A sense of accomplishment?

I've been moaning a lot about this game, part because I still somehow love it, part because I'm bored after all these years, but yesterday I started thinking about it.

What drives us to continue and what could drive us on for years - from a pure psychological point of view?

Well, let's think about it?

- The evolution of the world?
I'm a sucker for well-written stories. I usually can't stand Hollywood movies because they're too predictable, unless the action is mindnumbing so I forget about it. The reason I play games are usually because I want to know how they'll end. I think we all wanna know what will happen to the world of the "cities". In itself I don't think that's enough though!

- The community?
This is the major reason for staying in-game. You make friends and you don't wanna loose them. Trying to migrate to another game and you inevitably loose a lot of them. Staying in the game, you loose some, and usually make new friends. In the end you've lost so many there's no reason to stay for that reason alone.

..and the point that got me thinking, really thinking:
(Actually, I was thinking about work, the similarities are scary, really...)

- A sense of accomplishment?
While I've not played it, I think EVE hit the point here. We wanna see the evolution of ourselves. We want more stuff, we wanna get better, we want our characters to improve. This is the reason I'd rather play my villains, than a "regular" game. I feel I accomplish something lasting. I know it's an illusion, but it works.

Levelling up to 50, purp'ling up our alts, getting the badges etc drives us on. Eventually you might get hooked on creating the best, biggest jolly-goo-good SG base there is, but then what? Some games solve this by up'in the level cap. We're obviously(?) getting some unlockable slots and there will be more "content", but this IS a problem isn't it; that's a very, very temporary "fix".

Sure, there's always more alts, and purp'lin' up takes a lot of time, but for me Sing Star's got pretty much everything I can slot, and I've got some other nearly maxed out alts. So, I'm working on getting a perma-dom dominator that'll take forever, but still...

While we may argue that new story content is important etc, I think this, from a commercial and psychological standpoint is even more important in the long run. How will the game give me my "fix", make me feel I'm still accomplishing something? How will it keep rewarding my hard work in the long run? How will the game motivate me?

Will we get by with just quick fixes, like some new stories, powersets/ATs, new inventions etc? Will we just continue; old habits die hard?

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I feel I accomplish something lasting. I know it's an illusion, but it works.

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I read an article about this some time ago that went into this in depth. Can't find it now, but you're spot-on here. This is why the games that do best aren't necessarily the ones people seem to have most fun playing, but are the ones that have the most accomplishments, things to keep people hooked.

I certainly know multiple people who play MMOs, never seem to be enjoying themselves, complain constantly, but then drag themselves online because they have to get the latest gear for their character, because the level cap's gone up and they just have to be there, etc. And I know I catch myself doing it to some extent... if there's a temporary event going, I feel like I have to get all the badges and so on, even though I'm not that bothered with badges. I hate to think what it can be like to real completionists who feel they need all of them on all alts.


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While we may argue that new story content is important etc, I think this, from a commercial and psychological standpoint is even more important in the long run.

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Well, it depends what the devs really want. In purely mercenary make-lots-of-money terms, yes, this is the most important thing. But the problem is, as above, false achievements often aren't actually fun. People feel that have to do stuff, so they do - but they aren't necessarily really enjoying it as they do it. It's playing on human instincts to make money.

Personally, if this game really made an effort to go more in that direction, I'd probably give up on it. One of the things I love about CoX is that there's no real pressure to be here constantly - you can leave, and come back, and you won't have fallen behind everyone else. You might need to respec if things have changed a bit, but you probably won't find your characters unplayable even then, and you'll have a free respec waiting.

Given that, it's no surprise that the game doesn't have as huge a population as some that have more of those little hooks to keep you feeling like you have to be there, you have to keep working. Things seem to suggest it has a pretty stable population though, and I'm guessing that's because while some people leave, others return, refreshed after a break.

Now, if the devs wanted this to be a behemoth of a game that people felt afraid to put down, then yes, more false achievement would be the way to go. But I'm pretty sure they've made comments before about the casual-friendly aspect of this game, so I assume that's something they want to keep

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Personally I'm still (back) here because I haven't found anything other than WoW I enjoy, and I get bored of WoW after a few months so come back here.

Community, some days yeah but other days no.

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Community? What community?

I'd also say that the one thing I'd love for MMOs to adopt is the idea of an overarching plot. I thought CoX was going to have one, but they simply revive forgotten factions and add a small story around their re-emergence rather than create a story that changes as time goes by and perhaps reacts to the actions of the players. I think that SWTOR will be doing this, but I wonder about the will of other games to progress their model in this manner.

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Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com

Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.

reason for my staying is not in any order but:
i still have toons to lvl up. themes to complete
becuase this has been my first mmo ive ever played in my life (full game,only other mmo i tried was wows trial- 7 hours inc installing-yer no lol) i dont know another good game to go to
the community- its unbelievably awesome. taking out the 24/7 moaners tht is.
friends ive made.
i know the abve is sad but after 3 and a bit yrs playing this, i cant see myself leaving. and the way things r going its just going to get better
oh plus....super heroes v archvillains. i love being evil so this is awesome.

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There will be lull times but some people have rather more positive people to get them through it.

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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

I have deactivated and reactivated my account so many times it's beyond my memory!
I am always drawn back to CoH, it has nothing to do with the community, really, because I barely ever intergrate myself very well, I just love the game even with all it's flaws.
Every time I hit 50 I always grumble a bit with "hmm, what nows" but it never gets me down long before I'm grinding another alt!

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Hmm, nice post Sing.

I take two breaks from the game in past. That was because i was bored at those times. If i have to point my personal view on the things you said;

- To be honest i don't care much about evolution of the game world. If devs put in somethings shinny it is all good but i am still playing this game as it is now.

- Friends? Well that was what i was thinking that binding me to this game but as some of you know moved to Defiant. I left many good friends on Union but now making new ones fast on Defiant. It is game's easy going/ down to earth community instead of friends. Yeah there are some torns on both sides, just like RL people you can stay away from them.

- Accomplisment; After my 2nd return when i first logged into a new character I got that thrill I had on the first day of the game. A great excitement. Every new hero is a challange for me, as well as Task Forces i make with them. Reaching to the next level, trying your new powers, respecing and changing your build compeletly, all those are great things make this game enjoyable.

Also other than your reasons i have one more, very special reason: Inspiration i get from my characters and other characters i see in game. As i didn't post much in my creative UP thread lately you can think i lost that inspiration. Not likely I am trying to build a good story for my new heroes (Defiant Boys) and villians (which i never play in game but create them in my mind or in MA mission creator). Reason for this break is; something broke my spirit... I am kinda afraid of getting near to pencil and paper. All that failed attempts on drawing one character, bad coloring experiences... they put me off, worn me out. Just trying to regain my strenght, i will continue that fun idea in future.

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[ QUOTE ]
reason for my staying is not in any order but:
i still have toons to lvl up. themes to complete
becuase this has been my first mmo ive ever played in my life (full game,only other mmo i tried was wows trial- 7 hours inc installing-yer no lol) i dont know another good game to go to
the community- its unbelievably awesome. taking out the 24/7 moaners tht is.
friends ive made.
i know the abve is sad but after 3 and a bit yrs playing this, i cant see myself leaving. and the way things r going its just going to get better
oh plus....super heroes v archvillains. i love being evil so this is awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]Ticked all the boxes as to why I stay,tried WoW not my scene at all, lots of different power sets to try yet as well

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Prof Radburn controller,Celtic Ice Maiden,blaster,Miss Knockout scrapper,Mistress Davina controller,Stone Hart,tank Split Personality PB.Queen Lostris controller,Fridgid Mary blaster,Shocking Fire blaster Future Elfling defender, Little Weed controller,Capo Angelo MM, Commander Buzzsaw MM, Justice Tank tank all 50,s

The biggest flaw of CoX is it's lack of a plot. Game improvements and tweaks are not enough to fill an issue. Neither are standalone TFs. Especially for something that has perhaps the worst upgrade/month out of any game except WoW. CoX needs to advance the story in every issue. I'm fine if they still adopt their random, "sometimes it will be one every six months, sometimes one a month" attitude, as long as they do everything they should be doing in every issue.

Asheron's Call, best MMO of all time, why was it so great? Because the plot never stopped evolving, and it still is evolving. It doesn't matter if there's barely anyone playing it anymore or that it's graphics are almost a decade old I still love it with a passion. It's plot is the greatest is I have ever seen, in anything.

CoX needs plot! Going Rogue will be meaningless if they don't advance the plot of Going Rogue in each successive issue, AND include factions from Primal Earth and not just Praetorian Earth. Not to mention in the issues leading up to GR - if there are any - make missions that drop hints to the oncoming invasion of Emperor Cole. Then, you would be one step closer to encroaching on the block-pixeled majesty of Asheron's Call.

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Bad Voodoo by @Beyond Reach. Arc ID #373659. Level 20-24. Mr. Bocor has fallen victim to a group of hooded vigilantes who have been plaguing Port Oakes, interfering with illegal operations and pacifying villain's powers. He demands that revenge is taken on these miscreants and his powers are returned! You look like just the villain for the job. Challenging.

Issues that have lately evolved the story line.
[*] RWZ story arcs + taskforces[*] Ouroboros and their story arcs/taskforces[*] Midnighters zone/arcs[*] POSSIBLY the new taskforces in issue 15 (even though smallest issue ever)

While non stop content is great (and we have all been calling for a ton of new content which looks like we'll get in CoR), you must not forget about addons to the game that the majority of people would spend more time on that actual content.
[*] Inventions[*] New powersets[*] New costumes[*] MA

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@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!

It's the little things that also make a difference,
They could have hotfixed the MA buildings zones a few times with demolition, fencing, cranes, construction and finally the finished MA buildings...

For players who never visit the forums or bother to read the intro info, this would of helpd draw their interest that some changes were coming in those locations...

Aparently they have done this before, but were too busy with the bugged MA (It's losing a load of badges come I15) to bother with the small details...

They could of used the same MA construction model in all MA zones with a new look evey so often leading to the opening of the MA buildings.

You know under construction, coming soon, opening on <date> signs and building work.

Give the cities that feeling that they are alive, then I can feel that I accomplish something with each generic mission, as the city would keep growing...

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[ QUOTE ]
Give the cities that feeling that they are alive, then I can feel that I accomplish something with each generic mission, as the city would keep growing...

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this.

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@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity

If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.

i think that interaction in the environment is lacking greatly, story's are just plain boring and everything is all the same all over again and again and again...etc...
i see absolutely no accomplishments around this game, the only one i can think of is every 10 levels from lvl 20 of.
but because of the worst ever grind fest of levels, having this accomplishment takes just weeks to get.(granted to be casual)
lower this time has it's benefit, and they can always make something to slow it down.
they could, for instance, make it so that you can set the XP gain in your options or where you set your difficulty.

i do agree that it's strange when you see a lvl 50 players that barely knows anything about the game, but then again, that's not the player's fault, that's the fault of bad design.
i just look at GW factions, where everything is explained on stones so you can learn everything your self on your tempo.
of they add something like this in atlas/galaxy/mercy like a tutorial contact, players learn to play the game, even on higher levels so new things can be learned.

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i do agree that it's strange when you see a lvl 50 players that barely knows anything about the game, but then again, that's not the player's fault, that's the fault of bad design.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love the idea that people are not responsible for their own ignorance, but I've seen too many examples in life to agree it's likely

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"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"

You could say that the improved facilities in the Hollows is the result of our efforts there over the past few years.
Although, while we've weakend the Outcasts, Thorns and Trolls there, as seen in their smaller, less frequent mobs, it's also opened up some new turf for other gangs to move in on, like the Hellions and Skulls.
The Thorns seem to be the hardest hit gang rencently - not only have they been reduced in the Hollows, but they're having to deal with the Legacy Chain there, not just other gangs - plus, they were totally driven out of Faultline too.

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@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

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i do agree that it's strange when you see a lvl 50 players that barely knows anything about the game, but then again, that's not the player's fault, that's the fault of bad design.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love the idea that people are not responsible for their own ignorance, but I've seen too many examples in life to agree it's likely

[/ QUOTE ]
if a flaw in the learning curve of the game is ignorance, then ok.

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[ QUOTE ]
Issues that have lately evolved the story line.
[*] RWZ story arcs + taskforces[*] Ouroboros and their story arcs/taskforces[*] Midnighters zone/arcs[*] POSSIBLY the new taskforces in issue 15 (even though smallest issue ever)


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're holding the wrong end of the stick. While they do add to the existing plot, they don't add to each other. Instead they add to the original content, instead. While it's nice to see Riktified Hero 1 and also to craft a lost cure, might it be possible to cure Hero 1 after you defeat him? Oh... you don't want to make old content obsolete?

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Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com

Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Issues that have lately evolved the story line.
[*] RWZ story arcs + taskforces[*] Ouroboros and their story arcs/taskforces[*] Midnighters zone/arcs[*] POSSIBLY the new taskforces in issue 15 (even though smallest issue ever)


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're holding the wrong end of the stick. While they do add to the existing plot, they don't add to each other. Instead they add to the original content, instead. While it's nice to see Riktified Hero 1 and also to craft a lost cure, might it be possible to cure Hero 1 after you defeat him? Oh... you don't want to make old content obsolete?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what you mean why would individual story threads nessicerely add to each other? I also wonder are you paying attention there us allready a link between Ouroborus and the midnighters there's also a semi link between the midnighters and the new task force in the form of the 5th column so there are links there.

As to the healing of hero1 he's not a member of the lost he's something else the wand only works on the lost of paragon earth and more work on it is required for it to affect the other rikti.

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Remember they DID change/remove some old TFs way back, back in time!

I almost bought SW:G once because it seemed to really have an on-going plot where the players actions had an impact. Got CoX instead!

On another note, I've been wondering for sooo long what that construction site around the arena in P.O. is all about. That sort of small hints are so valuable, not seeing progress on it for a few issues has made me pretty sad. The first thing I've done each patch is run off to P.O. to see if anything happened.

Yet, as it is, there really is nothing for me to "accomplish" in-game anymore. A new SF would be a one-off, done, might do again, but I'd be back at the been-there, done-that in a few days. If badges had any ACTUAL meaning I'd might be bothered to grind'em on more alts, but as it is, I'm hesitating on spending time getting the new ones on even ONE character (Inventions, MA bades etc --> bored & annoyed). There's no "Status" for me to achieve or anything.

Sure I could grind inf or help raise/keep the SGs status, but there's no actual competition between SGs so that's not tempting for many. Ppl probably hate me for this, but I'd love to see the SGs getting more important, to see the game get a bit more competitive (No, not thinking about pvp), but no, I have no clue how that could be done.

I loved the base raids I've been on, but without the CoP and the ability to steal something precious there's no major reason to go on base raids, and I can't see any reason whatsoever to let anyone into your base. ...but some sort of fierce rival competition would be fun. The RV idea of control points wasn't bad either, but failed @ live.

With 2 accounts stacked with mostly 50s levelling up another one isn't very tempting. Shield brute failed!

So, any other ideas? How could the game keep delivering that sense of "accomplishment" in the future?

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See I'm fairly easily bought, if they threw in some proliferation I'd be sold for a while at least. New arcs in existing zones would make me happy too, level 40-45 only new villain content would definitely cheer me up.

I'm fairly casual about SGs really, I see them as a group of friends and I don't go around bragging about my real life friends down the pub so I don't tend to get caught up in the SG rivalry (if there is any)

CoP would be a big boost for me, I wanted a real go at that, nothing to do with base raids after, but I wanted to just be able to say "I did that" and move on. There's not much eluding me in game at the moment that I want to achieve. I need to find enough free time to do an SSTF1, but then I fear what has happened to my social life if I ever get that amount of time just spare. I'd like to do an SSTF3 too probably will one day, but my drive is at a low at the moment.

Got a themed team on the go on Mondays now, which was great fun this week, but I've only logged in since to move some inf around, and invite an alt to an SG......... Sunday I'll probably ship raid again, I like the community event, shame they broke the joke/lag fest that used to be Hami, but at least we have ship raids as a replacement

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"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Issues that have lately evolved the story line.
[*] RWZ story arcs + taskforces[*] Ouroboros and their story arcs/taskforces[*] Midnighters zone/arcs[*] POSSIBLY the new taskforces in issue 15 (even though smallest issue ever)


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're holding the wrong end of the stick. While they do add to the existing plot, they don't add to each other. Instead they add to the original content, instead. While it's nice to see Riktified Hero 1 and also to craft a lost cure, might it be possible to cure Hero 1 after you defeat him? Oh... you don't want to make old content obsolete?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what you mean why would individual story threads nessicerely add to each other? I also wonder are you paying attention there us allready a link between Ouroborus and the midnighters there's also a semi link between the midnighters and the new task force in the form of the 5th column so there are links there.

