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I would make a suggestion for you.|
Originally Posted by 5th_Player
Yeah it would.
Apparently you don't read the contact text, the clues, the sending text, the boss quotes, the enter building text, the return to contact text, or the turn-in mish text. Not to mention that during combat most comic books have the main character think and react, which is at least 3 or 4 pages. Extend the boss fight that you see in game to have dialog during the fight (which most big fights have), and you easily have two books. But yeah, if all you do is talk to contact, get mish, click through text, open door, fight, call contact, click through text again, you can do that in one comic page. |
Go to the Player Guides.
Search on "Kheldian Backstory Guide."
Note who wrote it. Then come back and try to tell me that I don't pursue backstory/story information, ignore clues, dialog, and souveniers and the like.
My first SOA to 50 was my Widow. I didn't find *playing* her particularly enjoyable, but I kept on because she was farthest along the SOA "storyline." When I hit the ridiculous two-mission "arc," then came here and asked if that was an anomaly or not - and was told, no, the rest of the "arcs" were single mission shots, ending with "Click on Kalinda, then go watch a forced movie trying to explain a metagame mechanic (power proliferation) so you can beat up statesman" - which even the people here called shoddy, I nearly deleted the character. Not for play reasons, though she's still one of my least enjoyable characters, but because of the exceedingly disappointing storyline. One of my friends who heard my reaction to the arc *as I finished it* can back me up on that.
So, yes, I *do* pay attention to the story and what it *lacks.* If instead I were, as you put it, one of those who: As far as being disappointed with the AT itself - I should probably have started with a Crab. At 25 I'm enjoying its *playstyle* more than my Widow or Bane the entire run to 50 (40 in the case of the bane.)
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| all you do is talk to contact, get mish, click through text, open door, fight, call contact, click through text again, |
Had it been "Oh, that one's a bit weak, but the others pick up again afterward," I'd have no complaints. I'd be right alongside saying "don't' get disappointed at that level, all the other arcs are worth it." I'd probably have done a similar guide, combining what's in the AT's specific arcs with what we know from other sources like Phipps, for SoAs.
To be perfectly clear, so there's no misunderstanding, I complain about it because I think the AT deserves better as an Epic AT.
As far as being disappointed with the AT itself - I should probably have started with a Crab. At 25 I'm enjoying its *playstyle* more than my Widow or Bane the entire run to 50 (40 in the case of the bane.)
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Yeah I must admit I really hated Statesman's powerset proliferation speech as well - as if the VEAT storyline isn't bad enough, they tie it in to quite possibly the worst storyline aberration in CoH/V history (and a totally unnecessary one) - there was just no reason to ram that meta-lore down our throats at that time, seeing as VEATs have no connection to powerset proliferation or Dr Brainstorm whatsoever.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
My first SOA to 50 was my Widow. I didn't find *playing* her particularly enjoyable, but I kept on because she was farthest along the SOA "storyline." When I hit the ridiculous two-mission "arc," then came here and asked if that was an anomaly or not - and was told, no, the rest of the "arcs" were single mission shots, ending with "Click on Kalinda, then go watch a forced movie trying to explain a metagame mechanic (power proliferation) so you can beat up statesman" - which even the people here called shoddy, I nearly deleted the character. Not for play reasons, though she's still one of my least enjoyable characters, but because of the exceedingly disappointing storyline. One of my friends who heard my reaction to the arc *as I finished it* can back me up on that.
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Ever since they added the multi-builds, it turned my *EATs into my favorite characters to play, all 4 of them. I can have a total of 8 different characters in 4 slots. My Widow switches more often then the others, but that's because I enjoy changing it up.
I think the VEATs are incredibly playable, and well-designed...mechanically.
However, I hate the story, I hate the concept, and I hate the costumes we're saddled with until 10.
I have a Widow at 44-ish, and I enjoy the gameplay--I do, really. But the character design always screams, "SpiderFlunkies" to me.
