MORE VILLAIN TF"S PLEASE

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I think the GM thing will be removed to prevent merit farming, but I can't see any reason they would limit the number of AV's as I seem to remember something about no xp/influence in these missions?

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There is XP, just no inf or drops as far as I remember.

Interesting on the multiple AVs thing. I wonder if they are going to remember to include the SO the AV drops in the "No drops" thing. Otherwise I can see a hell of a lot of level 20 multiple AV missions being made.

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I think the GM thing will be removed to prevent merit farming, but I can't see any reason they would limit the number of AV's as I seem to remember something about no xp/influence in these missions?

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There is XP, just no inf or drops as far as I remember.

Interesting on the multiple AVs thing. I wonder if they are going to remember to include the SO the AV drops in the "No drops" thing. Otherwise I can see a hell of a lot of level 20 multiple AV missions being made.

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IIRC, mobs inside the mission drop inf, xp and invention salvage/recipes as normal, however, there is no bonus at the end of the mission or story arc.

If all drops are at the same rate then I expect maps to be cramed fully of AV's surrounded by as many minions as people can squeeze into a map.

Back on topic: I hope there are no more side-specific TF's made as I hate playing villain side in the most part (The SF's are good but I hate the AT's). But they do need something villains can do 30-35 in particular, and another co-op for 40-45 as 10 levels of ITF (Don't even try to tell me most heroes do the SSTF's) can get boring.

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Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

I've enjoyed looking over many of the opinions in this thread and I notice some very key arguments as ever being totally ignored as it would disprove their arguements.

As I stated on page 1 - heroes have an abundance of zones and a massively disproportionally high amount of content, particularly TF/SF/trial compared to villains. Heroes - 19, Villains - 10. Thats nearly DOUBLE!!!

The LRSF was one of the original defining things about villains and was our only big TF. Then when that came out wasn't there an awful lot of cries of "waaaahhh vills got LRSF, we want our own one wahhhh" and low and behold in no time at all the heroes got STF taking them to the new total of 19 TFs. Now is it me, or did the devs waste time to do one sided faction specific content to address that "gap" (that never even existed) of hero players wanting equal and fair amounts of content. And yes it was one sided as this was pre-merging of the games.

YET, when we villain players who have been here since that time ask for a simple addition of one or two to at least cover the gaping holes in our ranges - 10-15 and 40-45 being the key areas - we get a large number of posters here with highly useful comments like "use the MA", "oh villains have x, y and z instead" when neither of these points actually detract from the original hard facts that when there was a miniscule gap for heroes the devs plugged it, and we villains merely want something to fill our TF void.

Maybe, just maybe the reason none of you ever venture out of paragon is because you have all the more zones, all the more contacts, twice the TF/trials, far more GMs, and a substantial of additional stuff you can do AS WELL AS the coop content they keep adding.

Now I call this point - if there was an actual equal level of content that would drive more people to play the redside in order to try all this new stuff out!!!! And has been pointed out new villain only content IS AVAILABLE to everyone as the game is a joint universe and open to all, therefore I want to swerve this back on topic and re-iterate an idea I had below for 2 new TFs.

10-15 TF "Smugglers Bounty"
Contact in PO, maybe a decendant of one of the pirate lords crew?
Foes: Snakes, Corallax, Pirate Ghosts (maybe Arachnos in 1 mish too)
Locations: All Mercy and PO so doable with no raptor
5 mishes plus one defeat say 15 ghosts on the pirate fort on PO
Rough Story: Where you go off to learn of some pirate lord of old and work along learning his history and leading to the info of his secret treasure's location. Final mish have a groovy cave map (not unlike the last mish of say leviathan) where you battle all the denizens and things hidden under PO guarding the cave where this pirate lords ghost shows up after you take the glowie of his treasure - defeat for shiny badge, merits and maybe even a small temp (pirate musket temp rifle sounds like an idea).

