Posi did say on test that the possibility is always there but it's not something they want to do until their data mining shows equal inf gain on both sides. Not greatly in blue sides favour like it is now.
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well tbh that wont changed the market is so biased towards heroes its believable due to the fact most ppl play heores rather than vills
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Unless they unify the currency, it'll be nigh on impossible to be fair so I doubt it. They did however say they were looking into it.
Even with a currency exchange rate, it'll be difficult to maintain a consistent rate and a strain on their mining to factor all the things that alter the rate.
Fury
Posi mentioned (or someone else did, i can't fully remember) to give villains higher rewards. Something that, if kept balanced and reasonable could work.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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Posi mentioned (or someone else did, i can't fully remember) to give villains higher rewards. Something that, if kept balanced and reasonable could work.
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If it's from the birthday EU test server appearance, then this is the exchange re: combined markets from my chatlogs:
* on Combined CoH/CoV Markets:
04-28-2009 18:51:58 [Local] Positron: Combined Markets: Maybe, farrr in the future... when the datamines don't have a HUGE discrepency in available inf on either side.
04-28-2009 18:52:55 [Local] Positron: If people are willing to pay 200m on heroside, and you cant afford 60m villainside, you definitely cant afford 200m
04-28-2009 18:53:53 [Local] Judgement Dave: i sth ediscrepency in INF earned to date or in rate of INF earning... the former could be addressed by a 1-time boost, the latter by adjusting rewards on 1 side....
04-28-2009 18:54:31 [Local] Positron: My brain just broke trying to figure out how to make rewards on one side work diff than the other
So as I read it, Posi actually seemed to state that he couldn't see how to give villains higher rewards... Doesn't mean it's impossible by any means.
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That's the exact thing i was referring to and the point i was making.
If done correctly that could be a good solution.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
It would be an exceptionally good solution, the one problem being how the reward tables are set up.
It is likely that they are set up with set values for Underling, Minion, Lieutenant, Boss, Elite Boss, Archvillain/Hero. One of these values would be Inf rewarded, this means that they would need two copies of this table, and two copies of each villain group to reference this table.
All well and good, until you take into account Co-Op zones, which group do you use? Use the Villains version and it becomes hero farm heaven, use the hero versions and villains wouldn't set foot in Co-Op zones because of the lack of rewards.
Then we get the scenario where they mix up the groups when creating a new mission and suddenly heroes are getting the Villains rewards table and the farmers all converge on the mission.
There's too much that could go wrong with it for it to be feasible.
hold still like a good horse . . .
to echo other posts on different topics . . .
"if it aint broke dont fix it."
it doesn't matter whether you merge or not. supply and demand dictates the price IM humble O
With the exception of a few groups, villains fight the same kind of enemies as the heroes does. And the same mobs would be giving the same rewords on both sides. That leaves 4 reasons for the differences in rewords.
1) Hero ATs are simply more efficient over all, and can go throe the content quicker.
2) The few enemy groups and mobs unique to villains gives worse rewords then the rest of the groups.
3) The groups that give good rewords are under represented villian side.
4) The rewords of the groups on both sides are the same, but the difference is in group sizes.
I think nr 4 is the most likely cause.
There are INF / XP bonuses for grouping right? So that a mob gives more total rewords for a team of 8 group then for a solo player. Not to mention that larger groups can plow throe missions faster, as well as get more Bosses, EBs, and AVs/Heroes.
And with Villain side being less populated, the average team will be smaller and there will be more solo play.
I have to say, I don't really understand why the markets can't just be merged as they are. Prices aren't generally all that different on redside and blueside markets, and where there is a difference, redside is usually higher, especially at the top end of expensive sets. If anyone benefits from a market merge, it would be villains, as I assume that prices would tend to settle out more towards the blueside range.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
CoV came along in (with) issue 6. The veteran heroes had a 5 issue head start on amassing obscene bank accounts.
And until issue 9 they didn't really have anything to spend it on.
(None of this is from first hand experience -- I joined just after i9, but it's what I've heard elsewhere.) Point is it's not all about how much you earn now, Assailant, the inequality they're seeing in their datamines has been there a while.
