[ QUOTE ]
The reason that villains don't wear capes until they hit 20 is simple. Lord Recluse said so. Are you going to argue to the man before you hit a comfortable level and got some allies? I doubt it.
Why are villains allowed to wear shoulder capes? Because the rules say nothing about shoulder capes and for some reason LR is obviously not disapproving of this little rebellion. Why can you wear Valkyrie style capes? Because someone is paying big bribes to allow that particular item to be worn. There is a reason you have to pay so much for that one.
See? Some simple reasonable explanations why this is allowed on the rogue islands based on the game lore and all.
[/ QUOTE ]
But that in term is assuming and in fact straightjacketing every starting Villain to agree with His Nibs. There may be people who want nothing to do with Recluse, or only want to steal from him/usurp him. For example, Lord Atom works for no one but himself, which I represent by choosing Burke as a contact. He couldnt give two hecks what his Lordship things, and will happily radiate anyone six ways from sunday who tries to stop him. The fact is, we are limited only by the level structure and the game engine when it comes to that.
Any and all arguments for the capes are null and void when you have to deal with some capes being available at lvl 1 and some available at lvl 20. Lack of consistancy, canon bending and generally irritating. For those who want there characters to still be learning, simply dont give them a cape until say lvl 20, or even lvl 30 if you dont want to. But for those of us who want the capes on our designed characters from the start, why should we be restricted like that?
(Not aimed full at you Spades, just a general point, based on that point. )
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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But why would a established villain (as that's what you are according to the game) change there costume or follow such a rule they have nothing to prove other than there the destined one i fail to see how wearing a cape helps them do this.
Either:
a) Update the game lore (based on the current 'known' situation in regards to the hero behind the cape /level issue) so that Heroes can have capes at level 1
b) Restrict ALL capes to level 20, following game lore still - allowing some but not all capes (especially since some of the bonus/vet ones are quite nice - better than the standard ones)
c) Make a 'sub-quest' available to characters AT ANY LEVEL (with a decent plot) that allows you to EARN the right to wear capes (The same can be done with auras, since I agree that some characters need auras from level 1, and waiting 30 levels is a bit harsh
[B][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]@Winter Flare[/COLOR] - [url="http://sites.google.com/site/thenewguardians"] The New Guardians[/url] - [url="http://www.badge-hunter.com/index.php?/page/view_player.php?id=339"] 1211 Badges [/url][/B]
[ QUOTE ]
Well said. This is the only problem in this game i see. Yeah you can make your own heroes in a jar which is waiting on the product line to get filled with the same old beans.
Before my two leaves the feeling you described were unbearable, i was hating everything about the game and all that silly contacts giving me same hunt X missions to lead me same old boring Warehouse/Office/Cave... map. Same style, same spawn points only different mobs.
Honestly i don't think having capes or auras on level 1 will help that either, nor having all your powers available from the start.
This is why nowadays i prefer specific missions, even they are same old missions at least i can enjoy them still (Faultline with AVs, Croatoa with red caps or Midnighters Arc with Rikti/Lost/CoT) and past my many hours on TFs.
Maybe it is not my place to say that but Zortel i think you need a break from this game... after some time you maybe will find that refreshness i found my second comeback.
Highest Regards,
Knightly
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Auras and capes at 1 probably won't help, but it'd give me some kind of straw to grasp at. I had an idea for a character, a former 5th Column member, magically empowered by the Thule Society, who defected to the CIA and joined their Omega Unit. Dark/Dark scrapper, dresses in a military-ish uniform with a trenchcoat, hat, mask and squadron goggles with glowing red eyes. I tried leveling him without the glowing red eyes, and it just felt... wrong.
Costumes are iconic. Flimsy lore justifications are just that, flimsy. They can and have changed the lore when they want because they want to.
I could just do the same old missions (Hollows > Faultline > Midnighter > Croatoa/Stirga > Random missions > RWZ/ROman place > PI), but most of the task forces with the exception of Hess, LG, States and Imperious are just like story arcs. Nothing unique about them.
