Useless article is useless.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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In his own way of putting it, he is correct. We have a whole generation of players out there who do not know how powers work and how teammate's powers work. I have personally had people quit AE Teams due to "lack of XP" (meaning it was not a boss XP mission with max XP). I had a person tell me that he was going to give me 3 Stars for a Arc I wrote, all due to "I only give 5 stars when the XP is maximum". I asked what about the story, time spent on custom toons, time spent on their choice of powers... and got a "Screw That".
There are ways to identify exploit missions and I know the Devs have the tools.
First, identify guys who level far too fast - that cheapens 50s and active players. Perhaps a maximum of levels a person can obtain per day - except on double XP weekends.
Second, look for guys who suddenly aquire massive Influence and Infamy. So many buy Infamy and Influence now it ruins prices and exploits SG ratings. Ever notice the sloppy bidding? The excessive prices paid for items? Surely a SG that suddenly goes to the top 10 sets off alarm bells. It is like the guy said who told me the story "I did the math, to do what they are doing would take 100 guys logged in 24 hours a day grinding boss farms". I have direct first hand knowledge of a SG who purchased their way to the top by conversion. I would hate to be the bearer of that credit card bill!!! WoW does it, they look for massive Gold purchases and sudden changes in player money values.
Third, I LOVE AE, I have a chance to make missions, use creative talent, however people like this ruin it for all. Allow AE to everyone. IF a person makes a mission only designed for exploit, give a warning, if they keep it up, remove the power for X period. They have tools to identify such missions and if banned it can be challenged. I know, for some reason my first mission was banned at the start of the new issue. After a month of indignant emails from myself, a supervisor went in and actually played my mission... it prompted a sorry from CoH. So, don't tell me that all boss missions, guys who go 50 in days, cannot be identified.
Even if this gets flamed, the point is, should this type of actions continue? Do we need this kind of player? They are not loyal, they are not interested in the art of the game, they get bored easily and go on anyway. We need to stop the gold farmers, despite the fact that I believe in free enterprise. Before they were just a small pain, today they enable exploiters beyond even what I could have imagined 2 years ago. We need to halt guys who make 50 in less than 24 hours. We need to allow good designers freedom and exploitive designers need a slap on the wrist.
I am Airman America... Super Hero... and I approve this message!
You know, whether the article is interesting or not, just plopping into the boards doesn't seem to serve much purpose. I really wish people would use their own words a little more. What am I looking at? Why am I looking at it? Why did you feel it was worth posting about? I mean the 'net is full of these articles, why is this one special?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Or, the devs could do the decent thing and fix the PROBLEMS, instead of simply slapping a bandaid on the problem and proclaiming they're done. And the devs are fixing the problem- the changes in i16 will kill basically all the current farms, and greatly lower the value of a few other styles, likely putting the best farms back to being the old style, pre-AE farms (which really weren't that far off from what a good team could do just grinding missions).
Someone else may find another loop hole in AE, but it'll be fixed- and that's much better than messing with the entire system just to fix a trivial problem.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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did i cause i could? free boards last time i checked and it looked intersting to me
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You know, whether the article is interesting or not, just plopping into the boards doesn't seem to serve much purpose. I really wish people would use their own words a little more. What am I looking at? Why am I looking at it? Why did you feel it was worth posting about? I mean the 'net is full of these articles, why is this one special?
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well ppl dont need AE anymore due to the Team sizer they can run normal demon farms/BM farms in PI
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Or, the devs could do the decent thing and fix the PROBLEMS, instead of simply slapping a bandaid on the problem and proclaiming they're done. And the devs are fixing the problem- the changes in i16 will kill basically all the current farms, and greatly lower the value of a few other styles, likely putting the best farms back to being the old style, pre-AE farms (which really weren't that far off from what a good team could do just grinding missions).
