Discussion: Matt "Positron" Miller on GameSpy
By
Alasdair,
Posted on: 2009-09-03 19:20 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
So, was that a picture of demon summoning? Looked like zombies... or was that a pic showing off i16? :/
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
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I'd be fine with villains getting EPP's, PPP's are pretty **** in comparison.
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Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
This sounds good...but may also be asking a lot.
From what I've seen "different" between the two sides is most often immediately judged to be either "better" or "worse". The players just do that by nature. Seems like the Devs eventually have to throw up their hands and "generic" things. Patron powers can't be changed? Outrage...must be changed to be like the hero version. Villains can get jetpacks at lvl 1? Well now heroes will be able to do that too. Villains get newspaper mishes...you know heroes had to get radios. I see what you are saying, but the Devs really get put into impossible situations. Those ideas you had are good ones....but heroes would have to get a version of it too or there would be much teeth gnashing. |
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It seems like an issue of gameplay culture and thought process. Many are only focused on "getting dat XP" so XP debt, as minor and harmless as it is, would seem like a huge detriment to some people. Personally, I'd prefer XP debt over losing hard earned loot but I can (unfortuantely) see where they are coming from.
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Originally Posted by Olantern
I don't know what he was thinking, either, but this is the one comment I hear from every single person I've spoken with who tried CoH/V and didn't like it- "The penalties for dying are way too high, and leveling is way too slow." When one of them compared the penalties for dying unfavorably with World of Warcraft, I asked him was so bad about dying in CoX. He said that debt was too harsh a penalty; having to replace equipment and run to your corpse was "much lighter."
I didn't really have a response to that. |
Yeah...I've said it before but I'm really, really, really hoping for a whole lot of new mission maps/tilesets (as well as content) in GR. If there isn't a whole lot of new tilesets...they could have thousands of new missions but...they'd be done in the same ol' tilesets...so "everyone" would know where to go/etc...
For me, I just want new tilesets/maps/content and new powersets....
Oh and more free char. slots per server 
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
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Originally Posted by Chuckers
What you've described as your vision of new content is just about what they have included in in issue updates. If they are producing a paid expansion, I trust them to make it more than an issues worth of content. If they were to charge us for the amount of content of an issue, I think there would be hell to pay from the customer base.
I believe this is going to be a release that's at least the size of Villains. |
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
given that gr is a paid boxed expansion, i would find this highly unlikely.
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We have it on good authority that Praetoria will be several zones, and that there will be at least two new powersets. Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be a new AT as well, but I obviously have no factual information to back this up.
I will be assuming very little, and hoping for the best. I will be in the second wave of beta as a Loyalty Program person (unless something crazy happens)... so I will suspend judgment until then.
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This is the first I've heard about a newspaper-like system or that recurring characters will feature into our character's journey. That sounds cool!
| Players will embark on clearly marked missions that will alter their character alignment along the moral compass. They'll play out similarly to how newspaper and police scanner missions currently work, though they won't be as "mad libby" as those, more tied to the decisions that players make. These missions will have recurring characters and enemies that will feature largely into the story that players build around their new role. These central story characters will be going along their own progression path, changing sides with the player. |
any news about gameplay? or it will be the same boring repetitive stuff with new mobs...
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I swam there. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I remember when CoV first came out one of the brokers was located in part of Port Oakes that was extremely hazardous to get to simply so you could get the paper contact. The twisty turny streets of Mercy Island, full of dead ends, was a pain to navigate. It was so very much not like CoH Atlas/Galaxy/King's Row that it really did feel like a different game.
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I will not rest until we have in-game throwable pies!
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What are you and JazMan expecting? Honestly? I simply don't understand the question. In my experience, every single MMO suffers from what you are complaining about in CoH once the "new game smell" wears off. Once you get used to the mechanics, every game will become "the same boring, repetitive stuff with new mobs."|
Originally Posted by MageX
any news about gameplay? or it will be the same boring repetitive stuff with new mobs...
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In Going Rogue, we will get missions from Contacts. These missions will consist of going someplace, beating things up, finding objectives, talking to other contacts, and maybe crafting something.
This is the standard MMO model. Even WoW, with eleventy billion players, is mostly talk to contact, go somewhere, kill stuff, find stuff and make stuff.
Has Champions Online revolutionized MMO gameplay? or Aion? You still get missions from contacts (granted, CO has civilians who will randomly approach you and give you missions, which I wouldn't mind seeing here in CoH), who still send you to some place, where you collect stuff or beat stuff up.
