Simple, finished the previous mission, girlfriend called, went afk, came back about 1/2 hr later, logged in and the disguise was gone. I guess I had it in my head that it was 1 hr of use not just 1hr. So this was my fault. If I had the disguise and could have explored the area untouched this thread might not even exist.
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How is this by any definition 'sudden'? If you're running normal content, you have exposure to Hunt missions that have even less information to go on than this. If you're reading the mission dialog it's pretty clear these missions are underground.|
Originally Posted by Noxilicious
It's not so much that this rewards people who love exploring, it that it punishes those who don't. Those missions are normal "go to the door and beat people up" missions, complete with a marker on the map.
The problem is that, up to this point, you're entirely used to finding missions by just walking in a more or less direct line towards the mission marker, and if that doesn't work, you look around the immediate vicinity for a bit until you find the entrance. The tunnels, however, begin at points a fair bit away from the direct line to the marker. If you don't know about the marker, chances are, you might just not find the tunnels. I wasted an hour on this, too. True, once you DO know where the tunnels start, this is not a problem anymore, but it can be really frustrating your first time in Faultline. To reiterate, rewarding explorers is one thing, but punishing those who are not is a whole different thing altogether. If you like exploring, you can get your explorer badges. In fact, Faultline even has its own super secret room for explorer-types to find. It's just that when you have a normal mission, making exploration suddenly necessary when it wasn't before just isn't quite considerate for those that aren't explorer-types, now is it? |
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Investigate excavation sites Briefing We have located the 3 sites where Arachnos believes the PsychoChronoMetron may have come to rest. All three sites are close to the forward Arachnos base, and each site is already being excavated. We may be out of time. I need you to investigate those locations, and if necessary, that base. The PCM might have ended up anywhere during the chaos of the Faultline Incident. It seems too coincidental that it would end up so close to Arachnos. Confidentially, I almost hope that they've fooled us, and this is a ploy to see how much we know. But I don't think that's likely. Concern yourself with investigating those bases, and if necessary, the Arachnos Forward base. Neutralize all Arachnos troops within each dig to disrupt any further excavations, but if it comes to it you'll only need to confirm the presence or absence of the PCM at the forward base. |
I love all the things this game does to make things easier for people but it amounts to handholding, and you cannot blame the game for an occasional lapse that requires you to engage your thinker. If you're going to go so far into hyperbole as to call this punishment, then it might be better to play in the AE where you never have to look hard for the door.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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That's happened to me more often than I've had the disguise available. It's given the mission before the tunnels, which is a pretty long one. Then also it's an hour from when it's given, not an hour of use, so if you take a break or stop playing for the day, it's gone when you get back.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
How on earth did you run out of disguise time before you got this mission?
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I don't fault vinque for losing access to the power. Freaking out because the waypoint is a little unreliable and you're not willing to take a look around the zone is another matter.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Well, now, here I go and get caught up doing exactly what I said I wouldn't (debating). I, personally, don't see exploring=thinking, sorry. If, for example, I were having difficulty beating an EB and had to come up with different strategies to be victorious (something that has already happened multiple times), that, to me, is putting on the ol' thinking cap. Also a mission that has some kind of puzzle (many MMOs have some sort of lever pulling thing for this), sure, a challenge that requires some thought. However, getting a mission that says "find an underground location" and you have to search for such a location is, in my mind, a lazy way to create a "challenge" in the game - to me, it's like calling it a challenge to go from one end of the map to another. I was pretty ticked off when I originally posted (had just been sent to the hospital while searching), so that's my bad, but I stick by my main point that "explorer" missions are crap. It's just my opinion, but I'm clearly not alone.
OP: Just so you are aware, there is a similar location in the game called the Wolf's throat in Striga. You have to defeat a few foes there, and it's actually underground. It's kinda marked on the map, but the waypoint points to the middle of the place, instead of the entrance to it, and the fact that Striga is a hazard zone means the map is totally black, and you'd still have to hunt around a little bit to uncover the map.
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It's long if you kill everything. But since you're given an 80ft stealth toggle that does not suppress when you click a glowie (enough to be invisible to everything in the zone except for turrets), I always stealth that mission unless I'm on a team.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
It's given the mission before the tunnels, which is a pretty long one.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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If you're incredibly frustrated while you're in the game, there are many options there where you can find help within the game, as well. You can try the local server help channel, which reaches every zone and instanced mission on the server, by sending a message like this: "/hc, I'm looking for X. Can anyone tell me how to get there?" You can also join the global help channel (Help), which reaches across all servers.|
Originally Posted by vinque
Trying to find entrance to Clear out first ruin mission in faultline and getting INCREDIBLY frustrated. This is about the third time I'm finding myself trying to find the "needle in a haystack" just to start a mission. I have no clue why gamemakers think this is entertaining. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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For this particular mission string, I did it when it was new and I had no idea how to find it. The map marker was way off the map and into the black section, which I'd only seen before when it was bugged. I opened a help ticket and contacted a GM. The GM was helpful and when I still couldn't figure out what was going on or how to get to the mission, he actually led me there himself.
It doesn't make sense to sit around and get frustrated and angry and then blame the game and the developers before you get help. The developers may have made some challenging missions, but they've also given you many many ways to get help when and where you need it. If you use all the tools they've given you, there's very little in this game worth actual frustration and anger.
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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When I say thinker, I'm not talking about a challenge I'm talking about paying attention to what you're told. Clearly stated and obvious facts that should trigger basic (not advanced) problem solving techniques. In terms of challenges this one is at most a speed bump. If you're not prepared to exert the minimum attention span required, I fail to see how that's the fault of the game in any way shape or form.
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Originally Posted by vinque
Well, now, here I go and get caught up doing exactly what I said I wouldn't (debating). I, personally, don't see exploring=thinking, sorry. If, for example, I were having difficulty beating an EB and had to come up with different strategies to be victorious (something that has already happened multiple times), that, to me, is putting on the ol' thinking cap. Also a mission that has some kind of puzzle (many MMOs have some sort of lever pulling thing for this), sure, a challenge that requires some thought. However, getting a mission that says "find an underground location" and you have to search for such a location is, in my mind, a lazy way to create a "challenge" in the game - to me, it's like calling it a challenge to go from one end of the map to another. I was pretty ticked off when I originally posted (had just been sent to the hospital while searching), so that's my bad, but I stick by my main point that "explorer" missions are crap. It's just my opinion, but I'm clearly not alone.
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
The good news is, AFAIK that is the only mission of that type. You will occasionally run into mission doors that are underground or can only be reached by tunnel (The Throat in Striga Isle is a good example) but for the most part it is obvious from the arrow that when you reach it is it down underneath your feet, and thus you need to look for the tunnel.
Faultline seems to be the only place where the tunnel entrace is WAY apart from the mission door.
Another note, many of the missions take place on the other side of the dam, and you can use the tunnels to get to them, but the passage you used to get to Agent G is the fastest. And since the tunnels are easier to find from the dam side, it might be easier to try getting to that mission from that side.
I remember my SG spending some time trying to find those tunnels, though.
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True. But, as far as I can tell, you're nowhere near being in the majority, either. A lot of people really do like the variety.
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Originally Posted by vinque
but I stick by my main point that "explorer" missions are crap. It's just my opinion, but I'm clearly not alone.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I'm going to have to disagree here, that briefing offers players little insight into what they are actually supposed to look for. The only thing in there that even hints at the possibility of underground terrain is the reference to sites "recently excavated", but by this point in the game most players have undertaken dozens of subterranean missions (troll caves, CoT temples, etc), all of which were probably accessed by a cave door located on the surface of the map right where the waypoint indicated. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
If you're reading the mission dialog it's pretty clear these missions are underground.
That's the mission briefing. It's about as clear as it can be without big orange letters that you're going to look underground. You're not being punished for not being an Explorer type, you're suffering for making the choice to play on autopilot and over relying on "go to waypoint ASAP and go in door" |
Honestly, I'm baffled how anyone could be expected to glean from the briefing that:
1) The mission door is located in a hidden tunnel level underneath the map, and
2) The entrance to the tunnel level is located rather distant to the actual mission door.
The player should figure out the first item as soon as he/she is standing right on top of the door location and notices that the wayfinder is still pointing down. The real problem is #2. Early in the game, there are several locations with multiple levels (Skyway, for instance) where a little searching is required to find the actual door. But this is the first mission most will encounter where the indicated door location doesn't even offer a good point to start looking. I remember the first time I did the Faultline arcs, I zeroed in on the mission location as shown on my map and then began systematically fanning out, scouring a large portion of the terrain before I gave up, thinking I must be doing something wrong or else it was just a bug. As it turned out, I quit just shy of finding the entrance by lift H. I would have kept on had I known I was on the right track, but I really didn't know and I didn't want to comb the whole of Faultline only to find there really was no secret entrance.
Fortunately, I came to this wonderfully helpful board for advice before I reached the point of frustration. But I understand the OP's pain. I think the designers could have done this a bit better. I'm fine with missions that require puzzle solving and exploring, but for many players this is the first mission that really requires much of either, and absolutely nothing is offered in the briefing to indicate that this mission is any different from the hundreds of others that have come before. Don't change the rules without telling the player. A puzzle is much more fun if you know you're trying to solve one.
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The command to 'talk' in the Help Channel has changed. You can only do it with the /hc command.|
Originally Posted by MissInformed
I...sending a message like this: "/help, I'm looking for X. Can anyone tell me how to get there?" You can also join the global help channel (Help), which reaches across all servers.
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/hc I can't find a mission door in Faultline. The waypoint point underground and I don't see any way to get there.
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Funny hard to find mission door story.
I got invited to a team for radio missions. I was in Atlas Park and mission was in Brickstown. I used my Mission Transporter to get there quickly.
When I arrived, the team was milling around and my entrance functioned like it usually does, like you are exiting from the mission into the main zone.
When I turn arround, I see the archway that leads to the ground level door of the Brickstown AE building.
The radio mission door was located at a building that had been replaced by the AE building. There were team members that were looking around for an underground entrance, but they stopped when I announced that I had used Mission Transporter, knowing that always takes you right to door.
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Thanks, I'll edit my post! What a strange thing to change. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The command to 'talk' in the Help Channel has changed. You can only do it with the /hc command.
/hc I can't find a mission door in Faultline. The waypoint point underground and I don't see any way to get there. |
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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I think this is exactly right. When something is differnt from the norm, more explanation is definitely required to get people in the right frame of mind. It's all about expectations and in a game where most things are the "same old, same old," something different needs to alert players that they should expect something different. I'm afraid this isn't something the Devs excel at. The "Stop 50 Fir Bolg" mission is a classic example. The idea is neat and it's something different, but the mission objective is not clearly written and it's very confusing. I've given up counting how many times I've been on teams where someone has said, "But we've already stopped at least 50 - why isn't it over?!?!" That's one of the most frustrating missions in the game and it doesn't need to be. If the mission objectives were more clearly explained, I think people would dislike it far less.|
Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
I'm fine with missions that require puzzle solving and exploring, but for many players this is the first mission that really requires much of either, and absolutely nothing is offered in the briefing to indicate that this mission is any different from the hundreds of others that have come before. Don't change the rules without telling the player. A puzzle is much more fun if you know you're trying to solve one.
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All this mission needs is some direction about needing to "find the hidden entrance to the tunnel system in the Arachnos base..." or something similar. That alone would make this much easier to deal with for most people.
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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Somebody thought that /help or /h should bring up the ingame help faq. Thus access to the help channel became /hc.
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Originally Posted by MissInformed
Thanks, I'll edit my post! What a strange thing to change.
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Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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paragonwiki.com/wiki/Known_issues#Help_Channel_and_Help_Chat_Tab
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Originally Posted by MissInformed
Thanks, I'll edit my post! What a strange thing to change.
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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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Isn't that that mission where you have to stop Fir Bolg patrols from reaching some Stone Henge WHILE ALSO being a Defeat All mission, making it utterly impossible to solo it and a potentially huge pain on large teams because it necessitates team-splitting and therefore dealing with unproportionally large mobs? And to top it, half your team is stuck with the exciting duty of standing bloody guard at one location? Because I doubt even a mission objective written in coherent English can save that piece of crap of a mission. |
Originally Posted by MissInformed
The "Stop 50 Fir Bolg" mission is a classic example. The idea is neat and it's something different, but the mission objective is not clearly written and it's very confusing. I've given up counting how many times I've been on teams where someone has said, "But we've already stopped at least 50 - why isn't it over?!?!" That's one of the most frustrating missions in the game and it doesn't need to be. If the mission objectives were more clearly explained, I think people would dislike it far less.
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Unique is nice and all, but not if it cripples teams and unexpectantly makes soloing impossible. Oh, sure, your contact tells you should get a team together, but I've solo'ed so many down-scaled AVs that at that point I, and I expect many other solo-minded players, dismiss those lines as polite suggestions.
Cliché as it is by that point, making it a timed mission, stating that the ceremony will be complete in X minutes is about the only way to make that mission playable for people who don't bother to put together above average teams to deal with having split up, or people who don't actually like standing guard while others get the action.
It's quite depressing, really. The devs try really hard to make new and unique and exciting things to hook you back to the game, but every so often, they just end up paving paths with their intentions.
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I have done that mission solo before, and on teams where we've gone to the portal, and split up from there, while leaving nobody at the portal. We still succeeded, because we were all keeping an eye on the paths to the portal, and nobody was on boring guard duty. Once you figure out what's going on, it's easy enough to break away from the portal.
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Originally Posted by Noxilicious
Isn't that that mission where you have to stop Fir Bolg patrols from reaching some Stone Henge WHILE ALSO being a Defeat All mission, making it utterly impossible to solo it and a potentially huge pain on large teams because it necessitates team-splitting and therefore dealing with unproportionally large mobs? And to top it, half your team is stuck with the exciting duty of standing bloody guard at one location? Because I doubt even a mission objective written in coherent English can save that piece of crap of a mission.
Unique is nice and all, but not if it cripples teams and unexpectantly makes soloing impossible. Oh, sure, your contact tells you should get a team together, but I've solo'ed so many down-scaled AVs that at that point I, and I expect many other solo-minded players, dismiss those lines as polite suggestions. Cliché as it is by that point, making it a timed mission, stating that the ceremony will be complete in X minutes is about the only way to make that mission playable for people who don't bother to put together above average teams to deal with having split up, or people who don't actually like standing guard while others get the action. It's quite depressing, really. The devs try really hard to make new and unique and exciting things to hook you back to the game, but every so often, they just end up paving paths with their intentions. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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It's not a defeat all, at least it wasn't the times I did it. Just make sure less than 30 Fir Bolg get to the henge.|
Originally Posted by Noxilicious
Isn't that that mission where you have to stop Fir Bolg patrols from reaching some Stone Henge WHILE ALSO being a Defeat All mission, making it utterly impossible to solo it and a potentially huge pain on large teams because it necessitates team-splitting and therefore dealing with unproportionally large mobs? And to top it, half your team is stuck with the exciting duty of standing bloody guard at one location? Because I doubt even a mission objective written in coherent English can save that piece of crap of a mission.
Unique is nice and all, but not if it cripples teams and unexpectantly makes soloing impossible. Oh, sure, your contact tells you should get a team together, but I've solo'ed so many down-scaled AVs that at that point I, and I expect many other solo-minded players, dismiss those lines as polite suggestions. Cliché as it is by that point, making it a timed mission, stating that the ceremony will be complete in X minutes is about the only way to make that mission playable for people who don't bother to put together above average teams to deal with having split up, or people who don't actually like standing guard while others get the action. It's quite depressing, really. The devs try really hard to make new and unique and exciting things to hook you back to the game, but every so often, they just end up paving paths with their intentions. |
I actually enjoyed that mission, because it was very different and required some creative strategy. And while I can see where some players might get confused, I think the mission briefing does give you a pretty good idea what you need to do.