Someone else may find another loop hole in AE, but it'll be fixed- and that's much better than messing with the entire system just to fix a trivial problem. |
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BM/Demon farms aren't close to being the outliers that boss farms, lvl 54s, meow, bubble, etc were. Farming isn't an issue. PLing isn't an issue. The issue is when farming/PLing deviates too far from the rest of the game.
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Originally Posted by Blpup
well ppl dont need AE anymore due to the Team sizer they can run normal demon farms/BM farms in PI
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Care to take part in discussing it, then? What did you find interesting about it?
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Originally Posted by Blpup
did i cause i could? free boards last time i checked and it looked intersting to me
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Correct. Doing a tough farm, testing your talent and resolve is not an issue. Doing the same mission over and over because you like it is not an issue. Grabbing some guys that are low and giving them a break is not an issue. What is an issue is guys who get to 50 in a day, have no interest in the game actually, drive prices through the roof with purchased Influence and break the game.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
BM/Demon farms aren't close to being the outliers that boss farms, lvl 54s, meow, bubble, etc were. Farming isn't an issue. PLing isn't an issue. The issue is when farming/PLing deviates too far from the rest of the game.
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IF there was a maximum of levels you could earn in a given calendar day. If there was an alarm (like WoW has) about sudden massive changes in spending and cash reserves. If there was a way to identify missions used over and over for exploit we may have a solution. It would not stop players from fun, just those that ruin fun with attitudes like "screw you... I got mine!"
I am Airman America... Super Hero... and I approve this message!
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Cause most of it was true they did tell players they would get a ban for lvling to fast but still i hear ppl saying i got to 50 or so in like 2 days. and CoH knows they cant get rid of AE cause its one of there prime features so its nerf/nerf/nerf until its used like they intended
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Care to take part in discussing it, then? What did you find interesting about it?
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Good news! There is. The devs already know what you're playing and how much. And if only a few people are using that particular exploit, it's generally not a big deal and can be fixed in due time (generally, hopefully before it gets rampant).|
Originally Posted by Airman_America
If there was a way to identify missions used over and over for exploit we may have a solution.
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We don't need draconian systems (such as leveling caps) that only mask the real issues.
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Originally Posted by Blpup
Cause most of it was true they did tell players they would get a ban for lvling to fast but still i hear ppl saying i got to 50 or so in like 2 days. and CoH knows they cant get rid of AE cause its one of there prime features so its nerf/nerf/nerf until its used like they intended
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Originally Posted by Blpup
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| May 12, 2009 |
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First hand knowledge. The exchange rate from inf to prestige is so atrocious that someone would spend way too much money buying inf for it to be worth it. Shennanigans there. As far as cheapening your 50's, Until you have at least 1 dozen 50's, you are an inferior player. So someone 3 starred your mission. It is a beauty contest. If I think your arc is crap I will mark it as such, that is not griefing. I would tend to 1 star any arc with custom enemies after I16 comes out. That is my choice. Rating is strictly whether I liked it or not. This isnt the olympics with a judging sheet and required elements.
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Originally Posted by Airman_America
In his own way of putting it, he is correct. We have a whole generation of players out there who do not know how powers work and how teammate's powers work. I have personally had people quit AE Teams due to "lack of XP" (meaning it was not a boss XP mission with max XP). I had a person tell me that he was going to give me 3 Stars for a Arc I wrote, all due to "I only give 5 stars when the XP is maximum". I asked what about the story, time spent on custom toons, time spent on their choice of powers... and got a "Screw That".