As to the healing of hero1 he's not a member of the lost he's something else the wand only works on the lost of paragon earth and more work on it is required for it to affect the other rikti.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - first we find out that Nemesis is tied up with the second Rikti invasion, then he - or a version of him - comes along with a time travel breakthough, but presents it as being limited to our own lifetimes - but then the Midnighters come on the scene using the same crystals, and are able to send us way back in time without any problems at all, where we run into the 5th Column planning their return, which then leads into I15 - plus there's there's the whole Coming Storm thing too.
The Issues do add new plot elements, and they do seem to tie together in some way - even if we don't know exactly how yet

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@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

[ QUOTE ]
See I'm fairly easily bought, if they threw in some proliferation I'd be sold for a while at least. New arcs in existing zones would make me happy too

[/ QUOTE ]
I must be easily bought as well then, because that would keep me paying my subscription too.

I just want more of what we already have, specifically more arc/TF story content (at all levels), more powersets (new and proliferated) and more costume options. Sure, I'd like new zones too, but plenty of existing zones need more mission content to flesh them out story-wise.

I've seen too many MMOs ruined by system revamps and new features, so it worries me that the Devs here seem to be addicted to turning the game upside down every few issues - every welcome new feature comes with unwanted consequences to the core gameplay experience. If the Devs keep gambling like this then sooner or later a major new system addition will do to PvE what they've allegedly done to PvP already - mortally wound it - the difference being that this game lives or dies by its PvE.

I wish the Devs would just consolidate for a few issues and build on what they have - a very fun PvE MMO with a lot of replay value (and good subscriber retention because of that).

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Hmm... Lot of things

Perhaps more middle level maps. I mean, at first you can choose to go Atlas or Galaxy. Then you can choose to go Hollows or do more Kings Row. But then comes middle level maps. It would be nice to have alternative maps to for example Striga. Theres a lot of room in map. Just look at east side of Steel or west side of Indyport. Theres plenty of room

And another idea. When I saw Bricks at first time. It was wow moment. Thats the prison where we put all bad guys. But it was pretty uncool. What you say this idea? If you just go in to the prison, there may be some rebellion and you can actually see same baddies what you have defeated earlier. The great escape could be event. Point is, you can go into the prison when you want and actually see baddies there in cells and feel superior. Until...

edit. Sorry for this offtopic. My mind wandered again.

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Prunejuice is warriors drink.

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps more middle level maps. I mean, at first you can choose to go Atlas or Galaxy. Then you can choose to go Hollows or do more Kings Row. But then comes middle level maps. It would be nice to have alternative maps to for example Striga.

[/ QUOTE ]
For the L20-30 level range the parallel city zones are Talos Island and Indy Port, Terra Volta is the hazard zone, and Striga was an additional zone added for story reasons - when you consider that Faultline (15-25) and Croatoa (25-35) also overlap this level range I think the mid-levels are the best served for both quality and quantity of content in CoH (mainly due to Faultline/Striga/Croatoa, admittedly). CoV only has Sharkhead covering that entire level range (20-30), with Nerva overlapping it (25-40, though most 25-30 missions seem to be against dull Longbow anyway).

CoV is more in need of mid-level zones than CoH, though personally I'd rather see more low-level zones (newbie experience gets dull as we go through it so many times trying new characters we may not keep) and more high level zones (more stuff to do once level-capped) on both sides.

[ QUOTE ]
Theres a lot of room in map. Just look at east side of Steel or west side of Indyport. Theres plenty of room

[/ QUOTE ]
Siren's Call is east of Steel - if you hover your mouse over the in-game map there the nametag shows up.

[ QUOTE ]
And another idea. When I saw Bricks at first time. It was wow moment. Thats the prison where we put all bad guys. But it was pretty uncool. What you say this idea? If you just go in to the prison, there may be some rebellion and you can actually see same baddies what you have defeated earlier. The great escape could be event. Point is, you can go into the prison when you want and actually see baddies there in cells and feel superior. Until...

[/ QUOTE ]
Having a prison riot as an event in Brickstown would be fun. I'd like to see more "events" in all outdoor zones (like Steel's fires, Skyway's raves, the Ghost Ship, etc.) - they add atmosphere to a zone. The Hollows and Faultline could have earthquakes that briefly shake your screen and cause Minions of Igneous to spawn out of the deeper parts of the zone and move towards areas where players are gathered. The same thing could be done in Sharkhead with Slag Golems.

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