40-45 TF "Demons Wrath"
Contact: Tsoo renegade of some sort in St Martial
Foes: Wailers, Freaks, Tsoo, Crey
Mishes: 7 plus 1 defeat 30 wailers mish
Locations: martial, shark, grandville for the crey mish
Rough Story: The demon wailers of st martial are spreading out now to other parts of the rogue isles and we must know why! The Tsoo renegade has learnt of an unholy alliance that will cause demons to run amok as the incantations used in martial to keep them at bay are no longer working and the wailers are making a push. The tsoo and freaks are there as they are under attack on martial and shark after the wailers have battled them for so long on martial. You have to whoop some crey later on and could have it that the new Super-Wailer leading the demons could be called like "Sha'reik" and be a product of crey science messing around with things it dont know about once more and they made it so this wailer is not affected by normal means. Cue freak/tsoo whoppings to combine tech and magic parts to defeat Sha'reik in his final mish as he has now amassed his army to begin waging war on the mortals that have been causing his kind so much trouble. Theres a badge, merits and a really hard TF from the combo of foes right there!

There we go I just in about 14 minutes came up with how to fill the 2 TF voids of villains, please please please please listen to this devs as theres a tremendous need to fill the content gap villain side and this would do it.

Starscreamer:

The amount of TF's may well be greater hero side but for most of the population the Shadow Shard never gets touched, so thats -4 right there. Katie has been nerfed to pointlessness, so has Eden and now we start to look a bit more even.

Then consider that the villain respec's are nice and quick when compared to the tedious final mission of the hero respecs. So if you are on about merits thats I think 45 merits villains can get every night in just over an hour.

Then consider that all the villain SF's were created with new maps, ambushes and generally better design than the hero ones and I don't think it is THAT far out of whack.

Not to mention that especially high level the villain arcs are so much better than the Praetorian arcs heroes get. You could even call the parton arcs mini-SF's since they are thought out in a similar way.

Yes a 10-15 and a 30-35 SF is probably needed, but because those are levelling gaps, not because there are less TF's villain side.

I think you are making the right arguement for the wrong reasons. "Heroes have more than us WAAAH" isn't cool.

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Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

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Starscreamer:

The amount of TF's may well be greater hero side but for most of the population the Shadow Shard never gets touched, so thats -4 right there. Katie has been nerfed to pointlessness, so has Eden and now we start to look a bit more even.

Then consider that the villain respec's are nice and quick when compared to the tedious final mission of the hero respecs. So if you are on about merits thats I think 45 merits villains can get every night in just over an hour.

Then consider that all the villain SF's were created with new maps, ambushes and generally better design than the hero ones and I don't think it is THAT far out of whack.

Not to mention that especially high level the villain arcs are so much better than the Praetorian arcs heroes get. You could even call the parton arcs mini-SF's since they are thought out in a similar way.

Yes a 10-15 and a 30-35 SF is probably needed, but because those are levelling gaps, not because there are less TF's villain side.

I think you are making the right arguement for the wrong reasons. "Heroes have more than us WAAAH" isn't cool.

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Please actually read my whole post - heroes did the same whining and got another tf - STF. We aren't whining, I'm backlashing at the useless comments made by others here to justify why the devs should focus not on one sided content when they have done just that previously and never addressed the longstanding issues villain side.

You see you've clearly proven my point right there - you at least have the option to complain they nerfed YOUR trials/TFs - we do not. You at least have the content levels in which if they nerf something it still doesn't actually matter. Even though we villains have had ours nerfed by the cack merit rewards of ours due the skewed datamining of having half the TFs to balance the numbers. 10 Merits for a Binder TF is a joke imo as if you do it on a casual team its actually a fair challenge regardless (trying doin it in a fast time if noone has SS!). iirc the eden trial was only nerfed due to the fact it can be done in what 10 minutes?

I'd also like to point out that the respec trials while fast are not even comparable as they are a whopping 3 mishes. I don't really even class that as a TF, besides I am largely not talking about reward here. I am talking about equality and scaling to make the community actually have more content. Hell I suggested 2 Tfs back there that are not that hard to create, and the new Tfs dont NEED new tilesets or even new maps really - just ANYTHING to address the gratuitous gaps of content.

