MORE VILLAIN TF"S PLEASE

Ok I'm getting confused now so ill start again

while villains lack the number of TF that heroes have they gain far better mission arks especially in the later lvls so if its a TF like experience your after just gather your team go to oraborus (sp) and do a full ark of missions every one will receive rewards and you'll be doing a series of missions in much the same way as you do a series of missions in a TF

I would suggest.

Any of the von Grun mission arcs there great fun there's a few temp powers to be had and you get to fight the woodsman.

Vindication from Abyss a short arc but you take on the Vindicators

Ancient History / snake fest. another fun set of missions where you can once again face the snakes

and I'm sure there's other gems in there as well so there's no shortage of linked missions to do villains side

As to MA and what it'll bring I'm sure well see some great well crafted missions and some could provided a real challenges depending what features make the finale cut.

All that's not to say some more villian TFs wouldn't be appreciated but i wouldn't say they were desperately needed to fill leveling gaps.

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Ok I'm getting confused now so ill start again

while villains lack the number of TF that heroes have they gain far better mission arks especially in the later lvls so if its a TF like experience your after just gather your team go to oraborus (sp) and do a full ark of missions every one will receive rewards and you'll be doing a series of missions in much the same way as you do a series of missions in a TF

I would suggest.

Any of the von Grun mission arcs there great fun there's a few temp powers to be had and you get to fight the woodsman.

Vindication from Abyss a short arc but you take on the Vindicators

Ancient History / snake fest. another fun set of missions where you can once again face the snakes

and I'm sure there's other gems in there as well so there's no shortage of linked missions to do villains side

As to MA and what it'll bring I'm sure well see some great well crafted missions and some could provided a real challenges depending what features make the finale cut.

All that's not to say some more villian TFs wouldn't be appreciated but i wouldn't say they were desperately needed to fill leveling gaps.

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And when like me you have done every single one of those arcs to death, and find SF's have a bit more replayability about them, the gaps in the levels of those SF's really do need filling. For me at least.

The mission architect does absolutely nothing for me.

I think you may very well be a lost cause then Londoner there is basically no difference between a TF and Mission Arc other than the fact your not locked into a mission arc normally.

Yes TFs have some special things like Romy and his buffing nictus but dose that really add loads of replay ability?

As to MA doing nothing for you how can you say that and complain about replay-ability MA gives the potential for unlimited missions and im sure there's going to be some real gems amongst them

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I think you may very well be a lost cause then Londoner there is basically no difference between a TF and Mission Arc other than the fact your not locked into a mission arc normally.

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Ah right i must have imagined all the things in SF's i have never seen in missions then.

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As to MA doing nothing for you how can you say that and complain about replay-ability MA gives the potential for unlimited missions and im sure there's going to be some real gems amongst them

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How can i say that? like this.... the mission architect does nothing for me, that ok?

The mission architect gives me the option to trawl through god knows how many jank player made missions in search of the odd decent one, that lets have it right, aint going to be anywhere near the quality of a developer developed SF anyway.


So for me, no the mission architect does not in any way, shape or form fill in for a lack of villain SF's, and i know im not alone in that point of view.

The experience with NWN was that some of the player made stuff was much better than stuff made by the devs, and it isn't had to track down because people review stuff on the forums.

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Ah right i must have imagined all the things in SF's i have never seen in missions then.


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And what about the stuff in missions that have never been seen in TFs? There are good examples in the Croatoa, Faultline and Cimmora arcs.

There is no reason you can't have a battle like the one with Romulous in a mission, and it looks like you will be able to create something similar with player made missions.

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The experience with NWN was that some of the player made stuff was much better than stuff made by the devs, and it isn't had to track down because people review stuff on the forums.

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When you find someone that writes a mission that compares with recluses SF let me know.

Can we have a list of all these never seen features that appear in SFs please?

I imagine that's why there's going to be things like Dev's choice and what not to weed out the gash missions and keep the exilent ones

as to your claim that the player made missions wont be near the quality of the developers developed SF that's quite a claim when the details of MA are largely unknown i also think your seriously underestimating the creativity of the player base

On another point what would you like these new TFs to cover TFs villain side tend to delve deeper into the back story of the game tying up unanswered questions and what not I'm hard pushed at the moment to think of any massively gaping holes in the CoV back story that aren't already covered.

I'm sure we will. I expect them to start apearing about 2 weeks after it goes live.

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I think you may very well be a lost cause then Londoner there is basically no difference between a TF and Mission Arc other than the fact your not locked into a mission arc normally.

Yes TFs have some special things like Romy and his buffing nictus but dose that really add loads of replay ability?

As to MA doing nothing for you how can you say that and complain about replay-ability MA gives the potential for unlimited missions and im sure there's going to be some real gems amongst them

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Villains need more Sf thats a fact!!

As for MA giving more content thats just rubbish, imo its just an excuse for the devs not to do any work as they have ran out of ideas for the game and are hoping that a few players can come up with a new way to use freaks in a lab map.

Player made content will only work if the player is given the chance to build from scratch new enemy groups with new powers, new areas for the missions to be in.

With out this its just re-working what we already have and adding your own RP bits if your into that of course.

The devs need to start using there heads and get doing what there paid for coming up with NEW CONTENT!!!

And a lvl 45 villan SF would be a good start.

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Can we have a list of all these never seen features that appear in SFs please?

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Just off the top of my head, the final mission in every strike force, one or maybe two in each SF, which you know as well as i do are unique, why even ask that question?

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as to your claim that the player made missions wont be near the quality of the developers developed SF that's quite a claim when the details of MA are largely unknown i also think your seriously underestimating the creativity of the player base

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No im saying that professional developers are better at developing games than non developers.

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On another point what would you like these new TFs to cover TFs villain side tend to delve deeper into the back story of the game tying up unanswered questions and what not I'm hard pushed at the moment to think of any massively gaping holes in the CoV back story that aren't already covered.

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I dont give a toss what they cover to be honest,i would just like to see some developer developed content, maybe its time some added back story got written.

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Just off the top of my head, the final mission in every strike force, one or maybe two in each SF, which you know as well as i do are unique, why even ask that question?

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Lots of non-TF missions have unique maps. Several hero TFs have no unique maps. Unique maps =/= TF.

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No im saying that professional developers are better at developing games than non developers.

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In which you would be mistaken. As any NWN veteran who has played player created content will tell you. The main reason player made stuff is sometimes better is that players are not being payed to produce the stuff. therefore they can lavish hundreds of hours on something that professional devs have to churn out in a dozen.

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Villains need more Sf thats a fact!!


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Why is it a fact?

heroes having more TFs than villains having SFs dose not = give villains more

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Player made content will only work if the player is given the chance to build from scratch new enemy groups with new powers, new areas for the missions to be in.


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That would be the worst thing to happen as it stands all the current factions fit into the history of the game where would these player created factions fit in

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The devs need to start using there heads and get doing what there paid for coming up with NEW CONTENT!!!


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which they have done for the last 13 issues and are doing for i14

you may not like it but MA is content

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And a lvl 45 villan SF would be a good start.


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what you mean like Lord Recluse's Strike Force lvl 45 to 50?

or of course there's the ITF and the LGTF even tho they can be done co-op you don't have to do them co-op there's nothing stopping you getting a like minded group of villains together and doing them villain only

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On another point what would you like these new TFs to cover TFs villain side tend to delve deeper into the back story of the game tying up unanswered questions and what not I'm hard pushed at the moment to think of any massively gaping holes in the CoV back story that aren't already covered.

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I dont give a toss what they cover to be honest,i would just like to see some developer developed content, maybe its time some added back story got written.

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back story to what? as i said there very few gaping holes in the back story those that do exist more than likely exist for specific reason in the case of nemesis its no doubt to add to the "nemesis did it" "its a nemesis plot" type paranoia that runs through the CoH history nemesis is the great manipulator knowing what made him this way could lessen that impression and spoil the entire character it would certainly put a end to all the player speculation which would be a shame.

Then there's the shevians we know very little about them other than there the heralds of the coming storm who or what that storm is we don't know yet but i believe posi has stated that i15 will be the next major story point and move the hole thing forward.

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Lots of non-TF missions have unique maps. Several hero TFs have no unique maps. Unique maps =/= TF.

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I like the idea of killing 8 heroes at once, or one unique hero or whatever.

I dont care how you define the word unique, or how you define SF's or what hero TF's have or havent got. Im not talking about hero TF's.

