In praise of Nerfs!

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What former power? Mobs weren't really changed at all. Hell CoT behemoths still use their i4 version of the Inv toggle.

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Mobs had much more HP than they have now and some did hit harder than they do now.

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There once was a time when chars didnt have sets therfore not beeing as powerfull.

[/ QUOTE ]I very much doubt they were less powerful than they are now.
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There once was a time when mobs used to be much harder than they are now.

[/ QUOTE ]When was that? Back before ED when tanks could herd an entire map so the rest of the team could blast then to shreds by the door? They certainly haven't changed the power level of standard mobs since issue 6 and I doubt that they have been made easier before then. I certainly haven't found any patch notes that say as much.
Of course if you have some solid proof that what you say is true (not: "a SG mate said...") then maybe you would have a point.

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the Croatoa arcs

These i still find a lot of fun to do and the Defeat all Tuatha in sewers with its roving groups of Tuanmtha can be a real challenge of a full 8 man team but at the same time.



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Even that one is challenging, i always find Rescue hostages from Red Caps or Prevent Fir Bolgs from entering the portal ones more hard. With Red Caps i don't remember a run when at least couple of members end up dead. For Pumpkins, i never seen it completed so far.

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What former power? Mobs weren't really changed at all. Hell CoT behemoths still use their i4 version of the Inv toggle.

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Mobs had much more HP than they have now and some did hit harder than they do now.

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This is the first time I've ever heard anything like this. And I've never noticed it ingame either.

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What former power? Mobs weren't really changed at all. Hell CoT behemoths still use their i4 version of the Inv toggle.

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Mobs had much more HP than they have now and some did hit harder than they do now.

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This is the first time I've ever heard anything like this. And I've never noticed it ingame either.

[/ QUOTE ]Probably because it's just fantasy in an attempt to support a failing argument.

Edit: I'm still looking through ther patch notes to see if there's a "reduced NPC health by X%" anywhere. Something that big would have to be documented.

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I very much doubt they were less powerful than they are now.

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At least on this one you are prolly alone.....
Denying chars got stronger with sets leads to the conclusion you never played the game with sets sry.
Or you just disagree without thinking, just because you love to disaagree.

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They certainly haven't changed the power level of standard mobs since issue 6 and I doubt that they have been made easier before then. I certainly haven't found any patch notes that say as much.
Of course if you have some solid proof that what you say is true (not: "a SG mate said...") then maybe you would have a point.

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There arent any patch notes left from the time they buffed or nerfed mob strenghts, but i bet there are still some veteran players out there who can tell you i am right.
Even the moderators could tell you that i am right.
There were several threads on the US forums discussing the new mob strenghts and buffs... shame they deleted the threads.
There have been many changes to the game which never appeared in patch notes... you might have noticed. :-)

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There once was a time when mobs used to be much harder than they are now.

[/ QUOTE ]When was that? Back before ED when tanks could herd an entire map so the rest of the team could blast then to shreds by the door? They certainly haven't changed the power level of standard mobs since issue 6 and I doubt that they have been made easier before then. I certainly haven't found any patch notes that say as much.
Of course if you have some solid proof that what you say is true (not: "a SG mate said...") then maybe you would have a point.

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I've been largely staying out of this thread (and its "Nerf SS/WP!" twin) because trying to pin down Moghedien on an argument is like trying to nail jelly to the wall.

Get close to something that'd force him to concede he was wrong on some specific and he'll shoot off at a tangent, throw something else that's clearly incorrect in (or at best unprovable - e.g. SS/WP "datamining", dxp weekend dual boxing farmers, CoX is easier than other MMOs, only Ill/Rad controllers can solo GMs, mobs used to be much harder...), and off things go in the new direction.

It's impressive in a way, and very entertaining to read, but in the interests of my blood pressure I'll mostly continue to lurk.

actually i think you'll find most if not all changes to the game do appear in patch notes even changes made during beta are more than likely in patch notes (tho you probably cant find them out with NCsoft)

Also can you tell us when these changes in mob power lvls happened?