Do you expect some kid with dark glasses and a white cane to spontaneously approach you in your Supergroup base and challenge you to a minigame of pinball (which you should lose 99 times out of 100)?
"I want new gameplay mechanics" is incredibly vague. What do you want? What do you think the Devs can deliver?
For the record, while I recognize the repetitive nature of MMO gaming, the fact that we can truly make our characters ours in powersets, slotting and appearance, has made it much easier for me to play each character as a star of their own comic book, keeping me entertained. I can't say this about any other MMO I have tried. Now that Dungeons and Dragons Online is going free to play (+ microtransactions), I might give that a whirl as a long time (30 years) D&D player and DM.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
The three things I liked about the snippets
1) Missions push you along the way, it takes some time/effort and chocies to make the switch
2) The Protagonists are in some of the missions as recurring characters, and are moving with/against the player
3) It is reversible if you so choose (I have one character concspt who will be 'perma-grey' as well as a few who will switch sides)
One thing I would like answered in future interviews
4) Is side switching level gated for existing characters (new characters can start in Preatoria and presumably choose sides early). What about existing folks ?
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Given the trend toward more accessibility (e.g Supersidekick) I'd be surprised if it was level gated at all. At the very least I'd expect it not to be gated higher than maybe 10 or 15.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
4) Is side switching level gated for existing characters (new characters can start in Preatoria and presumably choose sides early). What about existing folks ? |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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From what I've read, you can start in Praetoria and play there for a while if you like. As I said earlier, there is at least one zone for certain, and likely to be several. But I think what we'll see is a continuation of the trend from too many large hero zones, to a few medium-sized villain zones, to a small number of smaller zones (RWZ isn't all that small, but the central portion is essentially empty; Cimerora and Ouroboros are both tiny).|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
The three things I liked about the snippets
1) Missions push you along the way, it takes some time/effort and chocies to make the switch 2) The Protagonists are in some of the missions as recurring characters, and are moving with/against the player 3) It is reversible if you so choose (I have one character concspt who will be 'perma-grey' as well as a few who will switch sides) One thing I would like answered in future interviews 4) Is side switching level gated for existing characters (new characters can start in Praetoria and presumably choose sides early). What about existing folks ? |
Neither side-switching nor access to Praetoria is level gated.
While in Praetoria you can run an arc that will open access to either the red or blue side. You can run these arcs as often as you like, switching from blue to red, red to blue, as the mood strikes. You will always have access to Praetoria (assuming you have purchased the expansion, of course). I assume the switching content is only an arc long, as it would be exceedingly tedious to have to run several characters through the same content, and players would object if they had to run a multi-arc length story just to switch sides. So when the devs speak of "making choices," I think each mission in the arc represents another choice, another step toward going rogue. We'll probably see a 5 mission arc in which each mission represents a choice taken by the player's character.
I think the majority of the new content is dealing with the Praetorian factions, and I suspect the two featured NPCs are the central figures of two series of arcs. There may or may not be arcs that do not feature these two characters.
One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that there should also be some new content possibly unrelated to Praetoria, like a space station (another small zone, heh), and also a new system for upgrading powers after 50.
I feel that the game needs an option for having a "single-server" with multiple instances environment. I've felt this way for a looOOOOooonng time (way before Emmert took all our suggestions and created most of CO). Given the current state of the game, I think this would go a long way to improving the building of a team. While PvP still seems to be borked, this would help to improve the PvP population.
City of Heroes and City of Villains remain two separate games...which was a MAJOR mistake from the get-go. Somehow, the two different worlds should be merged and made more visible to each other.
The continued powerset proliferation coupled with customization is a major success for the game.
AE is a great idea...but (retrospectively speaking) I think was implemented incorrectly. I'm not sure why those missions should provide any more reward than regular missions. Additionally, when the missions there become officially 'blessed' by the Devs, they ought to be accessible through contacts in the city.
One of the biggest problems I see currently for us old timers is the "stale" appearance of the game. If I say to you, "Peregrine Island, Circle of Thorns, Office Building," you understand instantly what you can expect from the content. I think a miracle remedy for this (not one easily reached) is to improve on the idea of AE and give players the tools to create maps---indoor and outdoor maps. New places to explore---and from which to be surprised by the enemy/content creations of said players.
