high power soloing ability. |
Where a person with character built for more casual teaming, or atleast that are not going to be handling +8 mobs spawns is going to have a slower time getting drops. Or say someone running TFs will be sharing them more with teams etc etc.
What it does is make a "good way" to earn drops and a "hard way" to earn them. There really should be some system like a strike breaker that awards a drop no matter what at say every 100 recipies. This way it wont increase the probability of a drop, can reset so it wont effect the drops of those that are already earning them fast, but gives something that a casual player can count on without being forced into changing his habits or preffered method of play.
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WRT to purples, those who care to leverage their multiple accounts and adopt an aggressive playstyle so as to significantly increase "opportunities [for purple drops] per hour" do indeed benefit.
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Originally Posted by Geoff_NA
BTW QuiJon: If you have 8+ toons farming a mish set to 8+ character difficulty vs. 1 toon set to 8+ you get the same number of enemies right? If so, the purple drop system post I16 doesn't benefit those who have multiple accounts. It's moved away from that to benefit toons with high power soloing ability.
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Repeat Offenders
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The magical mystical "casual player" doesn't need purples. They don't even need sets. This game is frickin' EASY. Heck, a true "casual player" wouldn't even know what to do with a purple. They'd get significantly better performance from a cookie cutter SO build made by a build expert than they would sprinkling purples willy-nilly into a poorly-conceived build.|
Originally Posted by QuiJon
I think especially in a game who's no. 1 strenght always was being casual friendly, something should be done to help casual players with rewards.
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Purples are one of the rewards for quite a bit more than mere casual play. I'm fine with that. I WANT to have to work HARD for my rewards in my MMOs.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
It may be the headache I have but I cannot decide if I am more tired of Jack Thompson or the "casual player" so henceforth I shall view them as one and the same.
Want to know who the "Casual Player" is? Think of Jack Thompson.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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As has been discussed many times before, the only thing one needs purples for is builds that are, honestly, fairly outrageous. They only apply at 50, so you've cut out a whole lot of "casual" people right there - not only do you have to get to 50, but to get much out of them you have to keep playing an existing 50.|
Originally Posted by QuiJon
This way it wont increase the probability of a drop, can reset so it wont effect the drops of those that are already earning them fast, but gives something that a casual player can count on without being forced into changing his habits or preffered method of play.
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So we're talking about level-50 characters with fairly outrageous builds that have capabilities well above what's needed to play the game very successfully.
How do "casual" players fit in this picture?
In my opinion, the moment they try, they stop being casual, and they have to change however it is they play to account for it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I think the best answer to the 'purple question' is akin to the answer Lord Irvine suggested about the West Lothian Question.
Though I'm quite partial of citing Arkell v. Pressdram (1971) when people feel they should be able to get purples with little or no effort.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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*checks Wikipedia* I'll have to remember that one |
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
I think the best answer to the 'purple question' is akin to the answer Lord Irvine suggested about the West Lothian Question.
Though I'm quite partial of citing Arkell v. Pressdram (1971) when people feel they should be able to get purples with little or no effort. |
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The market is the equalizer. Maybe 1 in 20 of all the purples I've slotted came from drops but as long as I do something that generates marketable rewards, be it tickets, merits, pvp, general hunting, whatever... I can use the market to convert what I get into what I want. It works very smoothly for me, YMMV.
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Originally Posted by QuiJon
Now notice i said "EARN" a drop. I am not saying the drop is not earned, i am simply saying that the reward structure rewards some more often then others, simply off how they choose to spend their time. It would be nice if something could be aranged that equaled that out somewhat. Like a merit purchase for a random purple, or ticket purchase, or even just an equalizer like every so many X recipies if you havent earned a purple you automaticly get a random drop of one on your next recipie.
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This is such a good point, I felt compelled to expand on it.
There are several things I can think of that we think cause people to bid primarily on the max level recipes, whatever that max is. One significant reason is that supply tends to be strongest at level maxes because that's what things like Merits and Tickets give you if you are over the level max. Greater supply means more listings/day, which means you'll get it faster.
As always, patience pays off. Because so many people focus on the max-level recipes, people who actually sell lower-level ones may end up listing them at bargain prices compared to max level just so they'll move. If you wait for a lower-level one to show up, you can often get it at a fraction of the price. Yet if you buy within a few levels of the max you only lose a percentage point or two of enhancement.
Many times now I have gotten, say, a level 50 drop, (usually) crafted and sold it and then bought a level 45-49 version for 20% of what I got for the level 50.
Now certainly level 50 has a lot more action than, say, level 35, so doing what I described down there takes more patience, especially on the Black Market. But the principle still applies.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA