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woooosh.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Gale>Timebomb
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Originally Posted by RonJ73
It's fantastic insanity! A lot of people forget about stacking buffs/debuffs. Defenders, when running solo or as the only 'fender on a team, aren't extremely relevant, usually, but they become massively relevant when you stack a few of the same type together.
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I'm finding this very true with my new Traps/Dark. By pure luck I've been running on teams with 2 (or more) traps defenders. I haven't seen anything like this since the VEATs hit redside. Two trappers with FFG and the average PUG improves significantly. At level 16 the stacking debuffs, and defense is extremely efficient. I don't have Hero Stats (my computer hates it..and wont run it). But I wish I did, so I could see exactly what the numbers are, and by how the teams kill rate bumps up when 2+ trappers join.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Besides the brief time when PGT was a proc mule traps has always been an underrated set IMO. Time bomb really needs to be replaced and it doesn't need to be replaced by anything spectacular just something different. It makes no sense to have the tier 9 being an inferior harder to use copy of the tier 8.
I just noticed in Mids planner that defender Trip Mine takes PBAOE sets but the Mastermind ones in Mids takes Targeted AOE. Is that correct? Neither my Traps MM or my Traps Defender are high enough to actually read what sets the powers take in game.
Thanks,
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
Dear god... on a whim, I went and crunched the numbers that a full team of Trapfenders would have.
Wow. All I can say is, I can't wait to run an STF with that team.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Is it overdoing it if my fender takes FFG and maneuvers and fully slots them for def?
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Traps for MM's is a whole different beast. Some of the slotting options are...different.|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
I just noticed in Mids planner that defender Trip Mine takes PBAOE sets but the Mastermind ones in Mids takes Targeted AOE. Is that correct? Neither my Traps MM or my Traps Defender are high enough to actually read what sets the powers take in game.
Thanks, Lewis |
But different is good so I hope they stay, or get added to the other traps users, but I imagine what will eventually happen. Hopefully it isn't until i29
Traps is really a great set. It is incredible strong on a MM. Defenders getting traps makes me happy because that means at some point TROLLERS! will be getting it.
The full nerf of PGT came after the wedding pack. I imagine it was on the radar but that wedding event the devs saw just how brutal PGT was. The bat fell hard after that event. Nothing puts a mark on a set that hitting devs with its awesome power. The fact that so many traps got together and no one could move due to the puking. The proc happy wasn't that bad, no one being able to move or do anything for a full 5 mins that is a wake up call and a half!!!
Thankfully my Thugs/Traps got make every AV redside puke before that bat hit! To this day nothing makes me giggle more then dropping seekers on the entire FF running in and dropping PGT and watching ALL of them puke!! PRICELESS!!
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IMHO, not at all. At my guess you would put the team near the soft cap of defense..all by yourself (I'm guessing about 25-27%). I'm actually taking the full leadership pool on my trapper. The leadership buffs, plus traps buffs and debuffs, should make for a very team friendly toon.
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Originally Posted by Negate
Is it overdoing it if my fender takes FFG and maneuvers and fully slots them for def?
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My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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Geez, I feel like I'm Herding Kittens! |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Traps for MM's is a whole different beast. Some of the slotting options are...different.
But different is good so I hope they stay, or get added to the other traps users, but I imagine what will eventually happen. Hopefully it isn't until i29 |
Hey I wonder if that name is taken. So, are you saying that YES Mids is correct in both places and that Mastermind Trip Mine takes TargAoE whereas Defednder Trip Mine takes PBAOE (in game)? My trapper trio is only level 16 currently, and my Thugs/Traps is level 32 and my Robot/Traps is level 34. Altitis: There Is No Cure.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Not at all.
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Originally Posted by Negate
Is it overdoing it if my fender takes FFG and maneuvers and fully slots them for def?
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I have found one minor annoying thing about the set; it seems to make mobs run away like crazy, and once they're out of the slows, they'll run halfway across the map. I had to chase Nocturne all over the place last night. I assume the panic is due to a combination of the Afraid effect on the caltrops, the DoT, and the -recharge preventing mobs from queuing attacks.