It can be difficult to solo, though, if you don't have any holds. For once, the enemies don't want to fight, just run. First time I soloed that mission I thought my tank could stop them with taunt, but not much luck there. I failed and had to come back later with my ice blaster--much easier with holds and AOE damage and slows. I recall someone on this board boasting that they could solo it with any AT and complete with zero escapes, so I imagine it can be done.
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It's not a defeat all. You just have to defeat enough of the Fir Bolg that they can't complete their mission. This can be done solo either by roaming the area and killing any spawns you see or else guarding the gate. If you choose the roam and kill option you have to be fast as in a scrapper or blaster with no down time. If you guard the gate you have to have some area effect that can slow or damage the groups as a whole. If you don't damage them they will ignore you completely. Also if you stop them too close to the gate they count as escaped even if you manage to defeat them.
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Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
It's not a defeat all, at least it wasn't the times I did it. Just make sure less than 30 Fir Bolg get to the henge.
I actually enjoyed that mission, because it was very different and required some creative strategy. And while I can see where some players might get confused, I think the mission briefing does give you a pretty good idea what you need to do. It can be difficult to solo, though, if you don't have any holds. For once, the enemies don't want to fight, just run. First time I soloed that mission I thought my tank could stop them with taunt, but not much luck there. I failed and had to come back later with my ice blaster--much easier with holds and AOE damage and slows. I recall someone on this board boasting that they could solo it with any AT and complete with zero escapes, so I imagine it can be done. |
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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Does the roam and kill method really help toward the mission objective? I got the impression that the Fir Bolgs standing around the map do not break for the gate--the ones that try to escape spawn periodically much like ambushes. Is this correct? I do know that after you beat the mission, there are still plenty of spawns all over the map. I have tried attacking Fir Bolg on my way to the gate, but not only does this not seem to help reduce the number of escape attempts, but also allows time for a few to escape before I can get there. |
Originally Posted by Mandu
It's not a defeat all. You just have to defeat enough of the Fir Bolg that they can't complete their mission. This can be done solo either by roaming the area and killing any spawns you see or else guarding the gate. If you choose the roam and kill option you have to be fast as in a scrapper or blaster with no down time. If you guard the gate you have to have some area effect that can slow or damage the groups as a whole. If you don't damage them they will ignore you completely. Also if you stop them too close to the gate they count as escaped even if you manage to defeat them.
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And you're right about them getting credit for escaping just for getting close. Many times I've defeated a Fir Bolg a few feet from the gate and it still counted as a loss. Not fair at all!
That's not much of a joke. It doesn't even have an identifiable punch line and it's not funny at all.
That said, I do agree that those tunnels were a stupid place to put mission entrances. I've occasionally had missions that ended up down there at level 15, which is a treat when the tunnels themselves are narrower than random street mobs' aggro radius and the mobs down there are all in the early 20s.
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One of the times I was on this mission, I flew around once and spawned the map, then proceeded to watch groups that I'd spawn periodically take off towards the portal. However, I also watched a group appear out of thin air and run towards the portal. So it seems like there are both ambush-type and static spawns that will trigger. I soloed this once on my grav/storm controller. It was... amusing.
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Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
Does the roam and kill method really help toward the mission objective? I got the impression that the Fir Bolgs standing around the map do not break for the gate--the ones that try to escape spawn periodically much like ambushes. Is this correct? I do know that after you beat the mission, there are still plenty of spawns all over the map. I have tried attacking Fir Bolg on my way to the gate, but not only does this not seem to help reduce the number of escape attempts, but also allows time for a few to escape before I can get there.
And you're right about them getting credit for escaping just for getting close. Many times I've defeated a Fir Bolg a few feet from the gate and it still counted as a loss. Not fair at all! |
Also just as a final note, I wish, if there are more missions like this, that they just don't use the map to "help". I went out the door next to Agent G (because there was a little red arrow under it directing me) and although there might be a way into the tunnels on that side of the dam, many of the guys were red and purple to me and I no longer had the disguise. Anyhow, I did it, it's done, time to move on (thank God).
How on earth did you run out of disguise time before you got this mission?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus