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i just think the company running it have gone from being mediocre to dire.
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I agree again NCSoft have never really seemed to get their act together.
the saw that there was room for massive expansion in the western MMO market, and when they first entered the western market they did so in a big way, setting up a large and unweildy collection of companies spread across the globe.
They spent loads on development, even pouring money into projects that looked like failing, but completly failed to advertise them. As a result, they completly failed to capitalise on the exsepansion, and where left looking dazzed and confused with an organisation stucture designed to handle a much larger market share.
They produce a number of number of products with very similar target audiances, causing them to compete with themselves as much as with other companies.
I think a lot of this is because the company top brass is to korean. they think gamers play in social spaces, so word of mouth is effective marketing. Whereas they actually play mostly at home. They think people like to form specialised cliques, not play what everyone else is playing.
It's a shame, because they have some good people working for them lower down the buisiness.
I really should do something about this signature.
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WoW still sells, this dont, thats the difference.
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Because NC has failed to aggressively market the game, that's why.
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Sadly i got to agree with you there.
This lot missed the advertising boat years ago, i think advertising it now a waste of money for the return they are going to get.
They should have grabbed the customers while they had a monopoly on the super hero game market.
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I agree that they missed the FIRST advertising boat years ago, but now, with competition not far away, NOW is a perfect opportunity to tell people about a superhero MMO that's ALREADY on the market. They don't HAVE to wait ages for something that's not out yet, they can be a hero NOW.
It's not often a game has a second window of opportunity, but CoH is getting one, and NC West aren't jumping on it... again... 
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I actually heard someone in the local game asking when the Marvel MMO will be coming out as they want to do the whole hero thing. I butted in and told them about CoH, they hadn't heard of it, that's the staff or the customer. So how come people know about a game that isn't even out, but don't know about one that has been around a while?
With the recent increase in superhero likeable ratings I found it amazing that there wasn't some magazine ads for CoX.
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But anyway what I said still stands even if it will be a download client for the EU....which version will it be.
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What would be the point? It'll download exactly the same way the game does now... No ISO image or anything like that; just a small updater that then downloads the rest of the game. You can already pay extra for the booster packs, so the Architect Edition download will be no different to doing something like buying the Mac Edition, really...
I'd have bought a physical box, as I really really want updated discs, but a download only? Waste of money, as I'm not really interested in the magic booster pack, none of my chars are magic.
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Yes I know...but what your talking about is adding a code to an EU account that already exists , I'm talking about a brand new player. Will they get the CohUpdater.EU.exe or the CohUpdater.US.exe
Currently it's actually rather tough for a new player to get an EU account anyway....google and the other search engines don't help at all , tap city of heroes into any of them and your taken to the US site where you can purchase the US client and make a US account.
I get what you're saying there Robbie. I kind of feel the same way. WOW is still selling not only because they push it but because it has grown to the point were if someone wants to enter the MMO market to try it out, that is the one they go to.
Everyone knows about it. It's so popular that South Park dedicated a whole episode to it. To be brutally honest, COH just doesn't compare. Even the Lord Of The Rings franchise couldn't compete with it and look at how popular that is. Hell, it virtually started (and definitely popularised) the whole genre.
If you're going to look at COH in terms of marketing then you need to look at the other MMOs. Games of a similar age to COH (and older ones) are following a similar marketing pattern so it makes sense that COH is doing the same. That doesn't mean that those games aren't still popular with the playerbase though, and they do get the odd subscribers as well.
Until a friend of mine actually plopped the CoH Good vs Evil box in front of me a couple of years ago, i'd never heard of it..
Help Dirk Knightly the freelance detective solve a case in Arc ID:368097
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Until a friend of mine actually plopped the CoH Good vs Evil box in front of me a couple of years ago, i'd never heard of it..
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..and from that moment on...you were magically bound to your monitor screen until the end of time lol.
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Yes I know...but what your talking about is adding a code to an EU account that already exists , I'm talking about a brand new player. Will they get the CohUpdater.EU.exe or the CohUpdater.US.exe
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But that's exactly what it IS going to be. A code to apply to an existing account, or an updater which will download the game for you, either EU or US depending on what you choose, exactly as it is now.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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I'd guess the only reason Sister Psyche gets used more is that her costume is more revealing than Ms Liberty's.
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I thought American men loved red hair. Jean Grey - Red hair, Mary Jane - Red hair, what I've personally been told about american men by english women with red hair who went out there, just adds up.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I utterly disagree with pretty much the lot of you.
You seem to have this idea that if they spent a fortune on getting boxes on shelves and advertising that the game will suddenly get tens, or hundreds, of thousands of new players.
