A sense of accomplishment?

Hum, agree, villains need some luvin', but not sure I'd want it wasted on the lower levels. I autocomplete my way through 1-5 pretty much nowadays, some go the mission architect route.

Level 5-20 could do with some more variety in missions, but you get out of P.O. so fast anyway it's a waste to build a completely new zone for it.

A lvl 35 store in Nerva would be nice since it's a ->35 zone and I prefer the Nerva arcs. St Martial is just plain dull imho. While the mid level could use some variety, I'd still rather see the devs concentrate on end-game stuff. I wanna play my 50s. Why did I waste all that time, energy and inf on purpl'in' up if I don't get to do some fun with'em?

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Hum, agree, villains need some luvin', but not sure I'd want it wasted on the lower levels. I autocomplete my way through 1-5 pretty much nowadays, some go the mission architect route.

Level 5-20 could do with some more variety in missions, but you get out of P.O. so fast anyway it's a waste to build a completely new zone for it.

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Not everyone wants to autocomplete their way through, or play MA 1-5 though

There are 17 contacts in CoV between levels 1 and 20 across Mercy/Oakes/Cap, but because of enforced choices (Kalinda/Mongoose or Burke/Creed, can only do The Radio at 10-15 if you did Bocor at 5-10, etc) you actually have less variety/options than it sounds.

Now imagine a L1-20 zone, with about 10-12 contacts, each with an arc of 3-4 missions (and maybe a few one-offs), but let all of them scale throughout the level range of the zone so that you could do their missions at any point between L1 and L20. Now have a taskmaster NPC that can hand out quick simple tasks (shop heist, outdoor hunts, etc) and after doing 3 tasks you can do a mayhem/safeguard to open up a choice from the full list of those arc contacts. And when you finish a contact their referral would also let you pick from the full list of contacts you hadn't done yet. So you could pick your own path through the contacts.

That would give lots more variety for all low levels, lots of choice as to which contacts/arcs you do on different characters, and would force the devs into scaling many of the lowbie factions from L1 all the way to L20 (which would help out MA writers creating lowbie arcs too).

After all, we know the Devs can scale a zone for 15 levels (RWZ, Nerva, etc), and that there are arcs in the game that scale a very wide level range (the Midnight Club access arc on blueside scales from L10-50 iirc), so there are precedents.

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A lvl 35 store in Nerva would be nice since it's a ->35 zone and I prefer the Nerva arcs. St Martial is just plain dull imho. While the mid level could use some variety, I'd still rather see the devs concentrate on end-game stuff. I wanna play my 50s. Why did I waste all that time, energy and inf on purpl'in' up if I don't get to do some fun with'em?

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I find Nerva's L25-30 contacts/arcs very dull, but I like most of the L30-40 ones. I like St Martial... except for Hardcase - a condescending hero who keeps sending you up against the most tactically/visually dull faction in the game - I'll pass. Otherwise I mostly agree with you, having IO'd up all of my 50s (and just purpled-up my widow)

Why is it that I always find myself agreeing with you Val? Is it because everything you say is very reasonable and resonates well with my own wishes and desires. Or are you psychic and forcing my mind to agree with all you say.

The second one seems more likely

I just hope he doesn't ask for money *quickley burries his savings in the garden*

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Why is it that I always find myself agreeing with you Val? Is it because everything you say is very reasonable and resonates well with my own wishes and desires. Or are you psychic and forcing my mind to agree with all you say.

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I'm afraid it's both, old chap.

Do you have enough carrier bags to put the cash in? Or should I bring some bags when I come to collect it?

Imagine that... "Someone" dropped a pointless one-liner and the thread is derailed.

I hope we never ever get animated hair!

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I hope we never ever get animated hair!

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We will - one day, we will - I know it

Dream on GG, we'll be getting power customization before animated hair.

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Dream on GG, we'll be getting power customization before animated hair.

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That's true - but it doesn't mean we'll never get animated hair

What we really need are afro combs

Dragging the thread back on topic:

my take on having a sense of acomplishment.

To have a sense of actually doing something and having an effect you should, through your actions, prevent a negative change or enact a positive change.
then, you can look at the area and feel a sense of "I was involved in that"...

How does this translate to CoX (I'll concentrate on CoH but that doesnt mean it cant be transferred to CoV)?