I'm not sure, though, why an imbalance in total inf is a reason not to merge the markets. If people haven't spent their huge blueside bank balances in the last two years, why would they suddenly start spending them if the markets merged?
Market merging would also tend to even out the amount of inf red and blueside by making it much easier to transfer inf between sides.
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Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
If they don't merge the markets before the expansion they may as well with it. As after that it will be too easy to just go rogue and take you umptean billion inf across the divide and spend spend spend.
From the Rogue expansion, we haven't yet be informed abount any penalties for joining the other faction. I'm not confirming that there are penalties, but I predict that there is a good chance of a few.
I imagine there could possibly be a inf penalty or badge penalty. Anyway, my main point is that I think they will probably include some penaltys, and that one of them will probably be a inf penalty.
And this is if they don't merge WW and the BM.
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From the Rogue expansion, we haven't yet be informed abount any penalties for joining the other faction. I'm not confirming that there are penalties, but I predict that there is a good chance of a few.
I imagine there could possibly be a inf penalty or badge penalty. Anyway, my main point is that I think they will probably include some penaltys, and that one of them will probably be a inf penalty.
And this is if they don't merge WW and the BM.
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It'll flop if they have too many restrictions, just look at the fuss over some easy to get badges. If they stop you from transfering over with cash or some sort you immediatly limit the amount of people who will actually swap. I know I for one would have to give it serious consideration of some characters.
If they for instance stop you taking a complete slotted build over with you so you can't respec and sell once there, people would get to the other side and be unable to slot up.
It might of course be a penalty 15% or something of your cash... but IDK I'm reckoning they'll just merge the markets after a while with the villains getting better drops.
Another 'off the wall' suggestion could be to merge the markets in secret one day and drop X infamy on all current villains - Where X = (current difference in 'spending power') divided by (total number of villains)
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I'm not sure, though, why an imbalance in total inf is a reason not to merge the markets. If people haven't spent their huge blueside bank balances in the last two years, why would they suddenly start spending them if the markets merged?
[/ QUOTE ]Unfortunately it is not that simple. You see, people did spend their huge blueside bank balance... but apart from a small fraction that disappeared via Wentworth fee and other expenses the money went straight onto the bank accounts of other blueside players who were not necessarily poorer than the ones spending the inf.
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Market merging would also tend to even out the amount of inf red and blueside by making it much easier to transfer inf between sides.
[/ QUOTE ]I do not know the numbers from the datamining, but I am quite sure that if they had merged the markets in the beginning there would have been quite some time without many villains getting to buy anything worthwhile because of the average hero being able to afford much higher bids. So, for that time villains would have been reduced to a quasi-sellers-only status which is not so great for villains looking to improve their builds with IOs etc.
However, it has been some time since then. Villains have not been lazy and earned some nice inf accounts of their own, so that the difference in percent of inf owned should not be all that big anymore. Add to that the fact that many players are very eager to switch sides and we can safely assume that with Going Rogue inf should be divided much more equally between blueside and redside.
In my opinion not merging the markets does not make much sense beyond that point, so I expect a market merge then or a short time after that.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Maybe I'm missing something but if the markets were merged would that not mean that villains would potentionaly get more per sale on the BM and that would help even out the hero/villain inf split?
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From the Rogue expansion, we haven't yet be informed abount any penalties for joining the other faction. I'm not confirming that there are penalties, but I predict that there is a good chance of a few.
I imagine there could possibly be a inf penalty or badge penalty. Anyway, my main point is that I think they will probably include some penaltys, and that one of them will probably be a inf penalty.
And this is if they don't merge WW and the BM.
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It'll flop if they have too many restrictions, just look at the fuss over some easy to get badges. If they stop you from transfering over with cash or some sort you immediatly limit the amount of people who will actually swap. I know I for one would have to give it serious consideration of some characters.
If they for instance stop you taking a complete slotted build over with you so you can't respec and sell once there, people would get to the other side and be unable to slot up.