Heck, the new Midnighter Arcs? Nothing unique about them I've found yet. You: get to go to a radio station to stop a woman from playing a cassette with a chaos inducing sound demon on! Cool! Oh wait, it's just another boring office map with a CoT Spectral Daemon boss using negative energy. /golfclap
CoH is instance based. And 90% of the instances and missions suck. My hopes for MA are that it will let people at least use more inventive mission maps we don't get to see, like the DE ruined office, the Hellion office, the nightclub map, outdoor missions that aren't the Kings Row or skyscraper block, but really? They'll probably release that and concentrate on new story arcs. Which are all well and good till you do them the nth time and they're still boring.
Let's take the Bonefire arc.
Stop the Gang War: Abandoned Office Block. Not really a 'Hellion hideout', is it? Where's the magical, demonic symbols? Where's the fire? Where's any of the touches you'd expect from a Hellion hideout? Where's the groups fighting? It's just another standard map with the pretend fights going on.
Take item to Azuria: Oooh, a talky deliver mission. Might as well just FedEx it.
Follow on mission: Another abandoned office building. No personal touches, no hideout, no barricades, nothing. Just the same old dull grey and brown old office map.
Take message to Athena Currie: Woo, another talkie. Why not just call her up? Or even better, why doesn't your contact if he has an important message for her?
Follow on: Skull Hideout. Which doesn't look anything like the hideout of a group who worship death and peddle Dyne. I think it's Yet Another Office Map, or maybe for variety, an abandoned Warehouse map.
Take Item to Carla Brunelli: Metahuman FedEx.
Follow up: Beat gang members up. 20 of each. Do they squeal? Yes, you get a little clue appear after 20 of each done. Why not beat Hellions up till one talks, then Skulls till one talks? Y'know, investigate. Intimidate. Interrogate.
Follow up: Cave map. Woo. Nothing special. Fake fights that make Wrestling seem credible. Or Power Rangers.
Arc over. Damp squib.
Don't get me started on Positron. Where's that TF update?
And there's tons of arcs like that. I've gone off on a tangent here, but I don't really care. It's always going to be shiney new content rather than polish the game as a whole until it gleams.
Yes, I do need a break from the game. But no other MMO takes my fancy at the moment, and I just keep hoping for something, anything to reignite that fire. We have a double XP weekend coming up and really? I don't give a damn.
[ QUOTE ]
c) Make a 'sub-quest' available to characters AT ANY LEVEL (with a decent plot) that allows you to EARN the right to wear capes (The same can be done with auras, since I agree that some characters need auras from level 1, and waiting 30 levels is a bit harsh
[/ QUOTE ]
Why should they have to be earned? What is the benefit to that in terms of game mechanics?
Personally I think introducing Valkyrie and shoulder capes from level 1 wasn't a terribly good idea; either you have a reason for not introducing them from the outset, or you don't - which ever it is, stick to it. Wings I can understand - you either have them or you don't, although I suppose there is an argument that goes along the lines of you "growing" them later or similar - particularly if you're tech origin.
My point is not really one about lore though, and more about character concept. I think we think of all the popular heroes that we know with capes, Superman, Batman, et al and as far as we're concerned, they've always had them from day one haven't they? The fact is, those heroes didn't start off at level 1 as it were. We see them fighting in comics now at level 50.
Think of Smallville - there Superman is still lvl 10ish. He has some of his powers, is yet to discover others, and doesn't have his super suit or cape yet.
Think of what level 1 actually is, and you'll see where I'm coming from.
As for Space Roaming Sun Beasts who cant have fiery eyes from level 1, surely it shouldn't take too large a leap in imagination to explain why said character doesn't have their full abilities? Maybe cloud cover weakens them, maybe the powers are restricted by planetary atmosphere. Frankly I think we should fit our characters to the game, not the game be changed to fit our characters.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
Heh we are in a deep understanding here it seems. I agree other than specific moments on Synapse and Numina all the TFs are same (except the noted ones by you).
I prefer Midnighters instead of Hollows not because it is a brilliant arc but no hunt missions and hours of travel in a non-thrilling land. Here's my leveling recipe:
Level 1-2: Outbreak
Level 2-4: Atlas hunt
Level 4-8: Sewers
Level 8-10: Kings Radio Missions + Atlas Bank
Level 10-15: Invention Tutorial, Midnighters Arc + Kings Bank mission
Level 15 and more: Start Faultline, get bored of that hero and delete. 