Of course, it's not all bad, since it supplies part of your mitigation--every fleeing mob is one that's not attacking you. Still, the scattering effect and the fact that the mobs run out of your debuffs isn't ideal, so I try to use the knockback from my AR attacks to toss them back into the trapzone.
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
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Yeah now that you mention it. Either the afraid effect from caltrops last after the patch disappears or mortar has some hidden afraid component.
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Originally Posted by Balanced
I have found one minor annoying thing about the set; it seems to make mobs run away like crazy, and once they're out of the slows, they'll run halfway across the map. I had to chase Nocturne all over the place last night. I assume the panic is due to a combination of the Afraid effect on the caltrops, the DoT, and the -recharge preventing mobs from queuing attacks.
Of course, it's not all bad, since it supplies part of your mitigation--every fleeing mob is one that's not attacking you. Still, the scattering effect and the fact that the mobs run out of your debuffs isn't ideal, so I try to use the knockback from my AR attacks to toss them back into the trapzone. |
Mortar is more of a culprit than caltrops for making mobs run. A lot of -def powers make mobs run in my experience.
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I don't take Gale on my defenders, and my controllers don't have it in the tray by the time hurricane rolls around. . . . and I still agree with this statement |
Originally Posted by JayboH
Gale>Timebomb
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My Characters
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Since that's what I'm doing, I'm obligated to say no.
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Originally Posted by Negate
Is it overdoing it if my fender takes FFG and maneuvers and fully slots them for def?
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Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
a few freinds and I rolled up a S.W.A.T. team
Trick Arrow/Assualt Rifle defender
Traps /Assault Rifle defender
Assault Rifle/ Devices blaster
its a ton of fun and we do very well, that being said the traps do well with the right mindset. the tactics are a refreashing change of pace, we are capped Def and floor resistance, all while useing very little endurance we havent even gotten to Full Auto, oil slick with 3 ignites and flamethrowers
Traps are doing just fine
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Originally Posted by Balanced
I have found one minor annoying thing about the set; it seems to make mobs run away like crazy, and once they're out of the slows, they'll run halfway across the map. I had to chase Nocturne all over the place last night. I assume the panic is due to a combination of the Afraid effect on the caltrops, the DoT, and the -recharge preventing mobs from queuing attacks.
Of course, it's not all bad, since it supplies part of your mitigation--every fleeing mob is one that's not attacking you. Still, the scattering effect and the fact that the mobs run out of your debuffs isn't ideal, so I try to use the knockback from my AR attacks to toss them back into the trapzone. |
I'm finding that not as bad an issue on my Traps/Dark. Tenebrous Tentacles keep everyone in place. But its not perfect. I notice teleporting and flying enemies (I'm looking at you TSOO!) are really a pain for me. But most other mobs I can keep controlled and in debuff patch.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Enjoying my Traps/ defender a lot more than I did my /Traps corruptor. I think it's mostly the defense vs. offense focus. On my defender, spending the first half of a big fight dropping Seeker Drones, Acid Mortar, Poison Gas Trap, Triage Beacon, and Caltrops is about normal. On my corruptor, all of that is 'the stuff I have to get out of the way before I can Full Auto.'
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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I think thats one reason the set works better on a MM then a corruptor as well; when a team hires a defender, they are fine with them spending a big chunk of the fight debuffing and such. Villianside, same with a MM, the pets are blazing away while you cripple the mobs. |
Originally Posted by Kelenar
Enjoying my Traps/ defender a lot more than I did my /Traps corruptor. I think it's mostly the defense vs. offense focus. On my defender, spending the first half of a big fight dropping Seeker Drones, Acid Mortar, Poison Gas Trap, Triage Beacon, and Caltrops is about normal. On my corruptor, all of that is 'the stuff I have to get out of the way before I can Full Auto.'