It would, of course, get some new players but the only relevant question is would it get enough new players to justify the huge cost of doing all that?
And in the EU, I'm personally inclined to think that it would not. Many of you, apparently, think it would, but those are just opinions based on our perceptions. NCSoft, on the other hand, have actual marketing data and research. They're far more likely to be right than you, or I, are.
You do have to spend money to make money - but you have to spend it intelligently. There's a point of diminishing returns, after which spending more money does not make you money. It loses it. I would prefer to see them not doing that personally.
And that doesn't mean the game is doomed by the way.
All just IMO of course.
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In all honesty I think it would be better to just make a few deals with various PC gaming mags and bundle a 14 day trial disc..or even just a trail code with them...it's a hell of a lot more cost effective.
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I utterly disagree with pretty much the lot of you.
You seem to have this idea that if they spent a fortune on getting boxes on shelves and advertising that the game will suddenly get tens, or hundreds, of thousands of new players.
It would, of course, get some new players but the only relevant question is would it get enough new players to justify the huge cost of doing all that?
And in the EU, I'm personally inclined to think that it would not. Many of you, apparently, think it would, but those are just opinions based on our perceptions. NCSoft, on the other hand, have actual marketing data and research. They're far more likely to be right than you, or I, are.
You do have to spend money to make money - but you have to spend it intelligently. There's a point of diminishing returns, after which spending more money does not make you money. It loses it. I would prefer to see them not doing that personally.
And that doesn't mean the game is doomed by the way.
All just IMO of course.
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I think Robbies got it right, the point of diminishing returns has come for advertising this game.
There it is again.... diminishing returns... PvP zone....shop shelf.... i can see a pattern forming here...
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Currently it's actually rather tough for a new player to get an EU account anyway....google and the other search engines don't help at all , tap city of heroes into any of them and your taken to the US site where you can purchase the US client and make a US account.
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If I google "City of Heroes" here in the UK, the top of the list returned is uk.cityofheroes.com. The US site comes second. It's easy to follows links from the first to make an EU account, but what's interesting is that the familiar EU and UK flag icons have been removed from the US page, making it difficult to navigate away from there to the appropriate EU page.
Anyway, like FFM I would have really liked new disks When was the last time? Issue 7?
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Anyway, like FFM I would have really liked new disks When was the last time? Issue 7?
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Which coincidently is when i joined the game 
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Until a friend of mine actually plopped the CoH Good vs Evil box in front of me a couple of years ago, I'd never heard of it..
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Ditto, I too discovered it quite by accident.
NCsoft's continued predisposal to virtual MMO-site advertising and marketing would of made no difference to me whatsoever if the scenario was run again today and a 'me' from three or so years ago may still not have heard of this superhero MMORPG. I wasn't as active on the Internet as I am these days but I was still massively into SuperHeroes and product on the shelf and advertised would of grabbed me (as fortunately and coincidentally as it did back then when I happened upon it on exchanging a game in my local Gamestation).
Don't even get me started on how the company fails to promote a product as effectively as Blizzard does when in this time in cinema culture when there is a massive resurgence in the SuperHero genre and fantasy is running second re:film output.
We've had the first age of that (post Spiderman 2002) up till now and there will be a 2nd resurgence of the genre with all of the Marvel (and DC) films coming when The Avengers films are strung together in 2010. If NCsoft/NCwest fails to capitalise on that resurgence in the genres popularity then with the number One SuperHero MMO (with 5 years backstory and history) and a relatively weak Champions product and newly launched DCUO then I absolutely despair. 
/em,sarcasm on
... still, Its not all doom and gloom, at least Jeff Strain has got himself a nice new apartment and hobby blogging about it. 
/em,sarcasm off
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Don't even get me started on how the company fails to promote a product as effectively as Blizzard does when in this time in cinema culture when there is a massive resurgence in the SuperHero genre and fantasy is running second re:film output.
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Film popularity doesn't mean huge success even for directly related games. As Mr_Marvellous mentioned earlier, Lord of the Rings Online can't compete with WoW. It's tied in to a long-standing franchise, the movies were hugely successful, the game got decent reviews and advertising - and it's not even remotely close to WoW.
The idea that a MMO game in a particular genre should have huge potential simply because that genre is popular in other media just doesn't hold. There are other, much more significant factors.
The fact is, in terms of MMOs in general, LotRO - and CoH/V for that matter - are successful. They've done well. WoW is an exception, not the rule.
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Currently it's actually rather tough for a new player to get an EU account anyway....google and the other search engines don't help at all , tap city of heroes into any of them and your taken to the US site where you can purchase the US client and make a US account.