There are ways to identify exploit missions and I know the Devs have the tools. First, identify guys who level far too fast - that cheapens 50s and active players. Perhaps a maximum of levels a person can obtain per day - except on double XP weekends. Second, look for guys who suddenly aquire massive Influence and Infamy. So many buy Infamy and Influence now it ruins prices and exploits SG ratings. Ever notice the sloppy bidding? The excessive prices paid for items? Surely a SG that suddenly goes to the top 10 sets off alarm bells. It is like the guy said who told me the story "I did the math, to do what they are doing would take 100 guys logged in 24 hours a day grinding boss farms". I have direct first hand knowledge of a SG who purchased their way to the top by conversion. I would hate to be the bearer of that credit card bill!!! WoW does it, they look for massive Gold purchases and sudden changes in player money values. Third, I LOVE AE, I have a chance to make missions, use creative talent, however people like this ruin it for all. Allow AE to everyone. IF a person makes a mission only designed for exploit, give a warning, if they keep it up, remove the power for X period. They have tools to identify such missions and if banned it can be challenged. I know, for some reason my first mission was banned at the start of the new issue. After a month of indignant emails from myself, a supervisor went in and actually played my mission... it prompted a sorry from CoH. So, don't tell me that all boss missions, guys who go 50 in days, cannot be identified. Even if this gets flamed, the point is, should this type of actions continue? Do we need this kind of player? They are not loyal, they are not interested in the art of the game, they get bored easily and go on anyway. We need to stop the gold farmers, despite the fact that I believe in free enterprise. Before they were just a small pain, today they enable exploiters beyond even what I could have imagined 2 years ago. We need to halt guys who make 50 in less than 24 hours. We need to allow good designers freedom and exploitive designers need a slap on the wrist. |
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
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Random punctuation is random.|
Originally Posted by Blpup
Cause most of it was true they did tell players they would get a ban for lvling to fast but still i hear ppl saying i got to 50 or so in like 2 days. and CoH knows they cant get rid of AE cause its one of there prime features so its nerf/nerf/nerf until its used like they intended
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For the most part the "nerfing" that has occurred in AE is a good thing. People will continue creating simplistic missions with mission text that makes smacking your face into the keyboard look like Shakespeare and are intended to maximize the reward for the effort, but by reducing the rewards for mission designs that minimize risk the Devs allow content to be more balanced.
Want to design a mission that features a single enemy type that you have an advantage against? Go right ahead, but the rewards will be less than fighting a varied and challenging group of enemies.
Nerf/nerf/nerf is the logical response to exploit/exploit/exploit; the real challenge is minimizing the impact of the nerfs on non-exploiting content. i think the current changes on test are doing a fairly good job of addressing this, but some tweaking is still needed.
The article itself was a bit superficial and largely irrelevant to the game, but the comments range from insightful, to clueless, to inciteful.
...Is everyone really sure they want Blpup to write more? Really? The short bursts of sentence-like strings of mostly words are slightly difficult to parse. Posts containing full-on paragraphs (or large blocks of word-like text, whatever) would almost certainly be a painful experience to actually read.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Blpup, no offense dude, but it's okay, and in fact expected to be a little more verbose on the forums than you are in-game.
Of course, I have the opposite problem, and anyone frequenting Justice For All in off hours will know of both, but still.
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Tell me about it. More often than not, my urge to offer insightful commentary (haha, as if!) on the situation overrides my survival instinct and I will talk in the face of an EB bashing my face.|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Blpup, no offense dude, but it's okay, and in fact expected to be a little more verbose on the forums than you are in-game.
Of course, I have the opposite problem, and anyone frequenting Justice For All in off hours will know of both, but still. |
MY WORDS SHALL BE HEARD AND I WILL NOT LET ENEMY GROUPS SILENCE ME!
Funny thread is funny
Overused meme is Overused
Fun tags are fun
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on several points.
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People are unlikely to be buying inf on the grey market then converting it to prestige if they're farmers or power-levelers. They're getting it so they can kit out their characters with the fanciest shiny stuff, so they can keep farming to get more shiny stuff, etc, etc, ad nauseum. The sheer ungodly number of in-game spam emails that I have to clear out every time I log in is proof that the grey market influence/infamy business is alive and well, no matter how we and the devs might wish otherwise.|
Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA
First hand knowledge. The exchange rate from inf to prestige is so atrocious that someone would spend way too much money buying inf for it to be worth it.
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Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA
As far as cheapening your 50's, Until you have at least 1 dozen 50's, you are an inferior player.
