City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Forgive me: Traps

Aquila_NA

By Aquila_NA,
Posted on: 2009-09-15 17:35 in Defenders

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet View Post
My quick take on traps is that it'll be a lot like having a /devices blaster on a team. Maybe one fight in 500 it'll be the perfect thing for the job, the rest of the time, just scrambling to keep up with the team.
Traps > Devices.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent View Post
To be fair, a well aimed Disruption Arrow is handy on Hamidon Raids. Situational, but really nice when the situation comes up.

And, fair disclosure, I'll probably roll Traps/Energy sometime this week.

P.S.: How many Traps can be used while hovering somewhat close to the ground? How many Traps can be used while hovering far off the ground?
I tested this out with a MM /traps:

All of them can be placed while hovering/flying right at ground level, or altitude=0 (hit 'X' until you bump against the ground to be sure) with the hover/flight power on. You don't need to switch the power off.

If you are hovering near the ground, you can place the caltrops, seeker drones and FF generator with the target reticle on the ground.

If you are hovering or flying higher, you need to be in caltrops reticle tossing range or FF generator reticle range to the ground or a non-vertical surface. It will work on building ledges and also on (even steeply) slanted surfaces and other irregular surfaces. (I was actually able to throw caltrops and the FF generator on a slanted gargoyle at the corner of a tall building while flying.)

If you are flying mid-air far from ground or far any other non-vertical platform, you can only throw the seeker drones. Seeker drones are the only trap power that can be given a mid-air target reticle. You can target up or down or any other direction and they will appear and them home towards you and follow you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet View Post
IOs let virtually any build be survivable--if you choose to build that way. This defintiely includes storm.
lol, without you stating what you consider "survivable" to be I guess you're right .

Show me a storm build that is capable of softcapping to everything. My storm def was able to softcap to ranged and that's it without seriously gimping the build.

My storm troller is able to softcap to s/l and ranged (with a kinda gimp build).

Having 21% def to all as a base to work off of and mez protection is huge.

It's ok if you don't think traps defenders are good. You're just wrong.

 

Posted

Oh, they increased the FFG range to 25 feet? Nevermind. The final tier powers are still iffy to me.

EDIT: no, the description lists 20 feet, no? Smallest bubble beyond the aura heal in pain domination?

My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
lol, without you stating what you consider "survivable" to be I guess you're right .

Show me a storm build that is capable of softcapping to everything. My storm def was able to softcap to ranged and that's it without seriously gimping the build.

My storm troller is able to softcap to s/l and ranged (with a kinda gimp build).
Click this DataLink to open the build!

Softcapped to everything? No. Survivable? Absolutely.

 

Posted

The range at which you can summon your FFG is within 20 ft. the bubble itself is 25 ft., according to red tomax.


don't have clicky-making knowhow, but here's the webpage to see for yourself:

http://coh.redtomax.com/data/powers/...s_FF_Generator


i have an ar/traps corr at 50, im considering starting a defender trap...for secondary, leaning to rad or sonic, but hmmmm i don't know yet.

edit: oh neat, it self-clickies.

50s:
Grimmloch, Tactically Delicious, Ugly Frankie, Operative Tracker, CryoFurnace, Professional Help, Silver Sphinx, Aries Knight, Tachyon Aegis, Jade Sphinx
Currently building:
Any one of half a dozen alts!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by perwira View Post
True, but AM's tend to be quite robust and, with haste, will last long enough for a second one to be up before the first one has expired. It's one of the few 'pet' powers that more than one can be up.

There's also a tactical method of extending the life of the AM as the party moves - team teleport, which although useful for an MM may not be as useful for a traps defender.
Acid Mortar will NOT travel with you via Team Teleport. None of the stationary pets will. How do I know? By trying this on my current /Traps MM that has TTP.

Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)

 

Posted

Yeah they changed it so you can't port acid mortar quite a long time ago already. MM thugs/traps is a great set, rivals /dark if you ask me.