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I very much doubt they were less powerful than they are now.

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At least on this one you are prolly alone.....
Denying chars got stronger with sets leads to the conclusion you never played the game with sets sry.

[/ QUOTE ]But you failed to take ED into account. And I very much doubt I'm alone, that's only your opinion. I've been playing this game since just after Villains was release so I am well experience with this game without IOs thank you very much
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Or you just disagree without thinking, just because you love to disaagree.

[/ QUOTE ]No, I'm, disagreeing with you because you haven't presented a single, not one iota, of evidence to back up any of your statements. Nothing at all.

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There arent any patch notes left from the time they buffed or nerfed mob strenghts

[/ QUOTE ]How very convienient.
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There have been many changes to the game which never appeared in patch notes... you might have noticed. :-)

[/ QUOTE ]Yes they're called bugs.

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I very much doubt they were less powerful than they are now.

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At least on this one you are prolly alone.....
Denying chars got stronger with sets leads to the conclusion you never played the game with sets sry.
Or you just disagree without thinking, just because you love to disaagree.


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except sets were part of the ED re balancing characters were only made drastically weaker once and that's when ED was applied before ED most if not all characters were pretty dam god like trollers would frequently have multiple pets tankers could take the damage of the entire map blasters could nuke almost the entire maps spawn and scrappers especially regen ones were like a drugged up Jason at a summer camp ED plus a few other tweaks drastically put a end to much of this and then sets counter balanced it but they did not raise us back to the heights we once soared at.

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There once was a time when mobs used to be much harder than they are now.

[/ QUOTE ]When was that? Back before ED when tanks could herd an entire map so the rest of the team could blast then to shreds by the door? They certainly haven't changed the power level of standard mobs since issue 6 and I doubt that they have been made easier before then. I certainly haven't found any patch notes that say as much.
Of course if you have some solid proof that what you say is true (not: "a SG mate said...") then maybe you would have a point.

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I've been largely staying out of this thread (and its "Nerf SS/WP!" twin) because trying to pin down Moghedien on an argument is like trying to nail jelly to the wall.

Get close to something that'd force him to concede he was wrong on some specific and he'll shoot off at a tangent, throw something else that's clearly incorrect in (or at best unprovable - e.g. SS/WP "datamining", dxp weekend dual boxing farmers, CoX is easier than other MMOs, only Ill/Rad controllers can solo GMs, mobs used to be much harder...), and off things go in the new direction.

It's impressive in a way, and very entertaining to read, but in the interests of my blood pressure I'll mostly continue to lurk.

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Personally im taking it as a new sport beats doing nothing at work for the next 4 hours.

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There once was a time when mobs used to be much harder than they are now.

[/ QUOTE ]When was that? Back before ED when tanks could herd an entire map so the rest of the team could blast then to shreds by the door? They certainly haven't changed the power level of standard mobs since issue 6 and I doubt that they have been made easier before then. I certainly haven't found any patch notes that say as much.
Of course if you have some solid proof that what you say is true (not: "a SG mate said...") then maybe you would have a point.

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I've been largely staying out of this thread (and its "Nerf SS/WP!" twin) because trying to pin down Moghedien on an argument is like trying to nail jelly to the wall.

Get close to something that'd force him to concede he was wrong on some specific and he'll shoot off at a tangent, throw something else that's clearly incorrect in (or at best unprovable - e.g. SS/WP "datamining", dxp weekend dual boxing farmers, CoX is easier than other MMOs, only Ill/Rad controllers can solo GMs, mobs used to be much harder...), and off things go in the new direction.

It's impressive in a way, and very entertaining to read, but in the interests of my blood pressure I'll mostly continue to lurk.

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Clearly incorrect cause YOU say so ?

SS/WP just needs to be datamined, before the devs do that, neither mine NOR your statements are right or wrong.

I can remember all the threads about ET not being too good and cant be nerfed without killing the whole set.
Yet the devs decided that those ppl were wrong and it was too good.
Dual accounts cant be proven, neither by you nor by me, i just said what i saw ingame.

