For those who want more challenge
By
Alvan,
Posted on: 2009-01-29 07:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Now for the challenging part. NO IO's allowed,
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If you're serious about this forget half measures - no enhancements of any sort. 
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Why on earth are we discussing how to dumb ourselves down???
Shouldnt we be talking about the devs raising the challenge bar for us?
One reason, but not the only one, is because, except in a few tfs and so on, once youve played the game a while you know exactly what formation youre gonna be faced with and roughly whos going to be in it.
Bit like playing a football match knowing the oppositions starting 11, all their exact strengths and weaknesses AND their tactics for the match, knowing that they wont vary their tactics at all regardless.
That would be an easy match too wouldn't it?
That is one and only one reason the game is easy.
And how about after 5 years we actually get some new opponents that dont necessarily follow the exact formula we get served up fight after fight? Or more Elite level opponents? Or random opponents? (rogue super villians not necessarily part of the group we're facing?) Villians that show up randomly? You dont know if theyre gonna be there or not?
The ways of dealing with this and providing us with an invigorated challenge rather than dumb us down again are there. But someone with imagination has to look for em. And you know what I think about CoH in that department.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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The ways of dealing with this and providing us with an invigorated challenge rather than dumb us down again are there. But someone with imagination has to look for em. And you know what I think about CoH in that department.
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Whilst I agree I think the point was to say if we currently want more of a challenge then we can create that challenge ourselves, we don't need the devs to nurf us in order to do it.
I do think that a greater level of difficulty could be added to the game though. Personally, I like the new level of difficulty idea brought up in the other thread. Then more content could be added.
Worthy of a post in suggestions, if you ask me.
No pressure *oils thumb screws*
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Why on earth are we discussing how to dumb ourselves down???
Shouldnt we be talking about the devs raising the challenge bar for us?
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All to do with moving mountains.
If you want a challenge you can't get the devs to immediately produce one available just for you, but you can take some measures to limit your character and create your own challenge.
Of course we want devs to provide new challenges (and ones with the capacity to be a tougher challenge) but in the meantime, instead of moaning and whining...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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The ways of dealing with this and providing us with an invigorated challenge rather than dumb us down again are there. But someone with imagination has to look for em. And you know what I think about CoH in that department.
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Whilst I agree I think the point was to say if we currently want more of a challenge then we can create that challenge ourselves, we don't need the devs to nurf us in order to do it.
I do think that a greater level of difficulty could be added to the game though. Personally, I like the new level of difficulty idea brought up in the other thread. Then more content could be added.
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While I am all in favor for more things to do with my 50's including hunting for rare IO's and purples there is currently fro me at least not much point in doing so. Yes I like more new content. Yes I wouldn't mind another difficulty setting above what we have now. But these things take time.
So far there is enough challenge for me left in the game. But for those who have outgrown the challenge curve a self induced limitation could provide them with renewed fun. It won't be a thing for everybody of course. But it might be something to try.
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That should make things much more interesting for you. Come back when you soloed Nictus Romulus now.
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Bah, If you fancy a challenge:
... Unless you are ambidextrous, Take your most proficient arm (right handed in my case) and strap it to your body in a sling so you cannot use it for the mouse, This means you have to use your left arm (odd arm) for both controlling the mouse and direction and typing (approximately triples response time).
Next, dose your system up to simulate the foggy drowseyness you have with post-op general anesthetic and painkillers as if you were in orthopaedic surgery not 48 hours earlier.
Next, answer a recruitment call for help for a team requiring a Defender anxious to complete the MoSTF after their 3 failed attempts.
Take part in said TF - Complete TF successfully - Collapse from exhaustion.
Then dream up more sadistic ways of challenging oneself.
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Done only part of that 
You got a wicked wicked mind. Join the dark side your talents are wasted on blue side.
Ok I have put myself out there saying that for experienced players the challenge isn't always enough if you play the game as it is meant to be played.
I have never asked for nerfs, and I've suggested a number of ways for the game to be made more challenging, with an implicit suggestion that it should be optional. I would in no way ever advocate making the game more difficult for new and inexperienced players (because we want to encourage people to the game, not exclude them.)
However I think the following points are worth considering:
If I gimp my build as Spade suggested, well that rather defeats the object of the exercise. The whole point of uber-rare Purple (and yes I do have a few) IOs is to give the level 50 toon something to do. It's a goal to be achieved. Otherwise, why play the 50? Go back and start the levelling process all over again. But, once I've got those shiny IOs and got my build the way I want it, then there should be some challenges to be met with them still.