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Ask any of my teammates in the GA if I'm an inferior player, and you'll get laughed at. Quantity of levels does not equate to quality of play.
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Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA
So someone 3 starred your mission. It is a beauty contest. If I think your arc is crap I will mark it as such, that is not griefing. I would tend to 1 star any arc with custom enemies after I16 comes out. That is my choice. Rating is strictly whether I liked it or not. This isnt the olympics with a judging sheet and required elements.
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That said, rating an arc only 1 star because it's got custom enemies after the devs make changes to bring said custom critters' rewards back in line with the rest of Reality, in my opinion, is rather petty, and indicates your true colors, sir.
Did the devs make some errors when the MA first went live? Yes. However, I applaud them for trying to correct those mistakes without either resorting to slapdown tactics or otherwise crippling the tools to the point where they're useless.
Farmers will farm. This is a fact of life. I've seen it in CoX, I've seen it in WoW, EVE Online, and a couple of other games. However, the purpose of the Mission Architect was not to provide Old MacDonald a convenient place to stand around, annoy other players, waggle his e-peen about, and generally exploit the system.
The MA's purpose, as stated by the devs when it first was announced, was to allow players to tell their own stories. It was meant to expand and enrich the content available to the CoX community which from my lengthy perspective, had gotten somewhat jaded from years of Skulls, Hellions, Crey, Council, and rescuing the thrice-damned Jewel of Hera over and over again.
Will there be arcs that aren't worth more than one or two stars? Yes. Not everyone is of a creative mindset, and sometimes even if you have a good idea, it just doesn't work out the way you expect it to... but marking an arc down purely because one is not getting PHATXPLEWTZLOLZ is just utterly asinine.
That's also an opinion. Do with it what you will.
---
"I fail to understand why everything in this script must explode." --Teal'c
Hmm, not sure how that article was "bad mouthing".... seemed like a reasonably balanced editorial on issues of what players want, what they'll do when they're given total freedom, and other issues of game development. Seemed reasonably neutral in tone. /shrug
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You should see me when soloing my Kin/Rad. Sometimes I sing about it.
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Originally Posted by Noxilicious
Tell me about it. More often than not, my urge to offer insightful commentary (haha, as if!) on the situation overrides my survival instinct and I will talk in the face of an EB bashing my face.
MY WORDS SHALL BE HEARD AND I WILL NOT LET ENEMY GROUPS SILENCE ME! |
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"its true tho xD" to little words? D:|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Blpup, no offense dude, but it's okay, and in fact expected to be a little more verbose on the forums than you are in-game.
Of course, I have the opposite problem, and anyone frequenting Justice For All in off hours will know of both, but still. |
was gona go for 1 but didnt let me
It says we can design our own levels - does that mean I can get to 51?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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actually you can Patrol+Double Exp+1month of soild grinding and that 1exp will be gained!
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It says we can design our own levels - does that mean I can get to 51?
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Bad idea... Why limit someone who can out level the rest of the population? |
Originally Posted by Airman_America
IF there was a maximum of levels you could earn in a given calendar day. If there was an alarm (like WoW has) about sudden massive changes in spending and cash reserves. If there was a way to identify missions used over and over for exploit we may have a solution. It would not stop players from fun, just those that ruin fun with attitudes like "screw you... I got mine!"
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I wish some could get it into their heads, some people like to level as fast as they can... its what they enjoy doing... it IS fun to them.
What would happen to the winner of the 2billion CC on liberty last night? I am sure a sudden increase of 2 billion influence, in the system you say you want would have got this toon banned or his account.
Do teh GMs or whoever have the time to police and question this type of increase? I wold say no... so if its an auto ban... well then i would feel sorry for big CC prize winners.
The anti-farmers/anti PLing population are the most militant group in this game. reminds me of people preaching tolerance yet having no tolerance for those that choose not to be tolerant.
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/12...-to-desig.html
its true tho xD