I hated being shoehorned into the Rogue Isles storyline with Patron Powers. I similarly hate being shoehorned into it with the SF ATs.
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One thing that does seem to set the PBs apart from the Warshades (and I think this is pretty significant), is that the PBs are pretty well self contained. Their buffs and heals and whatnot come from within, whereas Warshades require a good supply of victims (or their victims' bodies) to do many of the same things.|
Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
Peacebringers... to me they just look like a Warshade but without all the amazing powers I loved on my Warshade. I'm prepared to be proved wrong when I play one...
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I personally enjoy both equally, and they definitely play differently from each other.
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While true, the Warshade powers are much stronger and the situations where self contained powers are more useful are rather rare. A Warshade experiences a higher level of performance on average than a Peacebringer in my experience.
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Originally Posted by Willowpaw
One thing that does seem to set the PBs apart from the Warshades (and I think this is pretty significant), is that the PBs are pretty well self contained. Their buffs and heals and whatnot come from within, whereas Warshades require a good supply of victims (or their victims' bodies) to do many of the same things.
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
It's safe to say both are late bloomers, though one requires only different teammates, while the other requires the same AT as itself, redundancy fail?....no Veats in big teams, yield the best damage output.
On the other eye, Khelds have the ability to tank and blast with ease . Also PB's can heal other Tmates (I've seen it). A small semantical note, but every little bit counts.
Best advice; Get passed L24 (seriously it gets better)
Worst advice; delete your Veat and ignore the class forever.
MMORPG advice; Play a Celestial? (see Champions Online)
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
I think PB's are better in the early to mid game to whereas WS's seem to shine mid to late.
Personal opinion:
I prefer calling them extended rather than epics, because imo
H/V Extended AT's suits them better than H/V Epic AT's.
And the H/V E AT's are imo an extention of the existing AT's.
(Widows for example are Claws+Spines, Claw and Dart attacks with Lethal+Poison DMG.)
I say this as all AT's start at level 1 (2 after the tutorial) and progress to level 50, following player selected missions and arc's.
__________________
Additionally, I feel that the Epics are the non-AT standard powers in the APP/PPP's.
Yes I know Kheldians don't directly get these, but they have more standard top end powers, which is where their epicness comes from.
If for example there was a APP or two, linked to Kheldian powers, this imo would give standard (Hero) AT's a feeling of epicness.
(A Nicti PPP for non VEAT Villain AT's)
Nuff Said...
Coolio Wolfus leader of Coolio�s Crusaders on Union.
Tekna Logik leader of Tekna�s Tormentors on Defiant.
Creator of: Coolio's Tech Beacon Replacements
AE arc 402506, 'The Rise and Demise or Otherwise of Tekna Logik...'.
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This. My jaw dropped when I saw the cutscene for the first time. And not in a good way.|
Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
Yeah I must admit I really hated Statesman's powerset proliferation speech as well - as if the VEAT storyline isn't bad enough, they tie it in to quite possibly the worst storyline aberration in CoH/V history (and a totally unnecessary one) - there was just no reason to ram that meta-lore down our throats at that time, seeing as VEATs have no connection to powerset proliferation or Dr Brainstorm whatsoever.
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I was happily surprised when VEATS were able to be squeezed into an issue earlier than expected. However, the VEAT storyline really feels like it was done under a tight deadline.
Go Team Venture!
I haven't had the patience to get one to 24 as of yet, lol. 6 deleted so far. XD
I still haven't got to the end of the VEAT story arc yet. I do tend to mostly use it for curiousity sake, and for missions in general. I have my own story that I make up for my characters anyway.
I dislike the HEAT stories just as much. Well, t'be fair thats not accurate. I hate the missions. Why?
Whatever goddamned bright spark decided to give PBs VAHZILOK, god damned freaking zombie puke monster VAHZILOK as the first enemy group should be taken out, kicked, kneecapped and shot.