Defenders and corrupters? eh... I made a Traps/AR tonight and it was fun, but the whole time I was feeling kinda inferior to most other sets. That will get better with time, I realize. Got up to the FFG before logging off.

My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
Yeah they changed it so you can't port acid mortar quite a long time ago already..
Oops, thanks you two for correcting me, I hadn't realized that had changed, as my current bots/traps MM doesn't have TP.

 

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How will Traps/Sonic compare to Rad/Sonic for AVs? My initial thoughts were positive, but does AM give Rad the edge?

 

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I think the downside of Traps for really dangerous AV fighting would be the need to run in close; a Rad can stand off and use all their debuffs, even AM has a larger range then the trigger radius of Poison Trap I believe. Its also tougher to use on GMs because they tend to run around when you are debuffing them unless you have a tank pinning them pretty well, based on trying to solo a few on my bots/traps MM.

The advantage Traps would have over Rad is the ability to pin (most) AVs with web grenade, my Rad defender has died more than once when an AV decided it didn't like debuffs and went zooming off through enemy spawns. Thats also an indirect damage multiplier, as it allows things like Flame Patches to work more effectively on them. Mezz protection is also very handy, of course, though Accelerate Metabolism goes some way towards making up for this with its halving of duration on enemy mezzes.

I suspect Traps will end up like Cold, very effective with the right build in the right hands, but losing out in the general popularity contest to Rad for end game content just because a Rad almost requires a deliberate effort to build or play badly to not have its debuffs up all the time on hard targets. Thus you are more likely as a team leader to get a "competent enough" one.

That said, I'm leveling a Cold defender right now and would probably start working on a Traps if I didn't already have a Traps MM because I'd rather play on a team where the leader knows the sets well enough to believe my team search description that I'm built for good buffing/debuffing.

 

Posted

I managed to come up with a real good build when I was in closed beta. Basically, you roll a trapper, but then play it like a stalker.

The build revolves around using superspeed and stealth to give you full stealth, running into a mob while the force field generator grabs all the aggro, and dropping trip mines, poison traps, and acid mortars right on the enemy's toes. It worked FANTASTICALLY. And I am sure that with the right IO build I could softcap my defence too.

 

Posted

I will fully admit (as an experienced /Traps MM) that Traps's Tier 9 is less than great. Trip Mine is a nice bonus (as is any damage in a buff/debuff set), but I'd say Traps's greatest strength are in its first 7 powers. MMs and Corruptors have always "had" to take Web Grenade, and I have to wonder if some of those thinking Traps is subpar for Defenders have been skipping Web Grenade because they can? On the surface, the immobilise of Web Grenade makes it seem sub-par, but the -recharge is a real boon - it's 50%, and stackable.

Traps is at its greatest power against single large, hard targets - AVs, GMs, EBs, etc (PGT's Hold being a Choke, and thus unresistable, is a fair aspect of this, along with its nice -regen). But Caltrops, Acid Mortar, PGT and Trip Mine are all real nice for taking out groups - and with Defenders modifiers to defence, FFG is even more a benefit to them, which means they can afford to be up close and personal to deliver the traps.

It might take a while to get blueside teams used to how Traps works ("Why's the Defender right in the middle of everything?!"), but it's a beautiful set, and I can't imagine anything but greatness for it with the larger numbers Defenders will get out of it compared to MMs and Corruptors.

 

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Mr Squid: what you described was exactly the way i played my corruptor trapper. In my case, it was superspeed + stealth proc, but the results were the same. I ran in with or slightly behind the guys on point, and all that defense really helps then.

Alternatively, if i was on point, and i didn't have full stealth yet, it was deploy seekers in spawn, zoom in the moment the mobs looked at the seekers, deploy. worked like a charm.

