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^This|
Originally Posted by Zortel
This is the danger of mothering governments. See Australia's actions on video games and the internet for example. These out of touch people get the wrong ideas and decide to ban something for the majority, when only a minority ever cause a few problems.
Here's a thought, Germany/Australia/Everywhere Else: 100 people play BLOODGUN: GUNS AND BLOOD with its bump-mapped gore splatter and 7.1 surround sound bullet engine. Two people who played BLOODGUN: GUNS AND BLOOD at a later point go on to go postal. Obviously it's not things like mental or emotional problems or drugs or social causes or anything. No, it has to be the VIOLENT GAME OF VIOLENCE AND BLOOD AND GUNS. Know what kills more people than video-game related violence? Cars. Smoking. Alcohol. You don't see any governments banning these things though. Driving a several ton vehicle that can go over one hundred miles an hour is fine, but playing a game that has elements of violence in? That's terrible and sick and wrong and no good could ever come from that. Drinking causes more violence than computer gaming. Video games don't make me violent. Stupid, knee-jerk governemtn decisions and censorship make me think violent thoughts. |
It's a bit ridiculous if you think about. For OUTRAGEOUSLY violent games (I.E: Manhunt which was banned in several countries and the sequel was banned here before the release IIRC). With games like that it is understandable why governments do this.. Sort of. Censorship is a good and bad thing, while it stops certain people being exposed to things they shouldn't be exposed to for whatever reason it can also be abused and stop people being exposed to things that are perfectly fine.
As Zortel said, playing video games doesn't really make me want to re-enact things I saw in the game, yet for whatever reason people without exposure to these games will coincidentaly perform actions they saw in the game.
I don't really care what statistics say, tbh, they can be fairly easily manipulated.
If this does happen then I hope there is only a temporary downtime in which a new country can be chosen to host the servers or something to that effect.
But do the German government really have the right to force this inconvenience upon a foreign company?
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I think, if it ever came to pass that they would class the ownership and installation of the game as illegal as buying it from a German shop. My brain remembers quite some time ago the first screen of installing Return to Castle Wolfenstein which stated a line along the idea of: It is unlawful to install or play this game in Germany. If you are in Germany please click Cancel to this installation (it was something along those lines and I might be wrong as I haven't seen it in years). They felt that they had to put it on the install even though it was banned from the shops over there.|
Originally Posted by Bindweed
Would that be the case, though? Surely, if the servers were relocated to another country, German-based players could still play, couldn't they? The article states that retailers would be prohibited from selling the game in Germany, but that doesn't mean that German players can't buy downloads and play online, on foreign-hosted servers.
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Originally Posted by Bindweed
I also hope that there are degrees of "violence" in whatever criteria the Joy Police are proposing: I can imagine things like GTA, or Bully, or Mortal Kombat and its fatalities qualifying for prohibition, but although City of Villains might raise questions regarding ethics and morality with some over-sensitive, political-advisor psychologists, they'd have to be extremely zealous and stupid to place a game like City of Heroes in the same class. If that's the case, then in, too, will go WoW, all the WW2 stuff, flight simulators, everything, in fact, that's a little more stern than My Little Pony.
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My parents think that gaming is bad and hope that I don't get into that sort of trouble (I am 31 and married, but they still think this because of the 'Daily Hate').
Politicians are the people who will pass this law, politicians who don't play games, because if they did the law wouldn't even get close to making the news...
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Sooooo.... before voting for your politicians/legislators, make sure they are gamers? | Politicians are the people who will pass this law, politicians who don't play games, because if they did the law wouldn't even get close to making the news... |
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
I suspect that even if the German govt attempted to pass this legislation it would get overturned by the EU.
Their moral stance (however right, wrong or just plain misinformed) would falter immediately $$$ came into the equation and EU based games developers, publishers, ISPs etc lobbied them. It would kill the German IT community dead in it's tracks and Germans are, if nothing else, highly pragmatic.
Thelonious Monk
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Oh hell yeah, I would vote Monster Raving Gamer Party any day... Who cares that most of the policies will be rubbish, they are gamers damnit |
Originally Posted by Impish_Kat
Sooooo.... before voting for your politicians/legislators, make sure they are gamers?
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Come on, Necropolis - one post per month for 5 years then two in the same thread on the same day? Are you going on holiday soon and upping your count in advance? 
Back to serious: I see what you mean with the Wolfenstein example, which is why i think such a move would be impossible to police. I have no idea how many German-based players would continue to subscribe to WoW, CoH, Guild Wars, AoC, etc etc - but I bet it's not an insignificant number to contend with when it comes to processing the police and judicial paperwork and then funding custodial sentences with tax-payers Euros. I think there'd be a case for Human Rights appeals to the Hague, too.