I played Warhammer Online for a bit last year and discovered that they had perfectly created a PvP combat, instanced-scenario from which players could get awards. It boils down to (in description) variations of capture (and maintain) the flag. While I won't get into full detail here, I continue to hope that the Devs could implement the same programming here---where villains que up for a bank robbery mission for instance and heroes que up to defend the bank / defeat the villains (or die trying sort of thing).
My best to the Devs and game's players who continue to believe in, support, and foster this game's growth.
~ Jonathan
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The the main bit of new info for us.|
Originally Posted by Haggard4Life
This is the first I've heard about a newspaper-like system or that recurring characters will feature into our character's journey. That sounds cool!
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Does that mean they're more one-off missions rather than arcs that will help you choose sides?
If they sue the same idea of having three missions to choose from each time, like the radio does, then that could fit in with the good/bad/neutral pattern.
Maybe more extreme missions open up as you begin to choose you path - like at first you'd get a choice of 3 missions - neutral, slightly bad and slightly good, but as you became more evil or more heroic, you'd be offered more obviously good or evil missions?
Also, if it's like the radio, I wonder what sort of contact system there'll be in Praetoria to give you access to the missions?
If the new low level content for neutral players takes place in Praetoria, then that could have normal mission arcs, if neutrals were regarded as non-threatening by Tyrant, so they'd be able to go about freely like we do in Paragon City and the Rogue Isles, but Heroes and Villains in Praetoria would have to keep out of sight more, so that might be what the radio style missions would be, as it might be too dangerous to openly go around visiting contacts - they might call you instead with seemingly one-off missions that would in fact lead you to chnage sides or stay loyal.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
--More villain zones
--New powersets
--New contacts and In-game content
--New Mechanics
--New temp power recipies
So far all we know is that GR has two powersets and an unknown number of zones. I thought that Des and Mal would be contacts but are they ingame directors that direct how evil or good your missions get? They might be guided moral tourguides?!
We meet them as a villain/Hero and change with them, then I would guess that we then go to our opposite guide and do the opposite?! I think this is going to be a ping pong game.
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
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I'm with you here. My guess is that there will be a sliding scale (for easy of thought, a 100 point scale with Hero on one Side and Villain on the other). You'll be offered Newspaper/Radio-like missions that slowly change your alignment by a few points and after doing several offered a mayhem/safeguard like mission that shifts alignment a great deal more. When the "meter" swings past the 50% mark, you lose access to the other side and can only go into your new turf.|
Originally Posted by PunchinJudy
As cool as that would be, and maybe I'm wrong here, but I'd be surprised if this is the case. I'd suspect during your rogue/vigilante transition period you'll still be limited to the zones of your original faction and Praetoria. Once the transition is complete you will then have access to the zones of your new faction, losing access to the zones of your original faction.
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If they allowed "neutrals" access to both sides, there would be little or no reason to ever not be a neutral since the game isn't set up to not allow you access to some things but access others on a side (outside of level-locked zones) and I doubt they're willing to go back and alter the accesses on every zone, every store, every contact, every mission to impliment such a plan.
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Actually heroes would not have to get a version of villainous things which make villain players stand out as villains.|
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
I see what you are saying, but the Devs really get put into impossible situations. Those ideas you had are good ones....but heroes would have to get a version of it too or there would be much teeth gnashing.
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The entire bulk of the game is setup for heroes to save the day and be counted as stalwarts of freedom and justice. There is nothing in the game that gives the equivalent(or acceptable alternative) for villains. That's the fundamental problem with being one. Apart from the powersets(and proliferation is dissolving that barrier), there is no inherent differentiating feature that measures, enhances or highlights your choice to oppose the forces of good.
That is probably what contributes to people not liking redside. Not only do they get the unheroic feeling of being second-class villains...but they can't truly revel in their evil choices. And by that I don't mean ultra-sadistic graphic evil. But having one side offer you something that the other doesn't is very important if you're going to have two opposing factions and one is the late-comer.
With GR, do you think people are more likely to want to move red to blue, or blue to red? My money is on a mass exodus of red to blue, because red side receives so little attention and content upgrades, that its become somewhat self-defeating.
If GR doesn't do something to enhance the redside play, then I suspect that only us true stalwart red players will remain. And redside truly WILL become a ghost town.
I'll end my rant here.
I don't think I can tolerate mittens any longer.
My only concern - and I hope that this is something that gets addressed in Beta - is making sure that as our characters are redeemed or fall from grace, they don't seem to do so in the shadow of Desdemona or Maelstrom. That is, I would really rather see the NPCs following our lead, not us being given the option of following the NPC's lead.