Im talking about villain SF's and the fact i like doing them more than missions because i find them more entertaining.

Thats why i would like to see more of them, is that ok with you Praff?


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In which you would be mistaken. As any NWN veteran who has played player created content will tell you. The main reason player made stuff is sometimes better is that players are not being payed to produce the stuff. therefore they can lavish hundreds of hours on something that professional devs have to churn out in a dozen.

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No you would be mistaken, i do think that developers are better at developing games than non developers, Its called an opinion.

Also id like to point out that we aint playing NWN.

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On another point what would you like these new TFs to cover TFs villain side tend to delve deeper into the back story of the game tying up unanswered questions and what not I'm hard pushed at the moment to think of any massively gaping holes in the CoV back story that aren't already covered.

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I dont give a toss what they cover to be honest,i would just like to see some developer developed content, maybe its time some added back story got written.

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back story to what? as i said there very few gaping holes in the back story those that do exist more than likely exist for specific reason in the case of nemesis its no doubt to add to the "nemesis did it" "its a nemesis plot" type paranoia that runs through the CoH history nemesis is the great manipulator knowing what made him this way could lessen that impression and spoil the entire character it would certainly put a end to all the player speculation which would be a shame.

Then there's the shevians we know very little about them other than there the heralds of the coming storm who or what that storm is we don't know yet but i believe posi has stated that i15 will be the next major story point and move the hole thing forward.

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Mate listen, iv got to the stage where i dont care if theres a story or not, id just like a couple of new SF's, if you dont thats fine, im happy for you.

If they couldnt be written into the general plot of things, then write an off shoot story for them, at the end of the day, id just like 1 or 2 more villain SF's, thats it, its not complicated.


As Praff said i doubt it will happen now, but please dont tell me that re doing arcs or the mission architect fills the bill for me, because it dont.

Edit, I'l change that to the idea of the mission architect dosent fill me with great inspiration, because as you say, it aint here yet.

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I like the idea of killing 8 heroes at once, or one unique hero or whatever.

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Which is something we will certainly be able to do with the MA.

There is also at least one non-SF villain mission where you can fight 8 heroes at once, and there are many with unique heroes.

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No you would be mistaken, i do think that developers are better at developing games than non developers, Its called an opinion.

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Opinion, yes, but mine is based on experience, where yours comes from the same place as statistics.

However, the devs are not going to stop making missions and SFs. They have recently increased the number of mission writers on staff. Issue 15 is going to have the big push for missions and story, and will no doubt include at least one TF. What it won't be is faction specific, the TF, and probably most of the missions will be co-op.

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I think you may very well be a lost cause then Londoner there is basically no difference between a TF and Mission Arc other than the fact your not locked into a mission arc normally.

Yes TFs have some special things like Romy and his buffing nictus but dose that really add loads of replay ability?

As to MA doing nothing for you how can you say that and complain about replay-ability MA gives the potential for unlimited missions and im sure there's going to be some real gems amongst them

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The big difference is that in a TF/SF you get rewards. You get merits. Merits from storyarcs are negligible. As a villain you should have more ways to do these then the same old same old.As a villain you should be able to get merits from tf's at every level as well. Just as heroes can. I don't think that is such an outrageous request.

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I like the idea of killing 8 heroes at once, or one unique hero or whatever.

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Which is something we will certainly be able to do with the MA.

There is also at least one non-SF villain mission where you can fight 8 heroes at once, and there are many with unique heroes.

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No you would be mistaken, i do think that developers are better at developing games than non developers, Its called an opinion.

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Opinion, yes, but mine is based on experience, where yours comes from the same place as statistics.

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Yea yours is based on experience from the wrong game, and my opinion is my opinion, stop mind reading Praff, you aint no good at it as you have proved more often than is funny.

So, what is different about CoX that means that players can make good missions in NWN, but will only be able to make sucky missions in CoX? Maybe you think that only idiots play CoX, NWN has a much smarter player base? Please explain you reasoning, because it makes no sense whatsover.

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So, what is different about CoX that means that players can make good missions in NWN, but will only be able to make sucky missions in CoX? Maybe you think that only idiots play CoX, NWN has a much smarter player base? Please explain you reasoning, because it makes no sense whatsover.

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Ok listen carefully, had i played NWN i might have thought the player made missions were rubbish thats called an OPINION, but i didnt so i dont know.