<snark>
Of course, it's not like the news media to overreact, is it? Either with frenzied scaremongering about the dangers of popular culture, or with equally frenzied scaremongering about dictatorial governments that threaten to destroy popular culture. I mean, it's not like it sells papers or advertising or threatens to make minor celebrities out of editors who may wish to have a television career instead? Maybe even a judge on Britain's/America's Got Talent or something...? Does it?
</snark>
If the EU servers were made to shut down for some reason (can't see it happening imo) then NCSoft would probably relocate the data to 4 extra servers in the US, hopefully merging server lists at the same time.
In fact, dammit, this could be a good thing (I kid)
Strange that Germany would enact such things but then again they have had games where milk bleeds out of people to.
Doom/Batman in 2012
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
Well, if this legislation passes German gamers are definitely in deep trouble and that is not only because of the intended use.
In recent years laws in Germany are bad, really bad from a technical point of view. I remember seeing the first draft of a change to weapons law which had a very inaccurate definition of the term "weapon". Actually this definition was so inaccurate that even handcuffs were weapons according to that law. So, if they had not changed it back to something closer to the original form before passing legislation we would now have to apply for a weapons license before engaging in kinky games with our girls.
(Interestingly this change was done in a haste after a gun rampage in a German school, so there is even a kind of connection between this law and the one about violent games.)
So, judging by the technical quality of newer German laws I would be somewhat surprised if this law would not classify boxing games and most jump&runs as "violent".
That said I do not really think that this law will pass. The strongest supporters are known to be not only the most conservative but also the most uninformed and utterly stupid politicians Germany has to offer. I do not think any of them has actually ever used a computer for anything else than checking their emails... and even that is cast in doubt.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Totally agree, though it's even more ridiculous since it's hundreds of thousands of players playing BLOODGUN and only one or two people who go postal.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
This is the danger of mothering governments. See Australia's actions on video games and the internet for example. These out of touch people get the wrong ideas and decide to ban something for the majority, when only a minority ever cause a few problems.
Here's a thought, Germany/Australia/Everywhere Else: 100 people play BLOODGUN: GUNS AND BLOOD with its bump-mapped gore splatter and 7.1 surround sound bullet engine. Two people who played BLOODGUN: GUNS AND BLOOD at a later point go on to go postal. Obviously it's not things like mental or emotional problems or drugs or social causes or anything. No, it has to be the VIOLENT GAME OF VIOLENCE AND BLOOD AND GUNS. Know what kills more people than video-game related violence? Cars. Smoking. Alcohol. You don't see any governments banning these things though. Driving a several ton vehicle that can go over one hundred miles an hour is fine, but playing a game that has elements of violence in? That's terrible and sick and wrong and no good could ever come from that. Drinking causes more violence than computer gaming. Video games don't make me violent. Stupid, knee-jerk governemtn decisions and censorship make me think violent thoughts. |
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
Take it from the German: It's unlikely to happen.
Why? Well, mostly because this idea crops up every couple years. Usually as a filler topic in the weak summer months. Some guy does something stupid and it's found he has Counter-Strike or Quake or whatever on his PC. Cries go out to ban these things. A lot of hot air is blown about, and nothing ever happens, for several reasons.
One, it's plain unconsitutional. The worst they could do is slap an 'adults only' label on stuff and forbid it from being advertised or openly displayed in all-ages stores. Which would be bad but hasn't hindered music albums or movies on the so-called 'index' from becoming obscenely popular.
Outright bans can currently only been given on material that either features a real crime (eg. plagiarism, racist propaganda or child pornography) or is otherwise questionable because it serves no other end other than to glorify the inhumane. Which is rarely invoked, not touching on splatter movies for example. However, one of my favourite bands had a few of its songs permanently banned. Inspired by splatter themes, one song tells the story of a cancer victim who decides to go out before the disease takes him and starts a bloodbath, and one is about a man who keeps a decomposing 'girlfriend' in a safe location for sexual purposes. Oh, and one about a pig farmer who like to pick up and murder prostitutes to make his special feed. Other songs dealing with torture and mass murder for example did however make the grade to merely adult-only labelling.
As such you can tell that under the basic freedom of expression laws most western civilizations sport, it takes a special kind of nasty to get banned in Germany. Essentially, to really have a chance to get this law past the legal hurdles, they'd have to prove that there is a high probability that violent computer games are harmful or dehumanizing. Which they can't.
Why it's all hot air.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
From what I hear, chasing businesses out of Germany during a recession is pretty much political suicide.
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Unfortunately, the conservatives are likely to win the upcoming elections because... get this... a ranking member of their strongest contender, the social democrats, had her favourite driver bring her her limo all the way to Spain where she was addressing a group of German pensioners in a bit of pre-campaigning. Not only didn't she need the limo for the brief trip from her hotel to the meeting, not only did the drive incure several thousand Euros worth of costs for the taxpayer, no. To top things off that car got stolen in Spain, which really catapulted the story into the news and is likely to be the one single torpedo that'll sink the moderate party's ambitions.|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
From what I hear, chasing businesses out of Germany during a recession is pretty much political suicide.
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The only upside is that our conservatives are about as conservative as the US Democrats. But like most right-wing parties they're essentially a bunch of big business muppets whose great idea of combating the recession is to make blue collar people work more for less money, give up on paid off days and so on while allowing bankers to make off with millions of bonus payments from the taxpayer's pocket.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Huh. I can't think of a single game I've played that doesn't fall under that classification.
Good thing I'm not in germany.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
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Originally Posted by Eisregen_NA
The only upside is that our conservatives are about as conservative as the US Democrats. But like most right-wing parties they're essentially a bunch of big business muppets whose great idea of combating the recession is to make blue collar people work more for less money, give up on paid off days and so on while allowing bankers to make off with millions of bonus payments from the taxpayer's pocket.
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But you're not bitter.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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Unfortunately we are stuck with two big parties that both walk the same path with different explanations. Both are easily insolent enough to assume they have to do the thinking for the people and pass corresponding laws, p***ing intelligent people off in the process. |
Originally Posted by Eisregen_NA
Unfortunately, the conservatives are likely to win the upcoming elections because... get this... a ranking member of their strongest contender, the social democrats, had her favourite driver bring her her limo all the way to Spain where she was addressing a group of German pensioners in a bit of pre-campaigning. Not only didn't she need the limo for the brief trip from her hotel to the meeting, not only did the drive incure several thousand Euros worth of costs for the taxpayer, no. To top things off that car got stolen in Spain, which really catapulted the story into the news and is likely to be the one single torpedo that'll sink the moderate party's ambitions.
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On top of that, if you consider at least the last decade and pay attention to detail you might get the impression that both of those parties are desperately trying not to win elections. It is theatre... and a ridiculously pathetic one on top of that.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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It was probably put best in one of the first Werner comics.|
Originally Posted by Sitriel
Unfortunately we are stuck with two big parties that both walk the same path with different explanations. Both are easily insolent enough to assume they have to do the thinking for the people and pass corresponding laws, p***ing intelligent people off in the process.
On top of that, if you consider at least the last decade and pay attention to detail you might get the impression that both of those parties are desperately trying not to win elections. It is theatre... and a ridiculously pathetic one on top of that. |
"If you needed to pick between two piles of ****, which ones would you pick?"
I'm generally squirming here because political discussions have nominally been taboo on the US boards but I fully agree. The two centrist parties are either doing horribly or trying so hard to appeal to the lowest common denominator that they have long lost any semblance of a properly defined outline. The Liberal Democrats (really a party for upper middle class intellectuals) have accepted that they will never be more than the christian union's sidekick, the Green Party has lost all direction since the other major parties also adopted green agendas and the only thing they really know is that they're not the Left. The Left in turn wants to appeal to the man on the street but completely loses me when they become apologists for homegrown terrorists.
Like all politics, it comes down to picking the lesser evil, cause not voting really means that 'they' will win. Maybe when Wowereit finally graduates to national politics, he'll cause enough of a stir for parties to define themselves a bit better. In spite of all his faults, I'm very fond of my mayor because he's at least given up constantly trying to please everyone and instead simply focuses on what he thinks should be done and lets the voters judge him. Not many politicians have the guts to do so anymore.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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I'm never bitter, just... spicy. In fact, I'm Angry Spice. The crossdressing unknown member of a 90s girl band, kinda like the fifth Beatle. Which of course makes me even angrier.
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
But you're not bitter.
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"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Between the Patriot Act in Yanktown, Big Ben's Big Brother, the Great Firewall of Australia, Japan finally getting around to banning sexual predator simulators, and this mess, where are we supposed to go to celebrate free speech?
France?
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Uh. You make it sound as if that's a bad thing...|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
...Japan finally getting around to banning sexual predator simulators...
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Not that it sounds like a wholesome or sanitary concept to begin with.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
I feel sorry for the German guys.
I am seriously sick of out of touch old (bad word)'s who get the wrong idea, have absolutely no idea what they are dealing with or talking about, and decide to ban it for normal people.
Alcohol has caused more violence, injuries and deaths to this date than video games ever will for the rest of future history.
They don't ban their own bad habits though, do they?
They really have no idea what they are dealing with, at all. And they have no common sense to realise it.
Well, I guess it is more profitable to get parents' votes by blaming violent computer games than it is to get gamers' votes by blaming bad parents.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
If it means they are moving the servers. Yay!
The servers are fine where they are.
Not much on this in the German forums. I asked.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)