50s:
Grimmloch, Tactically Delicious, Ugly Frankie, Operative Tracker, CryoFurnace, Professional Help, Silver Sphinx, Aries Knight, Tachyon Aegis, Jade Sphinx
Currently building:
Any one of half a dozen alts!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Squid View Post
The build revolves around using superspeed and stealth to give you full stealth, running into a mob while the force field generator grabs all the aggro, and dropping trip mines, poison traps, and acid mortars right on the enemy's toes. It worked FANTASTICALLY. And I am sure that with the right IO build I could softcap my defence too.
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to use Grant Invis on the FFG? It would still get noticed eventually, but it might give you longer lead time, and it's that much more defense you can buff with.

The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Squid View Post
I managed to come up with a real good build when I was in closed beta. Basically, you roll a trapper, but then play it like a stalker.

The build revolves around using superspeed and stealth to give you full stealth, running into a mob while the force field generator grabs all the aggro, and dropping trip mines, poison traps, and acid mortars right on the enemy's toes. It worked FANTASTICALLY. And I am sure that with the right IO build I could softcap my defence too.
This is a very viable tactic. If you use seekers you can ease up the load that FFgen has to carry as well.

IME it ends up being sort of like Illusion with phantom army for breaking up an alpha, minus the continued presence of them, but you don't need the continued mitigation cause of FFgen and PGT.

 

Posted

I'm still having a hard time deciding on what secondary I want to take. I was originally thinking traps/dark, but does anyone have any suggestions or comments about what to pair it with that will give the most synergy. Hearing that traps is a good AV killer, it makes me think of sonic right away.. I want to solo AV's!

@Ninth Cloud
Justice

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet View Post
Click this DataLink to open the build!

Softcapped to everything? No. Survivable? Absolutely.
Gimped to hell? yes. Sorry but 2.27 end/sec before attacking with no way to recover end? Totally underslotted LS, nado, not even perma freezing rain. This build is practically unplayable without a kin. lol attack 3 times, summon nado, LS and you are needing to rest heh.

What do you do when you get hit by a rikti mez with dominate and it suppressed all your non-IO defense and hurricane and you get steamrolled in seconds?

Exactly like I said, I was able to cap my storm def to ranged only without gimping it. I was able to cap (in mids anyway) a traps def to every position and damage type without gimping it and it has just shy of 500% regen to cover the few hits that do come through.

I love my storm/sonic def, it is a monster and is still powerful post Lightning Storm nerf, but man defender traps is pretty potent.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA View Post
How will Traps/Sonic compare to Rad/Sonic for AVs? My initial thoughts were positive, but does AM give Rad the edge?
Rad/son might be faster vs easy AV's just cause a lot of your time is consumed spamming traps powers vs just clicking AM and the occasional heal, but:
Mez protection
Much stronger -regen
Much higher -res

Makes traps a better set against "harder" AV's and even GM's. Do a search for Silverado and follow the links in his sig to see some of the shenanigans he has gotten into with traps for other AT's.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
This is a very viable tactic. If you use seekers you can ease up the load that FFgen has to carry as well.

IME it ends up being sort of like Illusion with phantom army for breaking up an alpha, minus the continued presence of them, but you don't need the continued mitigation cause of FFgen and PGT.
I usually summon drones placed into the midst of the enemy before rushing in, which will draw the initial aggro instead of the FF, which you'd really rather not get hit. The highly rugged mortar should be next as it aggressively draws aggro and clusters any mob towards it and they'll ignore the FF, then the trap, a mine, and caltrops, all centered in the midst.

One thing I'm not quite sure about is whether caltrops draws any aggro to the caster - it's been my experience that when I toss these into a mob, causing minor damage, sometimes I seem to get noticed even when ss/stealthed.

 

Posted

Ok posi done and got to 23(stamina is so nice for posi). Have stealth io in sprint so i just run up and pgt, jump back, mortar, howl.

Achilles heel procs alot in mortar.
Not that lucky with procs in caltrops yet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by perwira View Post
I usually summon drones placed into the midst of the enemy before rushing in, which will draw the initial aggro instead of the FF, which you'd really rather not get hit. The highly rugged mortar should be next as it aggressively draws aggro and clusters any mob towards it and they'll ignore the FF, then the trap, a mine, and caltrops, all centered in the midst.