And the whole praetorian vs project destiny comment isn't remotely relevant to the argument of TFs. Just because something is a minute amount better doesn't make it relevant. Heroes have more content globally - compare number of Tfs and GMs alone and you see theres a vast hole. How about contacts and zones too. Pound for pound no game is better, but one sure as hell has a lot less equivalent content when directly compared and that is villains.

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And the whole praetorian vs project destiny comment isn't remotely relevant to the argument of TFs. Just because something is a minute amount better doesn't make it relevant. Heroes have more content globally - compare number of Tfs and GMs alone and you see theres a vast hole. How about contacts and zones too. Pound for pound no game is better, but one sure as hell has a lot less equivalent content when directly compared and that is villains.

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^ This
Villains feels a lot smaller than Heroes does. Even though people might not go to all the zones Hero side, theres still a feel of a bigger place, things you havent done yet, which you might get around to one day.
Villains basically runs thus;
Outdoor hunt through Mercy till around lvl 8. The starting missions just arent worth it, with all the too-and-fro stupidity they put you through.
Port Oakes for Paper missions.
Move on to Cap for some slightly more interesting stuff.
Hit stuff in Sharks then go to either Martial or Nerva for a spell.
Wind up in GV hitting things until 50.

Whereas Heroes have a whole tract of ways they can meander about, before eventually winding up in Peregrine for the end-game. This isnt even about levelling fast, its just the scale of stuff to do. Personally, Id love to try out some of the SS stuff, were my main Hero anything other than a Tanker (not great for soloing )

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

First of all it should never be about the rewards TF's....reward, although the fact that you get hardly any merits for most if not all TF's, seems pointless unless your willing to do TF's all day every day untill ur red or blue in the face. It's just the simple fact of fairness in regards to the amount of TF's availble for all (mainly redside in this case). Take the Shadow Shard for instance. That should be availble to redside, if only to run about an explore, and could easily grant the TF's redside, allbe it with a tad editing. (not done em so don't know the stories).

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First of all it should never be about the rewards TF's....reward, although the fact that you get hardly any merits for most if not all TF's, seems pointless unless your willing to do TF's all day every day untill ur red or blue in the face. It's just the simple fact of fairness in regards to the amount of TF's availble for all (mainly redside in this case). Take the Shadow Shard for instance. That should be availble to redside, if only to run about an explore, and could easily grant the TF's redside, allbe it with a tad editing. (not done em so don't know the stories).

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^ This
Quantity, Options, I'll say them till I'm red/blue in the face Kplzthnx?

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

whining or not you never get if you don't ask for it, and the majority of villains feel that new TF's is very much justified - for the multiple's of reasons all already posted so i wont go into it.

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Starscreamer:

The amount of TF's may well be greater hero side but for most of the population the Shadow Shard never gets touched, so thats -4 right there. Katie has been nerfed to pointlessness, so has Eden and now we start to look a bit more even.


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Shame about Eden, it is a cool TF.

But I see calls going out for Katie, SSTF 1-4 going often enough on the badgehunters channels. And they do get filled. I am sorry but that argument doesn't hold up. In fact, the merrit system makes forgotten TF's like posi being interesting again. If all you want is to hunt for merits, then Heroes do have 18 good tf's to do so while villains got only 10. Even hardtime merrit farmers like to have some variety I am sure.

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Yes a 10-15 and a 30-35 SF is probably needed, but because those are levelling gaps, not because there are less TF's villain side.

I think you are making the right arguement for the wrong reasons. "Heroes have more than us WAAAH" isn't cool.

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The reason for the argument is not important when the argument IS right.