Cox easier than all other mmorpg is proven wrong.
There are some few easier games but many harder ones.

Mobs used to be stronger cant be proven by me since they deleted old posts from US forum, but every dev can tell you that i am right.

Fact is neither me, NOR you can prove all of this without devs help.
I might be wrong on some things so might you. :-)

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Clearly incorrect cause YOU say so ?

SS/WP just needs to be datamined, before the devs do that, neither mine NOR your statements are right or wrong.

Dual accounts cant be proven, neither by you nor by me, i just said what i saw ingame.

Cox easier than all other mmorpg is proven wrong.
There are some few easier games but many harder ones.

Mobs used to be stronger cant be proven by me since they deleted old posts from US forum, but every dev can tell you that i am right.

Fact is neither me, NOR you can prove all of this without devs help.
I might be wrong on some things so might you. :-)

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Nice try, but I'm not biting!

There's been a couple of changed to mobs.

Most notable is the famous purple patch, in where you're much less effective against mobs +5 and higher.
I remember we used to team up in brickstown at 30 and kill the large spawns of 38 and 39's in the south side of brick, was awesome xp

Then after ED, they changed how mobs accuracy worked, that LTs and Bosses don't have more accuracy then minions and so on.

So thats one making em harder, the other making em easier.
Prob been some other minor change i can't remember.


And i've never had to pull anything in CoX. Thats not something which been changed. It was just that in release AoE powers had no limit on how many they would hit, so tankers would go pull up a large bunch of 100-ish mobs, then blaster would lay into em with AoEs.

So the only diffrence now is people are finally realising pulling is no longer favorable, so they just charge right in.

Sure the game have become much easier in some aspects. Like no more +5 bosses in missions (lvl 30 rikti boss when you are 25 was NOT fun). Debt have been reduced so much it's silly, but people did quit over debt back in the day. I know one person who played a blaster and he was utter rubbish and died so much, he had debt cap always and quit in frustation.

So making it harder might not always be better as it could scare off some players.


I think the game is fine overall, but i do would like to see a 6th difficulty setting where the game would spawn much larger groups and actually field some EB's in normal spawns and the named in end would always be a AV.
When i say much larger i would like to see spawns who are 2-3 times as big as they get now. I remember the more fun fights i've done been when we over aggroed and fought for our lives against 3 spawns at once.

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I think that the sky is pink and it rains teddy bears in game, oddly enough the truth says otherwise.

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The sky is pink in Talos when the sun goes down... I've not seen any teady bears though. I guess my graphics card isn't good enough.

Oh i had forgotten about the purple patch them were the days

I suppose also the change to how defence works was a i kind of Mob nerf but to be fair without it most defence based sets were pretty iffy and certainly weaker than there resistance and regen based counterparts.

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I've been playing for the best part of 4 years and still find certain missions a challenge both solo and as part of a team

A few examples.

the Croatoa arcs

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Aaaaarg, that damn thing with the slappy headed pain man.

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Cox easier than all other mmorpg is proven wrong.
There are some few easier games but many harder ones.

[/ QUOTE ]I think the number of responses reporting their experiences in other MMOs has generally refuted that claim.

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Mobs used to be stronger cant be proven by me since they deleted old posts from US forum, but every dev can tell you that i am right.

[/ QUOTE ]Wrong! The earliest change to mobs since the game went live, and it's still there on the Developers section of the US Boards, was the change to Bosses, AVs and GMs. In i3 they were made harder. Both Health and Damage were buffed. Damage to the point where an even level Boss could two-shot an unprepared Defender. Bosses also had silly levels of regen (roughly equivalent to an AV before the last increase given to AVs and GMs in i7). This was partially rolled back and bosses ended up at the power level they are now. So no, you're wrong.

Even Emmert acknowledged that he over did it on that one.

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Aaaaarg, that damn thing with the slappy headed pain man.

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A sadistic Richard O'brian?

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Aaaaarg, that damn thing with the slappy headed pain man.

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A sadistic Richard O'brian?