I'm not suggesting I can waltz everything, by any means. But when I'm teaming with friends or in a PuG I do find myself frequently sleep-walking through a lot of it.
Sure I could have a relatively "normal" 2nd build now... but what's the point? I can see the worth of having a PVE & PVP build but not 2 builds for PVE alone.
What I'd rather see is something similar to the way the Rikti invasions are handled, where the critter level scales to my level, regardless of my team-mates levels or those around me, so that I could go into a team on Invince or so and my team-mates can be at the difficulty that suits them.
I want to strive to be the best I can be (not much point otherwise I think) but I don't want it to be too easy once I've got to that stage. I'm not suggesting anyone gets nerfed (but I wouldn't object too much in principle if that was mooted by the Devs) but I would like to see more options open to me.
Another suggestion might be able to make "Hazard Missions" in Hazard zones, that are optional but scaleable? I've done some Ouro missions but I want to play at level 50 with all my powers, not to have to play at lvl 14 or something.
As a comparison, I've got a good friend who's recently joined the game having come from WoW - she's enjoying it a lot but she is also finding it very very easy to level (even without DXP weekend) and we've discussed this and I don't think she'd object too strenuously to the progression being a bit tougher, or the XP rewards reduced.
I think that given the response to various "moar challenge plx" threads I'm not alone in wanting something that stretches me - and I would prefer it's not an endless round of STF/ITF etc... that becomes tiresome quickly. I want something that gives me a bigger buzz in the round. Not too much to ask for is it?
Thelonious Monk
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Didn't Coin attempt this with Turtleman?
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I seam to remember someone tried that once.. can't remember who or on what though.
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Oh the whole 'not dieing and if you do re-roll' thing was Scarlet Shocker's Idea.
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Didn't Coin attempt this with Turtleman?
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I seam to remember someone tried that once.. can't remember who or on what though.
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Oh the whole 'not dieing and if you do re-roll' thing was Scarlet Shocker's Idea.
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Yeps and it's something that gets VERY tedious solo and very few people are up for it teamwise
Plus I rolled a lot of toons trying
I'm convinced it's doable but it'll take some dedicated teaming
Thelonious Monk
With MA coming soon you'll be able to add a fair bit of difficulty.
Oh and btw what exactly is the RWZ challenge?
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Oh and btw what exactly is the RWZ challenge?
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Varies for AT - look in some of the AT-specific boards - but basically a challenge something along the lines of:
Take down a pylon whilst 2 spawns with at least 2 bosses and 4 lts are attacking you and using no insps or outside buffs.
i.e. it's just a hard, personal challenge with self-imposed limitations.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
Interesting idea! Out of interest, have you deleted your Main toons and Solo'ed Romulus?!
Skipping IOs etc strips away reasons to love the game. My idea:
Start a new toon, and chose AT and powerset according to your imagination rather to that you believe works best in the game.
Skip most "mandatory" power (health, stamina etc), and take odd powers that you haven't tried out (perhaps presence pool)
In short, make your character so unique as possible. This wont make the game impossible, just increase the difficulty without removing features.
Story arcs: �Viva la Represi�n! (#2327) | Mysterious Virus (#11762) | Four Horsemen of the 2012 Apocalypse (#531874) | Deadly Dragon | White Slime
My story on union.virtueverse.com
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Start a new toon, and chose AT and powerset according to your imagination rather to that you believe works best in the game.
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Welcome to my world! 
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Interesting idea! Out of interest, have you deleted your Main toons and Solo'ed Romulus?!
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Are you daft?
I am not the one in need for the game to be much more challenging. I am always shocked when I notice that somehow we have beaten him. 
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Skipping IOs etc strips away reasons to love the game. My idea:
Start a new toon, and chose AT and powerset according to your imagination rather to that you believe works best in the game.
Skip most "mandatory" power (health, stamina etc), and take odd powers that you haven't tried out (perhaps presence pool)
In short, make your character so unique as possible. This wont make the game impossible, just increase the difficulty without removing features.
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Not a bad idea. I always try to make an interesting character based on what I like to play and sounds good. Sometimes it even works out nicely. But the Stamina stays. I am addicted to that power
Recently, when I became a little jaded with the EU servers and thought that any gameplay I would get would be at 3 in the morning (don't you love newborns?), I got myself a US account. Rolling up on Virtue was a strange taste of nostalgia. I had no 50s, no veteran powers and absolutely no influence. I had to scrimp and save for every enhancement but I tell you what, it really felt as if I'd earnt them.