Plus: New TF's for red sides benefits most of the players as most of us play red and blue. And yes I want to see more TF's period and for me adding these TF's to plug holes on the TRED side makes sense. I would be happy if they added 1 red side and 1 coop. I would be more then happy if they changed possi while they are at it.

to be honst i dont really care if villians get more TFs or not my point was that those percived gaps arent empity and theres easily plenty to do in those percived gaps

heroes got ther STF largly because the LRSF was causing a inbalance as it was relitivly easy for villians to get HOs but dificult for heroes had that not been the case i doubt there would have been such a rush to get the STF.

on the grounds of inbalance i wouldnt be suprised that if at some point we see the shard opened up to villians at that point i recon the existing TFs will be made co-op or the'll add in villian counter TFs

It also wouldnt suprise me to see a villian version if crotoa (sp) populated with redcaps and co. this to would probably get some kind of TF

then theres DA thers a zone ripe for a revamping if ever there was one and i can see it becoming some kind of co-op zone with some form of TF/SF.

I will agree with Techbot_Alpha villians dose feel small to small in fact i feel but on the other hand i think heroes is to big thats why i recon the'll cull some of the heroes zones making them co-op or duel zones.

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on the grounds of inbalance i wouldnt be suprised that if at some point we see the shard opened up to villians at that point i recon the existing TFs will be made co-op or the'll add in villian counter TFs

It also wouldnt suprise me to see a villian version if crotoa (sp) populated with redcaps and co. this to would probably get some kind of TF

then theres DA thers a zone ripe for a revamping if ever there was one and i can see it becoming some kind of co-op zone with some form of TF/SF.

I will agree with Techbot_Alpha villians dose feel small to small in fact i feel but on the other hand i think heroes is to big thats why i recon the'll cull some of the heroes zones making them co-op or duel zones.

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If that was the case, then you could simply allow all TF's to be played by either side, would certainly do away with the inbalance. I am aware that a villain doing hero TF's would seem stupid, but wouldn't that also be true. In comics don't heros turn bad for some reason, and vs verse for villains, and don't either pretend to be of opposite allegence for what ever purpose.

With that said you could gain Infiltration points, by doing good things redside, and bad things blueside. When you've aquired enough, you can do any TF either side. Prob solved imo. Allbeit with a tad of tweaking.

Or ultimatly just do away with what side gets what AT and you can play either side with ur favorate AT. And can jump between sides at will. For a price or certain requirement.

nice idea that mate

That idea could work. It could even fit into the going rogue thing.

ok first of all theres alot of posts here and i cba to read every signle one in detail. so if i say something thts been said- well ignore it

i argee with this and have so since what issue 10. if not 9. vills lack ALOT compared to heroes and this stops ppl playing this side. i know loads of ppl who loves villains but cant lvl many cos of whats there. we as heroes theres alot.

now yes we know. or should know tht it takes time for stories/arcs/tfs etc to be created and brought live. but we do seriously need tfs. a issue thts half filled with tfs for vills would be welcome by so many. tbh i think the devs should also tell us at least there being worked/looked at. it would make ppl feel alot better cos i know information on future issues is told closer to tht issue date theres things we need/like to know and more tfs for vills is one thing.
come on its not like we dont have enough contacts.
Dr Aeon should have a tf to himself
what about the circle. ghost widow, mako etc they have patrons/ other mini stories but a tf would be good for them also.
shadow shards- enough said.
and so on.

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to be honst i dont really care if villians get more TFs or not my point was that those percived gaps arent empity and theres easily plenty to do in those percived gaps

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What exactly is percieved about the fact that there are gaps in the villain side SF's?

A gap is a gap, if you dont see a problem with a gap then thats great.

But something missing is not percieved, its missing.

Saying that Villains have a lot of alternate stuff to fill the big SF gaps is also twaddle. A lot of the contacts with the interesting stuff to do need unlocking, and some of the badges redside are frankly murder. I think I realise now WHY people do paper missions all the time. Because they dont have to go through the hassle of unlocking all the contacts to actually get missions =/

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I would love a carnie sf, a pirate sf and some more gm's. There are 4 redside gm's right? All i can remember right now is Scrapyard, Deathsurge, Caleb and the flier.

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I would love a carnie sf, a pirate sf and some more gm's. There are 4 redside gm's right? All i can remember right now is Scrapyard, Deathsurge, Caleb and the flier.

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A little off topic but yeh those four, excluding the dual zone ones.