Seriously, when you don't really start to gleam (
) until the 20+'s, giving PBs Vahzilok at low levels is nothing short of stupid. Teaming make them possible, but they are hell to solo, even on 0/0 diff.
Why? Hard hitting toxic ranged damage and slow effects. Zombies that die fast but hit like a freight train. Oh, and the LTs can rez zombies.
I still hate the Zahzilok most at low levels. Not hate as in broken hate, just hate to the point where I grin while killing them in teams and suchnot.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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With my two PBs, I didn't really see that as a problem. Why? Perhaps I was just lucky, but no zombie was ever able to get close enough to lay a decayed hand on me. And I do not seem to recall having trouble with the zombie barf either.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Whatever goddamned bright spark decided to give PBs VAHZILOK, god damned freaking zombie puke monster VAHZILOK as the first enemy group should be taken out, kicked, kneecapped and shot.
Seriously, when you don't really start to gleam ( ) until the 20+'s, giving PBs Vahzilok at low levels is nothing short of stupid. Teaming make them possible, but they are hell to solo, even on 0/0 diff. Why? Hard hitting toxic ranged damage and slow effects. Zombies that die fast but hit like a freight train. Oh, and the LTs can rez zombies. I still hate the Zahzilok most at low levels. Not hate as in broken hate, just hate to the point where I grin while killing them in teams and suchnot. |
I was actually happy to fight Vahz at such a low level, since they have an XP bonus, that meant faster leveling. And if you take out their chaperones fast (Reapers, Morts, and Eidolons, the rest are pretty easy pickings since they lose interest in you fast.)
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I don't have your luck. I had a lvl pact duo with a friend and his WS, we both got faceplanted over and over. It's the fact that all Vahz do toxic damage, the docs have stacking slow, and the zombies actual punches semm capable of breaking concrete, let alone our lowbie boomers.
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Originally Posted by Willowpaw
With my two PBs, I didn't really see that as a problem. Why? Perhaps I was just lucky, but no zombie was ever able to get close enough to lay a decayed hand on me. And I do not seem to recall having trouble with the zombie barf either.
I was actually happy to fight Vahz at such a low level, since they have an XP bonus, that meant faster leveling. And if you take out their chaperones fast (Reapers, Morts, and Eidolons, the rest are pretty easy pickings since they lose interest in you fast.) |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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This^^^ oh god this. I'm half-afraid that Going Rogue is going to involve a cutscene where States says something to the effect of "You'd all better switch to your alternate builds, get the best enhancements, and eat a bunch of inspirations--these Praetorians are going to be tough!"
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Originally Posted by BlackSun17
This. My jaw dropped when I saw the cutscene for the first time. And not in a good way.
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There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Where can I see the cutscene your talking about?
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Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
This^^^ oh god this. I'm half-afraid that Going Rogue is going to involve a cutscene where States says something to the effect of "You'd all better switch to your alternate builds, get the best enhancements, and eat a bunch of inspirations--these Praetorians are going to be tough!"
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It's the last VEAT "arc" (a single mission *eyeroll*), the one where you have to fight Statesman. He has this monologue that's all about Dr. Brainstorm causing powerset proliferation. It's not even forced, it's just...bad.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Made beating him up all the more rewarding IMO. |
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
It's the last VEAT "arc" (a single mission *eyeroll*), the one where you have to fight Statesman. He has this monologue that's all about Dr. Brainstorm causing powerset proliferation. It's not even forced, it's just...bad.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Okay. When I get to that one, I am going to treat the whole thing as just a really lame dream sequence (sorta like Highlander 2, I suppose).|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
It's the last VEAT "arc" (a single mission *eyeroll*), the one where you have to fight Statesman. He has this monologue that's all about Dr. Brainstorm causing powerset proliferation. It's not even forced, it's just...bad.
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Then again, my VEATs have no actual loyalty to Arachnos. They are just using the spider training and equipment to advance their own agendas (like providing needed heroing service for the Isles...for fun and profit).