Since then, any new character I've rolled (unless it's a concept that needs a lot of investment) I try and earn my way on. It certainly keeps those early levels more entertaining than before. Not sure if I'd quite go the the lengths the OP suggested (and yes, I know it was a lighthearted suggestion) but denying some of those things that have made life so easy has rejuvenated the early levels for me.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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Since then, any new character I've rolled (unless it's a concept that needs a lot of investment) I try and earn my way on. It certainly keeps those early levels more entertaining than before. Not sure if I'd quite go the the lengths the OP suggested (and yes, I know it was a lighthearted suggestion) but denying some of those things that have made life so easy has rejuvenated the early levels for me.
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I usually don't transfer any INF/enhancements to new characters partly to make them earn their own way and partly:
* to see a more natural progression to the character that makes me understand them better (it's easy to play a character without understanding it if it's always enhanced to the max);
* to check that it is still possible to 'compete'/get along without outside help.
The latter I started considering as soon as WW/BM was announced and some people expressed worries about the coming market and new players being priced out of the market by veterans. Since then I've only ever transferred INF for a couple of characters and they've never had any problems. If anything the market made things a lot easier for new/un-financed characters, but I'll keep on making new characters pay their own way partly to be sure that they still can.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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Until you can defeat the jade spider solo with
*Enemy buffed
*Player debuffed
*No temps allowed
on then there is still a challenge left in the game!!! (love fighting that thing!)
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
no thats a variation
RWZ challenge
No insps
No deaths
Spawn must consist of 3 lvl 54 bosses (soldiers, mesmerists)
No splitting
No kiting
thats the classic one
Then there are variations such as the one you mentioned, taking down the spawn while a pylon shoots at you or taking down 2 spawns while a pylon shooting with you with 6 bosses etc.
I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the upcoming Architect. After all, if you want challenging missions, surely the best way to do that is to create your own?
I think playing other people's storylines is going to play a big part in the future of CoX, and add hugely to its longevity. It should also quiet the challenge driven crowd as they strive to create missions which test their resolve.
Characters:
The Heroic Mary Grace (50)
The Mystical Thunderspark (50)
The Candy-loving Little Jenny (50)
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Since then, any new character I've rolled (unless it's a concept that needs a lot of investment) I try and earn my way on. It certainly keeps those early levels more entertaining than before. Not sure if I'd quite go the the lengths the OP suggested (and yes, I know it was a lighthearted suggestion) but denying some of those things that have made life so easy has rejuvenated the early levels for me.
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I usually don't transfer any INF/enhancements to new characters partly to make them earn their own way and partly:
* to see a more natural progression to the character that makes me understand them better (it's easy to play a character without understanding it if it's always enhanced to the max);
* to check that it is still possible to 'compete'/get along without outside help.
The latter I started considering as soon as WW/BM was announced and some people expressed worries about the coming market and new players being priced out of the market by veterans. Since then I've only ever transferred INF for a couple of characters and they've never had any problems. If anything the market made things a lot easier for new/un-financed characters, but I'll keep on making new characters pay their own way partly to be sure that they still can.
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I tend do to this now as well, although I used to bankroll new alts with transferred cash or SOs before. With Invention Salvage now about I no longer bother. Only difficulty I had was with my Claws/WP scrapper who was a bit short at 22 to fully slot up with SOs. 1 hour in Dark Astoria beating up blue & white conning zombies fixed that.
I found Warhammer Online was fairly easy but dull. I actually felt a bit bored and underpowered with all the grindy "pull and kite"ing I had to do. Or grinding the same public quest over and over again *shudders*. The first part of every one seemed to be nothing more than a dressed up version of CoHs "Hunt" missions.
I suspect it will be easy to create stupidly difficult missions in the MA (e.g. defeat 10 statesmen). The challange will be to create challenging and interesting battles that aren't impossible.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I suspect it will be easy to create stupidly difficult missions in the MA (e.g. defeat 10 statesmen). The challange will be to create challenging and interesting battles that aren't impossible.
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I'm hoping that's true actually because it if is possible to make stupidly difficult missions then it should be more than possible to make really challenging missions.
It's a shame you don't have control over spawns from what I've read... I will have to wait and see what can be done before I actually write anything for it though.
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Didn't Coin attempt this with Turtleman?
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I seam to remember someone tried that once.. can't remember who or on what though.