9 on Heros (10 really, but Sally not really a GM)
compared to 4 Vills side.

Just more evidence of unbalancednessness.

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Saying that Villains have a lot of alternate stuff to fill the big SF gaps is also twaddle. A lot of the contacts with the interesting stuff to do need unlocking, and some of the badges redside are frankly murder. I think I realise now WHY people do paper missions all the time. Because they dont have to go through the hassle of unlocking all the contacts to actually get missions =/

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^^^^^^ Agreed, and whilst im here and not logging into another 60 odd posts, can i thank the likes of peeps who are actually keeping this thread ON TOPIC. The clue is in the title really and was meant to see actually how many peeps wud agree ( those that do care and actually play vills is a good start). Alot of this thread has wastefully gone onto the likes of Mission Architect, which has no bearing on this argument in my eyes to those comparing to other games ( also not relevant) along with alot of posts that seem to serve no purpose than to score points and pick faults with other peoples opinions. IF you DONT like Vills , Dont PLAY vills or are not bothered if it 'dont affect u' attitude then frankly dont waste your time posting, i mean why bother? There have been some good points so far and tbh this post helps highlight ( if peeps dont get put off by wading through the irrelevant) that this is an issue, and shud be addressed. I have started this Post because i am tired of the lack of content, this may sound strange but i like vills more than heroes and wud hate for it to appeal less and less because lack of content in the form of TF's SPECIFIC to Red side. [censored], NERFED or WATEVER the choice is still there and merits are up for grabs watever the level HERO side which villain side is CLEARLY not apparent at certain levels. Please stay on topic Pl0x

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I would love a carnie sf, a pirate sf and some more gm's. There are 4 redside gm's right? All i can remember right now is Scrapyard, Deathsurge, Caleb and the flier.

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A little off topic but yeh those four, excluding the dual zone ones.

9 on Heros (10 really, but Sally not really a GM)
compared to 4 Vills side.

Just more evidence of unbalancednessness.

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How many zones do Heroes have again? Villains would need more zones for GMs. Because adding more to the zones that already have them would only make people complain about Heroes not having more then 1 GM a zone. But Villains could have a few more GMs though. One in Mercy Island. One in Port Oaks and one in St Martial. That would bring villains up to 7 GMs. Still not as many as Heroes.

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to be honst i dont really care if villians get more TFs or not my point was that those percived gaps arent empity and theres easily plenty to do in those percived gaps

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What exactly is percieved about the fact that there are gaps in the villain side SF's?

A gap is a gap, if you dont see a problem with a gap then thats great.

But something missing is not percieved, its missing.

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Um all SF doable by villians here pls point out the gap

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to be honst i dont really care if villians get more TFs or not my point was that those percived gaps arent empity and theres easily plenty to do in those percived gaps

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What exactly is percieved about the fact that there are gaps in the villain side SF's?

A gap is a gap, if you dont see a problem with a gap then thats great.

But something missing is not percieved, its missing.

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Um all SF doable by villians here pls point out the gap

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This is not including Ouroborous or Co-op zone SFs. There is no 10 -15 SF (Heroes have Cavern). There is no Villains only at 40-45 and 30 -35. Again, not counting Ouro SFs, which are more arcs than anything else.

Also, forgot that Mantis' SF requires you have a SG. That sucks for those that don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

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to be honst i dont really care if villians get more TFs or not my point was that those percived gaps arent empity and theres easily plenty to do in those percived gaps

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What exactly is percieved about the fact that there are gaps in the villain side SF's?

A gap is a gap, if you dont see a problem with a gap then thats great.

But something missing is not percieved, its missing.

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Um all SF doable by villians here pls point out the gap

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This is not including Ouroborous or Co-op zone SFs. There is no 10 -15 SF (Heroes have Cavern). There is no Villains only at 40-45 and 30 -35. Again, not counting Ouro SFs, which are more arcs than anything else.

Also, forgot that Mantis' SF requires you have a SG. That sucks for those that don't.

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He knows as well as anyone the gaps, but they aint really gaps, we are just imagining them.