1. The safety of the citizens.
Atlas Park is full of citizens going about their business. Why? they feel safe (ok a lot are getting mugged but I'll get to that). Also, there are a lot of heroes around. coincidence? possibly, but what if its not, what if the presence of heroes actually has an effect on the numbers of citizens wandering about? More hero activity = more citizens = more contacts (I'll get to this) = more businesses (I'll get to this too)

in game terms:

the more street sweeping / radio missions / state-based door missions (will get to these) performed in an area, the more likely citizens are to appear and go about their normal business. Obviously this would not work as well for areas like Boomtown which are a kip anyway and dont really have a place for civvies (but you could have construction worker details that appear in an area to start clearing rubble) - if you keep reading, I'll get to scenery a little later.

mechanics:
a ticker based system. for example: if there have been more than 2000 arrests in the last 24 hours (arbitrary numbers, not to be taken as a set idea) then the safety rating of the zone goes up by one. At different safety ratings events get triggered:

sample safety rating scale:

0 - the place is a hole. only hardcore heroes should go here. (all mobs are +2 levels over their normal zone average)
1 - chaos rules the streets , citizens stay indoors or leave completely. Shops close down. wentworths closes. (villains +1 level)
2 - open fighting: villains walk the streets unopposed. inter-faction fighting damages the area around, new leaders start to emerge, police stop patrolling. PPD hardsuits defend banks and businesses.
3 - there's crime, but there's also police patrolling. (this is the current state) - shops are open for business
4 - Very few villains are seen on the streets and of those its only really petty crime. Street vendors can trade safely
5 - utopia has been achieved! no crime. its safe to walk around. More street vendors. Only missions are door missions

Now, I'm not necessarily talking about the whole area. I would think more about the sub zones we have currently. Atlas park has green , yellow and red zones. Add in new colours: white (5) , blue, green, yellow , red, black (0) and have them correspond to the scale. That way, AP starts with a section that is already quite overrun (the industrial area) and in danger of tipping into the realm of chaotic.

Here's the fun bit:
Zones spread. if a black zone (0) neighbours a green zone (3) , then the ticks built up from heroic actions degrade at a faster rate and actually go into the minuses. eventually, if not countered, the green zone will drop down to yellow classification, then red, then black. Similarly, "good" zones will decrease the degradation rate and can positively influence the zones bordering them.

safe zones: Strong Hero presences could create safe zones. the centre of AP for example could be set to never drop below green (3)


some more detail:

Shops: these are the businesses that we have already. the Tech shop , the Magic box shops etc. If the zone gets too bad, these close down and stop trading (at level 1 - red)

street vendors: these are more like a cross between contacts and wenties. they only sell what has been sold to them so their stock is pretty random. They buy for a fixed rate and sell for the buying price + random % giving a variation in price and the possibility of a real deal. They would stock, Insps, Enhancements, salvage (not IOs though but they could stock basic IO recipies that have a fixed purchase price)

Citizens:
Black (0) - no citizens at all
red (1) - only the odd citizen and these are victims/hostages
yellow (2) - a few citizens, usually running away , light traffic
green (3) - citizens go about their business. medium traffic
blue (4) - citizens stroll and have fun, some backalleys have muggings and loitering gangs
White (5) - no crime.


Missions (counts toward the level of the zone):
5- missions involve travelling to a neighbouring area and helping out
4 - minor hunt missions (back alleys) nothing too taxing
3 - normal hunt missions, the odd door mission to break up a rising gang leader (a lieutenant),
2 - hunt missions , door missions to stop an established gang leader (boss), stop a robbery, travel to a neighbouring better zone to stop a robbery, stop incursion from a worse zone
1- same as 2 but boss is up to EB level
0 - fewer contacts, hunt missions, mini arc to take on gangs, local big bad leaders are random AV level bad guys, door missions that can have ambushes, roving bands of hunting mobs (patrols)


The Cityscape: (possibly not viable with the current engine)
As a zones security rating improves, so workmen move in and start repairing. PPD start patrolling etc. If a zone stays in its current level for a period of time, the area starts to look better. rubble is cleared from an area and building starts (scaffolding goes up ) eventually a building is erected and has a chance to become a shop or some other utility.


This way, its not just the Devs that revamp/overhaul an area, its the players. the Devs just enable it.

players are encouraged to expand their areas of activity, not just through mission arcs but through an overall goal to improve an area and make it more player friendly.

There would be variety between servers. Ap might be completely white on Union but only have a single green island of safety in the middle of a black nightmare on Defiant (just an example, not saying anything about the players on the respective servers). Boomtown could be anarchy on Union but have a thriving and built up community on Defiant etc.

There wouldnt be a wentworths or AE building in every zone (or a university for that matter). It would depend on the state of the zone it is situated in. spend all your time in an AE building and the zone might deteriorate so badly that the place gets shut down because you've been neglecting the real world around you!