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If I google "City of Heroes" here in the UK, the top of the list returned is uk.cityofheroes.com. The US site comes second. It's easy to follows links from the first to make an EU account, but what's interesting is that the familiar EU and UK flag icons have been removed from the US page, making it difficult to navigate away from there to the appropriate EU page.
Anyway, like FFM I would have really liked new disks When was the last time? Issue 7?
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When I type in "city of heroes" I get this as my first search result
When I click on the link for a 14 day free trial I get this
Now there is a link on that page to refer interested EU parties to the EU site
But it's right at the bottom of the page.
When my browser loads the page I don't even know it's there..unless I scroll down....but why would I? The link for my trial is right in front of me in huge big inviting letters.
So if joe bloggs did go there...not knowing much at all besides the name of the game...it's about super heroes...and it looks fun...he's going to click that big shiny free trial clicky and end up playing on US servers...even though he lives in Birmingham.... heh.
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It is NCwest which is supposed to be overseeing the product in the Western world and last thing I heard Europe was still classified as 'The West'.
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Sorry Mumsie. We're in the middle. We get twice as many enemies, and half the profits
On a more serious note, NC should at least consider doing SOME marketting. Hells, even google ads, for pity sake. I havent seen many DoW2 ads around, but I see one from time to time pop up in MSN sidebars or suchnot. Enough to catch my attention.
Having an actual boxset coming would be a worthy prescence, I think. More people know about MMOs in general, and are more likely to look around in games shops. I wont mention WoW, because Blizzard do have their own park to play in, let alone a court, but LoTR has boxes out, even the apparently awful AoC has boxes out, I've seen 'em! So why no CoX, which is arguably still a damned good MMO (I sure think so, as do many others from the looks of it). Yes, it might well cost a helluva lot. But people will look, people will ponder, if nothing else they'll go home and try a trial version. And then they may not buy the box, per se, not all. But they might well subscribe fully. And thats the whole point, right?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Given that WoW rakes in several thousand times as much as CoH, they could spend 1% of thier income on marketing and still spend more than the entire income of NCwest.
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You must spend money to make money.
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Like banks do? 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
At the very least could we not see some of these trial CD boxes on shelved that get sold for like a pound. though a full on box release would be much much better.
A new Box brings several benefits
1) Marketing. Simply put, that's the main ideia behind a box. I found out about CoX after I saw a CoV box and looked for information on the intenet.
2) No more long downloads after installing. GvE includes CoX up to Issue 7 and we are about to get the massive Issue 14.
3) Free stuff for box owners. I mean, I liked the GvE content.
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Given that WoW rakes in several thousand times as much as CoH, they could spend 1% of thier income on marketing and still spend more than the entire income of NCwest.
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You must spend money to make money.
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Like banks do?
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No, banks give away money to people who can't afford to pay it back, despite KNOWING that they can't pay it back, then sell these loans to others, who also know that these loans can't be paid back and when it all goes [censored] up the governments put the taxpayer into trillions of pounds/dollars in debt to keep what should be a business that can fail like any other afloat. Oh, not forgetting these places still give their staff bonuses for running a failing business and the CEO's of these banks still have their cushy golden handshakes and huge pensions to boot.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
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but LoTR has boxes out, even the apparently awful AoC has boxes out, I've seen 'em! So why no CoX, which is arguably still a damned good MMO
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Lotro has boxes out because it launched a new paid expansion not so long ago, and on the back of that it shifts fresh boxes of original product. Exactly the same thing for WoW. AoC has boxes out because it isn't all that old and the initial print run hasn't yet sold out.
CoH is a five year old game.
Unless they're planning some kind of relaunch with a metric tonne of new stuff in there to attract new players, you are not going to see a new box on the shelves this side of the Atlantic; it would be a monumental waste of money.
Why would a new box need a load of new content to attract new players surly if there new players all the content is new?
New content claws back old players too, so it serves two purposes. Trying to market a 5 year old game to new players serves one
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
I utterly disagree with pretty much the lot of you.
You seem to have this idea that if they spent a fortune on getting boxes on shelves and advertising that the game will suddenly get tens, or hundreds, of thousands of new players.
It would, of course, get some new players but the only relevant question is would it get enough new players to justify the huge cost of doing all that?
And in the EU, I'm personally inclined to think that it would not. Many of you, apparently, think it would, but those are just opinions based on our perceptions. NCSoft, on the other hand, have actual marketing data and research. They're far more likely to be right than you, or I, are.
You do have to spend money to make money - but you have to spend it intelligently. There's a point of diminishing returns, after which spending more money does not make you money. It loses it. I would prefer to see them not doing that personally.
And that doesn't mean the game is doomed by the way.
All just IMO of course.