I'm sure this is what they have in mind, but the wording in the interview was just ambiguous enough to make me worried.
Don't get me wrong, if there's a rear end my brute would follow out of the Rogue Isles, it'd probably be Desi's... but that's not how I envisioned his redemption playing out. 
Plus, it'd be way more fun for characters that fall from grace to drag somebody down with them...
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
An expansion largely built around being able to change my morality and tossing in a new story line doesn't matter much to me. The two new AT's sounds interesting, but I'll withhold judgement on that. If they are just different versions of a MM and blaster -- variations on a theme, then meh again. To me the news in the article is the fact that there is nothing new beyond what we already know. I was expecting a graphics upgrade to the engine. Better yet I was hoping they'd add some dramaticley new and interesting tasks to complete missions besides the monotonous killing baddies, clicking glowies, and escorting. Or new mission dynamics completely. Those would be big changes which if they were part of the expansion they would be marketing. Disappointed so far.
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Hate to further disappoint you, but Dual Pistols and Demon summoning are powersets...not new ATs. So one will be for masterminds and the other will got to blasters, corruptors, defenders is what I'm thinking.|
Originally Posted by EarthFury
An expansion largely built around being able to change my morality and tossing in a new story line doesn't matter much to me. The two new AT's sounds interesting, but I'll withhold judgement on that. If they are just different versions of a MM and blaster -- variations on a theme, then meh again. To me the news in the article is the fact that there is nothing new beyond what we already know. I was expecting a graphics upgrade to the engine. Better yet I was hoping they'd add some dramaticley new and interesting tasks to complete missions besides the monotonous killing baddies, clicking glowies, and escorting. Or new mission dynamics completely. Those would be big changes which if they were part of the expansion they would be marketing. Disappointed so far.
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One additional thing to note is that Champions is live now...so they have no real reason to keep holding back info on the expansion. It really is past time to let people get a better feel for what's coming. These snippets that don't tell us anything new aren't really helping much on the publicity front. And if this game needs one thing, its more exposure. It's terribly under advertised.
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"More exposure" is not "giving more info about upcoming features to people who are already fans". It's "putting the same basic info in various places where people who aren't following the game closely are more likely to stumble on it".
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Originally Posted by Slashman
These snippets that don't tell us anything new aren't really helping much on the publicity front. And if this game needs one thing, its more exposure. It's terribly under advertised.
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Character index
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Unless they weren't basing their press release times one Champions in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Slashman
One additional thing to note is that Champions is live now...so they have no real reason to keep holding back info on the expansion.
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"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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I think there'll be equal movement in both directions - I've seen quite a few people saying they want an evil Warshade, for example. |
Originally Posted by Slashman
Actually heroes would not have to get a version of villainous things which make villain players stand out as villains.
The entire bulk of the game is setup for heroes to save the day and be counted as stalwarts of freedom and justice. There is nothing in the game that gives the equivalent(or acceptable alternative) for villains. That's the fundamental problem with being one. Apart from the powersets(and proliferation is dissolving that barrier), there is no inherent differentiating feature that measures, enhances or highlights your choice to oppose the forces of good. That is probably what contributes to people not liking redside. Not only do they get the unheroic feeling of being second-class villains...but they can't truly revel in their evil choices. And by that I don't mean ultra-sadistic graphic evil. But having one side offer you something that the other doesn't is very important if you're going to have two opposing factions and one is the late-comer. With GR, do you think people are more likely to want to move red to blue, or blue to red? My money is on a mass exodus of red to blue, because red side receives so little attention and content upgrades, that its become somewhat self-defeating. If GR doesn't do something to enhance the redside play, then I suspect that only us true stalwart red players will remain. And redside truly WILL become a ghost town. I'll end my rant here. |
Also, there are other challenges to try, like doing all-Villain AT runs of the STF, and all-hero AT runs of the LRSF
EDIT: I wonder if they'll change the costume rules for VEATs who switch sides? Or will redeemed SoA just have to remember not to use their Arachnos costume slot, in case it makes people suspicious?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I think it is worth remembering that City of Villains not only gave us a series of beautifully-realised new zones, storylines and enemy groups, but also five new archetypes.
This would have been a huge undertaking just for balancing alone, not to mention integrating the mechanics.
Going Rogue has no new archetypes (as far as we know.) This leaves the door wide open for plot-based content and I for one think this expansion will be very satisfying in that respect.
I'm really looking forward to it. ^_^