One thing I'm not quite sure about is whether caltrops draws any aggro to the caster - it's been my experience that when I toss these into a mob, causing minor damage, sometimes I seem to get noticed even when ss/stealthed.
Ya same I fire them off as I'm on my way into the spawn. You can see how well they work if you summon them just behind most of the spawn, they will literally turn away from you and attack them as you are rushing the group. Very good power, unsung hero.

I think that the reason they have gotten a bad rap is because people will summon them before hand and have them hovering near them. They don't fly fast at all and will usually show up a day and a half too late to the battle if used in that manner. Cast in the spawn on the way in: great power.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRTerror View Post
Ok posi done and got to 23(stamina is so nice for posi). Have stealth io in sprint so i just run up and pgt, jump back, mortar, howl.

Achilles heel procs alot in mortar.
Not that lucky with procs in caltrops yet.
I think I've found slotting damage procs in mortar to be more effective than in trops (if you are choosing between the two). Mortar fires every ~5 sec whereas trops will proc check every 10 sec.

Tough to fit 2 dam procs, achiles and still get the acc/def debuff/ and rech up high.

 

Posted

Yeah was thinking about impeded swiftness+posi in caltrops but might shift some slots and put a damage proc in mortar instead.
Putting a hold proc in seekers when i can and in pgt(low level lockdowns are so rare )

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRTerror View Post
Yeah was thinking about impeded swiftness+posi in caltrops but might shift some slots and put a damage proc in mortar instead.
Putting a hold proc in seekers when i can and in pgt(low level lockdowns are so rare )
While I haven't yet rolled a traps/* defender yet (and believe you me, I will! maybe a dark blast...), I'd like to share traps IO slotting ideas here. As a bots/traps MM without a whole lot to choose from in the bots IO sets, I had the 'luxury' of slotting the /traps side of it, so here are some ideas, with the IO build at level 45:

Acid Mortar: Virtually indestructible, it draws huge amounts of aggro and does a yeoman's job of debuffing. One choice is to slot 5 Analyze Weakness excluding the +tohit proc and substituting Achilles Heel chance for -res proc instead. At level 45, this comes to -84.5% debuff, +70.8% acc, +65.8% recharge (meaning occasionally two can be up at one time, even non-hasted) and +40.5 end reduction. Seriously consider going for effect instead of damage with the Mortar. With a multitude of shots, the -res will kick in sometime during its rounds. Set bonus also gives +11% acc, +3% damage and +10% regen, nice numbers in the right places.

For the drones, I put in a pair of Rope-a-Dopes (acc/stun/rech & acc/rech) for 45.5% acc and 45.6% rech as well as +20.3% stun duration (at level 45). Set bonus of 2 gives another hefty +6% regen.

Poison trap has no accuracy component, so accuracy components of IO sets here can be a waste. But the duo of Lockdown rech/hold and end-red/rech/hold provides for 46.3% hold time and 46.3% recharge time as well as 20.6% end-red (again at level 45). Plus another 3% global damage for the pair.

FFG, simply two generic 45 defense IOs. 10% upped +47.7% to 14.77% global D for everyone nearby. Nice. Very nice.

Caltrops: A pair of Tempered Readiness (E/R/S and A/D/S triplets) for good overall total numbers and +1.5% recovery as a bonus.

Web Grenade: 5 of the 6 Enfeebled Operations, less the range bonus IO. It's fast, it stacks, make it good and use it. There's some good D and a 3.75% recharge time bonus. If you're short of slots or want them elsewhere, you can reduce the slots here.

Of course, your IO slotting will vary, particularly with your secondary power. Still, most defender's secondary power IO's are range attacks without much variation (a targeted AOE, a PBAoE, and some holds and sleeps and whatnot), so the variety of set IO's are found in the traps set. And what's more... traps IO sets are cheap-cheap.

And this still leaves open the whole host of pool powers and associated IO's.

I have to agree to with Frosticus and others. Defender traps/* is serious business.