So germane to this post, I'm running my Peacebringer through one of these terrible arcs that Memphis Bill tells me is supposed to be better than the VEAT arcs and here is the flimsy justification Sunstorm gives me for having to clear yet another map of Council:
"If the Council knows what we're looking for, they're likely to alter or destroy the decryption key. So you had better arrest every villain in the place, to keep them guessing about our true intent."
/drop mission
/logoff - Since that mission was pure filler and he now wants me to go after a defector, probably on another damn Council map! 
All this in service to letting the heroes know that "Nictus are bad". Umm... dude, the heroes and villains whip Nictus behind 20 times a day in Cim. We get it. Darn, these Kheldians arc suck!
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I will say this for most of the older Heroside story stuff:|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
So germane to this post, I'm running my Peacebringer through one of these terrible arcs that Memphis Bill tells me is supposed to be better than the VEAT arcs and here is the flimsy justification Sunstorm gives me for having to clear yet another map of Council:
"If the Council knows what we're looking for, they're likely to alter or destroy the decryption key. So you had better arrest every villain in the place, to keep them guessing about our true intent." /drop mission /logoff - Since that mission was pure filler and he now wants me to go after a defector, probably on another damn Council map! All this in service to letting the heroes know that "Nictus are bad". Umm... dude, the heroes and villains whip Nictus behind 20 times a day in Cim. We get it. Darn, these Kheldians arc suck! |
It's dull. Jawachingly, toothnumbingly, nosebendingly dull.
Defeat all. Defeat all. Hunt. Hostage. Deafeat all. Defeat all. DefeeaAAAAAAAHRAGRARHARGAR -flails madly, foaming at the mouth-
If they went back and re-did the Missions (not the story, just the missions) and then gave the VEATs a DECENT story, or at least an alternative (traitor/loyalist?) then, well, win win?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Without commenting on the quality one way or another, that was the explanation for it given on the official site at the time.
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Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
It's the last VEAT "arc" (a single mission *eyeroll*), the one where you have to fight Statesman. He has this monologue that's all about Dr. Brainstorm causing powerset proliferation. It's not even forced, it's just...bad.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Just adding in my unwanted .2 cents...
I have one and even two of each HEAT/VEAT and enjoy the versatility of them all in different ways. I think it's safe to say that one type of AT isn't better then any other type, it just comes down to a matter of personal preference.
That said, it always amazes me when somone says that PBs aren't very good - with Blaster level dmg (base 100ft range for Nova single target blasts, have mine upto ~170ft in PvP) as either a pure Blaster or a "Blapper", near tank level resistance, 2x self heals/heal other & a Dull Pain clone, a built in phase, a self rez click and the ability to switch back and forth to any form based on the mob being faced...I'm not sure what else you could ask for in 1 toon. I just use him for TFs now, but it feels pretty uber to me...just like my WS, Bane and Forts do.
I could go on with a breakdown of all the HEATs/VEATs...but you really just have to find out what you like and play it.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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I will also do this.|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Just adding in my unwanted .2 cents...
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I've had my two kheldians for a few months now, and they are at 11 and 12 respectively. I really want to like them, but I am almost exclusively a solo player and the number of times my PB has died is probably some sort of record. The few times I have teamed with them they feel like different ATs, but I just don't really like teaming very much. I hope to slog through to a point where I actually understand how to play them properly, but I believe it will be slow going.
I only got my first red side 50 late last week. My soldier, as of today, is 22 and that is completely solo. I have never had a toon level so fast. An absolute joy to play, my only criticism is that I am locked out of spider armor pieces on my other costume slots. That is a crazy decision someone made, and I wish they would change it.
However, I am looking forward to the crab legs, so what do I know?
i got all 4 villain epic to 50. okay but not as good as some of the normal stuff or the ws or pb. although i hate the squid look, it's just awful design. dwarf is cool though.