The fact that you did and liked them means jack [censored] to me, because you are not me, nor are you playing this or any other game on my behalf. So what you liked has no bearing on what i'd like to see.

I base my assumption on professional developers making better content on the following....

It's their job, they do it as a profession.

They have the full set of developing tools at their disposal.

Now if you dont happen to think thaats the case, then thats great and im happy for you.

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So, what is different about CoX that means that players can make good missions in NWN, but will only be able to make sucky missions in CoX? Maybe you think that only idiots play CoX, NWN has a much smarter player base? Please explain you reasoning, because it makes no sense whatsover.

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Whereas Heroes have the option to do X many Tfs with rewards/stories/oojimaflips, Villains have to make do with Y. This make Londoner unhappy. You wont like him when he's unhappy -nods-

And anyway, I actually agree. If they *can't* come up with stories to use for some new TF's then they could give me or @Evils or a number of people I know a call. Have a couple of nice Tfs ready roll in no time Its pretty poor show if they cant come up with *something*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

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No you would be mistaken, i do think that developers are better at developing games than non developers, Its called an opinion.

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This is most probably true, however has no bearing on how good a story they can write. As Praf rightly pointed out(and I can't believe I'm agreeing with him ) users are more able to spend more time on a story and getting it just right because they aren't working to deadlines. This isn't to bag the Devs, who do a pretty good job, but just that there will be members of the community who will do work that will surpass that of the Devs.

Say what you want about using other games as an analogy but fan based content has extended the life of many games, in a wide range of genres. Using NWN is a fair comparison.

The only unknown is whether the MA will allow enough freedom for the community to achieve this. If it does I think you will be quickly proven wrong.

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So, what is different about CoX that means that players can make good missions in NWN, but will only be able to make sucky missions in CoX? Maybe you think that only idiots play CoX, NWN has a much smarter player base? Please explain you reasoning, because it makes no sense whatsover.

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I think only and maybe the biggest difference in two games is how much of the sources will opened to the players and how far players can go with modifications to originals.

You should remember Community Something in NWN. In that hak pack a group of players put somethings or should i say many things we don't have in NWN. Like visible cloaks, new weapons, new races, new cloth/armor styles etc. etc.

I doubt MArch will have that much freedom.

Also no matter how good the player made content is or how many different factions it has (like Carnifax's long wanted Tsoo, CoT and Banished Phanteon mission arc) it won't make a TF designed by devs.

If players feel a gap in their game, it is devs duty to fill it. If you think TFs/SFs ain't that special, why are they in this game? Face it this game don't have any raids like other MMOs. Only things a player can do outside the regular missions are; Farming (grinding), Badges (grinding), PvP (only for special part of Playerbase) or TFs/SFs/Trials (for everyone and much more fun than regular missions). If they remove TFs or don't make new ones in the future i think real end for this game will be it for me.

PS: I am not scorning Farmers or Badgers, in contrary i am happy for them as they have something to enjoy in this game.

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I think you may very well be a lost cause then Londoner there is basically no difference between a TF and Mission Arc other than the fact your not locked into a mission arc normally.

Yes TFs have some special things like Romy and his buffing nictus but dose that really add loads of replay ability?

As to MA doing nothing for you how can you say that and complain about replay-ability MA gives the potential for unlimited missions and im sure there's going to be some real gems amongst them

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The big difference is that in a TF/SF you get rewards. You get merits. Merits from storyarcs are negligible. As a villain you should have more ways to do these then the same old same old.As a villain you should be able to get merits from tf's at every level as well. Just as heroes can. I don't think that is such an outrageous request.

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But you can get merits at every lvl as a villian granted 2 of teh task forces are co-op but there still task forces open to villians

also i once again direct you to the oraborus where you can do mission arcs as TF and if its purely merits your after may i suggest "Von Grun's Redemption" at 7 missions long (one being a talk to) and a EB its as good as most TF and you can do it as many time in a row as you want and get 12 merits every time.

Mix in a ITF or LGTF and thats most peoples gaming time taken up pretty easily

I'm just really struggling to understand this consuming need for more villain SFs yes they would be nice but i would hardly say its a necessity.

I would far more like to see them add a 25-35 co-op zone

You know what i surrender, i hope the mission architect is fab and im wrong!