Supergroups could be set up as "the Atlas Park protectors" that specialise in raising the security rating of Atlas Park

The RWZ could actually be a shifting battleground and not as static as it is now. it would evolve with the Mothership as a permanent black zone and the Base as a permanent Blue, each spreading their influence but if left alone, the black zones would dominate.

New mission types: Street missions given by random people
escort citizen Betty to the nearest green zone
Find Citizen Fred's son who went wandering into the red zone
Rescue Dolly, the police chief's daughter who has been kidnapped by some faction in the yellow zoen and is being ransomed (door mission)
clue found after defeating some hellions leading to their bosses hideout (door mission)
Rescue PPD squad under siege (timed outdoor mission given when you help a PPD unit against some wandering mobs)


anyway. my .02 euro. I dont think any of it is likely or even possible but no harm in saying it

While I like your like your idea I have a couple of issues.

Firstly the nieghbourhood colours let players know how dificult the mobs there scale to the zone (green zone has the lowest level villains whilst red have the highest). It lets people who want to sweep the streets know wheres the best place for them to go, your colouring system would make finding an appropriate area to sweep take longer as the player(s) in question will have to run around looking for appropriate enemies.

Secondly I can see people being annoyed by bumping into EB's and AV's on their way to missions if they're incapable of handling them, but also being anoyed that they'd be unable to shop becuase the shops are closed ect.

Also I personaly feel that, unless the arrests made was a low number, CoX does not have enough players to keep the crime level down in most zones.

possibly worded it wrong. I never intended that you bump inot EBs or AVs as you wander around for a mission. they would be door missions where you are sent to stop the boss of a faction, maybe after a cleanup arc in the area. The EB / AV would be randomly generated (but still fitting in with the faction) and given a semi-random name to add to its uniqueness (and to the characters sense of achievement in defeating it)

Additionally, the defeat of the leader could add massively to the ratign of the zone , making it less likely that another EB or Av mission would be there until the area reverted (if it reverts) thus adding even more to the achievement.

Amount of arrests etc, as I said, I just used arbitrary numbers but I do take your point about not having enough heroes to cover it. that is certainly a possibility but then, that server woul dbe considered harder than another server that has everything under control. players looking for a challenge would start to play on the "harder" server and over time (a long period)the player activity would shift, levelling out the cover.. it may even overbalance and cause the whole process to start again just in reverse

as for not being able to shop: well, they are heroes. their primary focus should be on stopping crime because it is happening and not avoiding it so they can get to the shop. If a shop closes (and it has to be pretty bad for that to happen) they should feel motivated to clean up the area until the shop re-opens or, alternatively, go to a shop somewhere else!

current colours: I also see your point on this however I dont think the change would be as large as you might think.

white: no point in street hunting. quite scarce and if they are there they are low level minor criminals

Blue: hunting is a past time but it is a hunt. there isnt a villain on every street corner.

Green: hunting is good. a good few villains around. level is the zone average. (AP hellions 1-3)

Yellow: hunting can be quite dangerous. villains are middle of the average zone range (AP hellions 3-5)

Red: hunting is dangerous. dont count on much support and be prepared for the possibility of being overrun. (Ap hellions 4-7)

Black: hunting would be very much appreciated as this place is almost a lost cause. villains are quite high level (AP hellions 6-10 ) and very aggressive....

If anyhtign I think it would make street hunting easier to perform as not only are teh mobs more frequent in the lawless zones but also they are of higher levels which gives a better return though does involve more risk.

in addition to the arrest rate, the level could be affected by the number and level of heroes logged out (and so "on patrol" ) in that area.

that would help keep things under control and not instantly turn to mire.

I think following the in-place con system, grey should be useless noob zones, green is stronger, then blue, white is average, yellow, orange, red are inreasingly dangerous, then purple.

Consistency ftw! Although how would this work for villains? I guess you couuld join the Rippers (R.I.P) and clean up the mean streets.

Just thought of one other issue. What about red side? You can't expect me to buy that increased villain(player) activity is going to reduce other villain(NPC) activity.

Edit: beaten by the razor (D'oh! )

well redside the local order is generally imposed by Arachnos (initial missions are for arachnos against the snakes and infected)

the areas are not necessarily areas of quiet and niceness but instead areas where arachnos is dominating the opposition (the mob, the snakes, longbow etc).

On Nerva: the longbow fortress could be perma black
On cap: the walled area could be perma white (it being an arachnos stronghold)

etc.

Ok, its not perfect but a bit of work could see it right redside would always be more difficult because not only do the players have the locals to contend with but every arachnos soldier you bump into also wants to introduce you to the business end of his shotgun! imho: if you are an ally of arachnos you should at least have some arachnos mobs that dont want you dead....