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With a corruptor, though, other than the relatively new VEATs you are ALSO the main source of AoE damage. So time you spend crippling the mobs cuts into team kill speed much more, and traps has not only significant animations but requires you to run in to use them, but not too fast or you leave FF generator behind and get mezzed in the middle of the spawn.
So I'd say its a better set on a defender, who 1. solo can take their time and play to the set or 2. teamed isn't expected to supply the majority of damage.
And regarding mobs running, from watching the forums and mob behavior over the years as well as dev comments I strongly suspect they have tweaked AI over time to make them run away more often when they are having trouble hitting or are being debuffed. Its fairly noticable (and sometimes fatal) if you are an anchored debuff user. . .
Thanks so much guys for the replies! Heck, what's the defender defense cap? I might pick up Combat Jump while I'm at it! This toon is amazing. I've been waiting for Traps to become a primary since I started playing! This toon is already lvl 17 from only 4 days of playing mainly Frostfire's mish!
I bring so much to the team it's not even funny I haven't had this much fun since I rolled a SOA or WS.
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The hard cap for DEF on Defenders is 175%. Since it's very, Very, VERY unlikely you'll ever hit that solo, you should aim instead for the DEF soft cap, which is, generally, 45%. It can range higher based on your opponent's level and/or buffs, but 45% is a good rule of thumb.|
Originally Posted by Negate
Thanks so much guys for the replies! Heck, what's the defender defense cap?
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Personally, I'm aiming to soft cap my Ranged DEF while still putting in a decent amount of Melee/AoE DEF. That combined with Seekers' -ToHit will make my Defender exceptionally survivable while still maintaining a wide array of debuffs to work with.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
I went from 8 to 22 in one long run with my trapper last night i forgot how much i enjoy the set.
Defender defense cap is the same as everyone else's; 200%, i think? You'll never hit that solo without chewing a bunch of lucks, and due to game mechanics, 200% is just as good as 45% defense.
Most mobs have a 50% chance to hit (that is further modified by it's accuracy multiplier; minions have the least, AVs have the most). No matter what, a mob always has a 5% chance to hit. 45% def brings you to that 5% to-hit floor.
That being said, some extra padding over 45% is useful, because defense debuffs are common, defenders have no defense debuff resistance, and multiple debuffs could lead to your defense being overwhelmed. Build to taste; I am planning on bringing my traps/rad to around 45% to melee/ranged/aoe, and adding in some recharge and end recovery for flavor.
50s:
Grimmloch, Tactically Delicious, Ugly Frankie, Operative Tracker, CryoFurnace, Professional Help, Silver Sphinx, Aries Knight, Tachyon Aegis, Jade Sphinx
Currently building:
Any one of half a dozen alts!
Gnah, I´m so mad I am @ work right now <.<
Had a build for a traps/dark deffer softcapped for melee/AoE/ranged about 47/47/49
Also took Stealth and Maneuvers.
About 35% dmg Buff with Assault and 17% recharge on top of hasten should do.
Gonna post this this evening.
So here its is: My trappers build, it´s not final but a good step ahead
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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|5F60BE112FB2D|
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Was running one of these teams last night, with multiple Traps/ Defenders. On the first mission, somebody asked me if I really expected a level 14 Willpower scrapper to take the alpha.|
Originally Posted by RiverOcean
I'm finding this very true with my new Traps/Dark. By pure luck I've been running on teams with 2 (or more) traps defenders. I haven't seen anything like this since the VEATs hit redside. Two trappers with FFG and the average PUG improves significantly. At level 16 the stacking debuffs, and defense is extremely efficient.
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... so my Defender took the alpha instead. After about a mission, people finally caught on to our defense levels and it sort of became a race to take the alpha strike. About the only time we ever took serious damage was when we ran into masses of +2 Ruin Mages. Earthquake + some lucky hits with Fossilize can drop your defense fast.
It would have been perfect if somebody hadn't commented, "nice heals" to the guy rocking the aura at undamaged blasters about halfway through the third mission.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.