It might of course be a penalty 15% or something of your cash... but IDK I'm reckoning they'll just merge the markets after a while with the villains getting better drops.
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The obvious solution is to merge the markets, but if they decide not to, or they can't, there is another option.
Hero has 1mil influence. He goes rogue. In Rogue Isles he has 0 infamy and 1mil influence. Infamy can only be spent in the Rogue Isles and influence only spent in Paragon. Once the hero returns to Paragon he will have ?infamy and 1mil influence. It's irrelevant how much infamy he has, because infamy can only be spent in the Rogue Isles, but he has as much influence as he left with.
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I just think it's very dangerous to assume things/theorise about big game altering changes like this when we have absolutely no info at all to go on.
People will get ideas stuck in their heads and build up their hope for a certain scenario and then get their panties all in a knot when those expectations aren't met, crying about betrayal and broken promisses by the devs while they go along.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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From the Rogue expansion, we haven't yet be informed abount any penalties for joining the other faction. I'm not confirming that there are penalties, but I predict that there is a good chance of a few.
I imagine there could possibly be a inf penalty or badge penalty. Anyway, my main point is that I think they will probably include some penaltys, and that one of them will probably be a inf penalty.
And this is if they don't merge WW and the BM.
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It'll flop if they have too many restrictions, just look at the fuss over some easy to get badges. If they stop you from transfering over with cash or some sort you immediatly limit the amount of people who will actually swap. I know I for one would have to give it serious consideration of some characters.
If they for instance stop you taking a complete slotted build over with you so you can't respec and sell once there, people would get to the other side and be unable to slot up.
It might of course be a penalty 15% or something of your cash... but IDK I'm reckoning they'll just merge the markets after a while with the villains getting better drops.
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The obvious solution is to merge the markets, but if they decide not to, or they can't, there is another option.
Hero has 1mil influence. He goes rogue. In Rogue Isles he has 0 infamy and 1mil influence. Infamy can only be spent in the Rogue Isles and influence only spent in Paragon. Once the hero returns to Paragon he will have ?infamy and 1mil influence. It's irrelevant how much infamy he has, because infamy can only be spent in the Rogue Isles, but he has as much influence as he left with.
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Doesn't work, because you could still use "going rogue" to smuggle enhancements and recipes from red side to blue side and make a killing that way.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Doesn't work, because you could still use "going rogue" to smuggle enhancements and recipes from red side to blue side and make a killing that way.
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If you did that then you'd go bust. Stuff is almost always more expensive Red side. (All the stuff I trade anyway.) There's less to buy Red side as well. This is not a coincidence of course. It's rarity that drives up prices. :~)
I really can't see how a market merger would hurt Red side.
The really expensive stuff is much more expensive blue side. There simply isn't enough total inf redside for prices to rise as high.
A lot of stuff which is cheep blueside is more expensive redside because of rarety of supply, but that aint what would be smuggled.
I really should do something about this signature.
In the spirit of science, I though of some stuff that I know is expensive and checked current prices. I only checked crafted enhancements and I averaged the last 5 items. I didn't look at any PvP stuff. For Numina's etc I checked the highest and the lowest level items.
In the vast majority of cases, prices are higher red side.
Only two were higher blue side. The only one where you could make a profit buying red side was Hecatomb Dam/Rech/Acc and that was something of an illusion caused by one very expensive purchase.
The results were:-
Luck of the Gambler +Rech
Blue Side 91M, 79M
Red Side 110M, 120M
Numina's +Regen +Recovery
Blue Side 46M, 69M
Red Side 64M, 100M
Miracle +Recovery
Blue Side 73M, 100M
Red Side 150M, 100M
Hecatomb Dam/Rech/Acc
Blue Side 217M, Red Side 180M
Hecatomb Dam
Blue Side 110M, Red Side 147M
Apocalypse Dam/Rech
Blue Side 110M, Red Side 161M
Apocalypse Dam
Blue side 125M, Red Side 117M
Guessing now with the new expansion coming out, this can only mean that we are getting a market merge at some point in the future.
Discuss.