I do agree with your point but I think this is more indicative of the lack of definition for villain players. as things stand, they are pretty much heroes of a slightly redish hue rather than truly evil people.

@ razor : the colour grades I used were arbitrary. it would be the ranking that would matter. the only reason I used those colours was to give a better mental image of how Atlas park for example would look.

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The Cityscape: (possibly not viable with the current engine)
As a zones security rating improves, so workmen move in and start repairing. PPD start patrolling etc. If a zone stays in its current level for a period of time, the area starts to look better. rubble is cleared from an area and building starts (scaffolding goes up ) eventually a building is erected and has a chance to become a shop or some other utility.


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Go check out Recluse's Victory

the current game engine can handle morphing scenery and lighting changes,a s well as chaning mobs - so tweaking the engine would just make this even easier to add to the game.

I'd also like them to add GMs or some sort of event to each zone, and failing to tackle it would result in that zone losing services for a while - like if the Paladin in Kings Row wasn't dealt with, the WW there would shut down until he was defeated.
As well as that, the scenery would morph to reflect the GM rampage.

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The Cityscape: (possibly not viable with the current engine)
As a zones security rating improves, so workmen move in and start repairing. PPD start patrolling etc. If a zone stays in its current level for a period of time, the area starts to look better. rubble is cleared from an area and building starts (scaffolding goes up ) eventually a building is erected and has a chance to become a shop or some other utility.


[/ QUOTE ]

Go check out Recluse's Victory

the current game engine can handle morphing scenery and lighting changes,a s well as chaning mobs - so tweaking the engine would just make this even easier to add to the game.

I'd also like them to add GMs or some sort of event to each zone, and failing to tackle it would result in that zone losing services for a while - like if the Paladin in Kings Row wasn't dealt with, the WW there would shut down until he was defeated.
As well as that, the scenery would morph to reflect the GM rampage.

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So what you're suggesting is we can let KR become a second Boomtown?

I really like the idea for one very simple reason: Our actions make a difference in the actual game world.

Compared to other games it seems that's the main selling point of EVE and some other games. I'm currently playing inFAMOUS on the PS3, and "winning" my first zone was very rewarding. I've heard Tabula Rasa players talk about simiar experiences.

Unfortunately pvp/RV seems pretty much broken in terms of player activities EU side and I can't see that getting started again. Sad, because I really liked the idea of battles raging back and forth. It just didn't seem to work very well. The original Battlefield game is still my #1 favourite ever. Fighting for those control points (wet, dreamy gaze)...

...Oh, lost myself for a while there.

Anyway, with some serious thought and tweaking, I think this was is the best idea presented by a player so far. Thanks!

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The Cityscape: (possibly not viable with the current engine)
As a zones security rating improves, so workmen move in and start repairing. PPD start patrolling etc. If a zone stays in its current level for a period of time, the area starts to look better. rubble is cleared from an area and building starts (scaffolding goes up ) eventually a building is erected and has a chance to become a shop or some other utility.


[/ QUOTE ]

Go check out Recluse's Victory

the current game engine can handle morphing scenery and lighting changes,a s well as chaning mobs - so tweaking the engine would just make this even easier to add to the game.

I'd also like them to add GMs or some sort of event to each zone, and failing to tackle it would result in that zone losing services for a while - like if the Paladin in Kings Row wasn't dealt with, the WW there would shut down until he was defeated.
As well as that, the scenery would morph to reflect the GM rampage.

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So what you're suggesting is we can let KR become a second Boomtown?

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Well, there's still more to do there than in Boomtown, so I think there'd be enough players willing to defeat the Paladin and restore order

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The Cityscape: (possibly not viable with the current engine)
As a zones security rating improves, so workmen move in and start repairing. PPD start patrolling etc. If a zone stays in its current level for a period of time, the area starts to look better. rubble is cleared from an area and building starts (scaffolding goes up ) eventually a building is erected and has a chance to become a shop or some other utility.


[/ QUOTE ]

Go check out Recluse's Victory

the current game engine can handle morphing scenery and lighting changes,a s well as chaning mobs - so tweaking the engine would just make this even easier to add to the game.

I'd also like them to add GMs or some sort of event to each zone, and failing to tackle it would result in that zone losing services for a while - like if the Paladin in Kings Row wasn't dealt with, the WW there would shut down until he was defeated.
As well as that, the scenery would morph to reflect the GM rampage.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what you're suggesting is we can let KR become a second Boomtown?

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Well, there's still more to do there than in Boomtown, so I think there'd be enough players willing to defeat the Paladin and restore order

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Damn, there goes another evil plan. I'll have to go back to the evil drawing board when I'm finished leveling my scrapper