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Isn't the highlighted bit redundant? Is there any other sort?

Oh, I forgot weird cackling 12th century sorcerer Richard O'Brian, but he seemed pretty sadistic too.

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Oh, I forgot weird cackling 12th century sorcerer Richard O'Brian, but he seemed pretty sadistic too.

[/ QUOTE ]Ah, those were the days. That was when they made a decent Robin Hood TV series.

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Cox easier than all other mmorpg is proven wrong.
There are some few easier games but many harder ones.

[/ QUOTE ]I think the number of responses reporting their experiences in other MMOs has generally refuted that claim.

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Mobs used to be stronger cant be proven by me since they deleted old posts from US forum, but every dev can tell you that i am right.

[/ QUOTE ]Wrong! The earliest change to mobs since the game went live, and it's still there on the Developers section of the US Boards, was the change to Bosses, AVs and GMs. In i3 they were made harder. Both Health and Damage were buffed. Damage to the point where an even level Boss could two-shot an unprepared Defender. Bosses also had silly levels of regen (roughly equivalent to an AV before the last increase given to AVs and GMs in i7). This was partially rolled back and bosses ended up at the power level they are now. So no, you're wrong.

Even Emmert acknowledged that he over did it on that one.

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Some ppl said that there are several much harder games out there.
And maybe most ppl didnt play many other games to compare ?


Aehm you do think before posting do you ?
Since you did just prove by yourself that the mobs used to be much harder, so i wonder how you come up to the conclusion that my statement they were harder was wrong ???
I said there were times mobs were harder than now and that is true.

See the post above for some more info on mob changes :-)

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Cox easier than all other mmorpg is proven wrong.
There are some few easier games but many harder ones.

[/ QUOTE ]I think the number of responses reporting their experiences in other MMOs has generally refuted that claim.

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Mobs used to be stronger cant be proven by me since they deleted old posts from US forum, but every dev can tell you that i am right.

[/ QUOTE ]Wrong! The earliest change to mobs since the game went live, and it's still there on the Developers section of the US Boards, was the change to Bosses, AVs and GMs. In i3 they were made harder. Both Health and Damage were buffed. Damage to the point where an even level Boss could two-shot an unprepared Defender. Bosses also had silly levels of regen (roughly equivalent to an AV before the last increase given to AVs and GMs in i7). This was partially rolled back and bosses ended up at the power level they are now. So no, you're wrong.

Even Emmert acknowledged that he over did it on that one.

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Some ppl said that there are several much harder games out there.
And maybe most ppl didnt play many other games to compare ?


Aehm you do think before posting do you ?
Since you did just prove by yourself that the mobs used to be much harder, so i wonder how you come up to the conclusion that my statement they were harder was wrong ???

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No. He just showed that the mobs were overbuffed and then toned down slightly to their current levels. In other words a net buff.

That's what "partially" means.

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Mobs used to be stronger cant be proven by me since they deleted old posts from US forum, but every dev can tell you that i am right.

[/ QUOTE ]Wrong! The earliest change to mobs since the game went live, and it's still there on the Developers section of the US Boards, was the change to Bosses, AVs and GMs. In i3 they were made harder. Both Health and Damage were buffed. Damage to the point where an even level Boss could two-shot an unprepared Defender. Bosses also had silly levels of regen (roughly equivalent to an AV before the last increase given to AVs and GMs in i7). This was partially rolled back and bosses ended up at the power level they are now. So no, you're wrong.

Even Emmert acknowledged that he over did it on that one.

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Wasn't that changed rather quickly though? I seam to remember that they put it right in a patch rather quickly. I might be thinking of something else of course.

No he just proved that they used to be easier and were made harder in i3 and then AVs and GMs were made even harder still that bit that was rolled back was the ridiculus regen some mobs had to the point that they could not be taken down without a lot of dedicated -regen

and I'm sorry but giving a mob or anything for that matter so much regen that it cant be taken down is

a) not fun
b) a waste of time

and you've yet to tell us when this making the mobs easyer actually happened so far you have not given one example.