I also hope MArch will bring something in. On the other hand with the existing tools there won't be much change to the system, mostly stories will got drowned by same old mission maps...
For me, you are one of the iconic figures of EU servers and forums. I hope devs will do something to keep your interest in this game.
Knightly
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I think we think of all the popular heroes that we know with capes, Superman, Batman, et al and as far as we're concerned, they've always had them from day one haven't they? The fact is, those heroes didn't start off at level 1 as it were. We see them fighting in comics now at level 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I disagree with you. Superman might be level 50 now, but he wasn't Superman until he put the cape on. Before (in Smallville) he was just Clark Kent. Superman wouldn't have to register in Paragon as Clark Kent but he would as Superman.
See, this is why conceptual arguments never work because, conceptually, there are always counter arguments. And if you counter that argument then you are just proving my point 
I have still yet to see a proper argument for not doing this. One which would actually effect the game diversely.
[ QUOTE ]
Frankly I think we should fit our characters to the game, not the game be changed to fit our characters.
[/ QUOTE ]
To counter that; The game needs to constantly evolve in order to stay fresh. This is a simple way that the game can evolve which will benefit every player and harm none.
[ QUOTE ]
I have still yet to see a proper argument for not doing this. One which would actually effect the game diversely.
[/ QUOTE ]cos dev have said so so far with it being lvl 20 and 30 promblem sloved
capes im not too worried about but auras....i do have abit of promblem....i make themed toons and is they been build with radiation i like them to glow green when they start of and not go oh look im level 30 and i forgot to turn on my neon lights 
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Give us auras and capes out of the box, give us a level 10 and 50 costume mission instead. Having to level up to 30 to give my big robot hero glowing eyes? Or sparking electric round my mutant blaster?
Doesn't make much sense.
[/ QUOTE ]
This.
It's one of the most annoying things about this game for me, it completely interferes with concept and is only there to keep you playing.
I doubt many people who are thinking about quitting aren't going to keep their sub open just so they can get glowing eyes.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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I have still yet to see a proper argument for not doing this. One which would actually effect the game diversely.
[/ QUOTE ]cos dev have said so...
[/ QUOTE ]
Have they? When? Quote please! 
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...and not go oh look im level 30 and i forgot to turn on my neon lights
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I always forgot to turn on my stasis protection when I was playing a scrapper for the first time. That lasted about 30 levels.
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I always forgot to turn on my stasis protection when I was playing a scrapper for the first time. That lasted about 30 levels.
[/ QUOTE ]
You should tell Fire Guardian. If Stasis has been stalking you, he'll sort her out for you.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
One of my characters is a Rad/Rad defender. Grey skin and white hair from having had the radiation in her kill off all her pigmentation. Her eyes are supposed to glow, and she wears green tinted glasses. I could use Supernatural Face, but that makes her look much older than a teenager and doesn't let me give her make up. The Combat Auras don't fit her, either darkest green starburst glow or glow would, with her switching to glowing aura at a lighter, more rad blast green in her 'hero suit'.
Fit the character into the concept? Where's the masses of information to let you do that? We have a half finished zone listing, a half finished enemy listing, a small few pages of background and you have to rely on 3rd party sites to get any more information out, especially about Kheldians.
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[ QUOTE ]
I always forgot to turn on my stasis protection when I was playing a scrapper for the first time. That lasted about 30 levels.
[/ QUOTE ]
You should tell Fire Guardian. If Stasis has been stalking you, he'll sort her out for you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now I'm wondering what that kind of stasis protection would look like
[ QUOTE ]
Now I'm wondering what that kind of stasis protection would look like
[/ QUOTE ]
A giant fan.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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[ QUOTE ]
Now I'm wondering what that kind of stasis protection would look like
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A giant fan.
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Naaaah... Yip Yip Aliens. Guaranteed 100% protection from Stasis.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[ QUOTE ]
Naaaah... Yip Yip Aliens. Guaranteed 100% protection from Stasis.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you very much. I've just spat all over my monitor and now people are looking at me. Do you think I'll get away with saying it's a new technique for cleaning them?
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See, this is why conceptual arguments never work because, conceptually, there are always counter arguments. And if you counter that argument then you are just proving my point
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair point. Conceptual diversity can be explained which ever side of the argument you put yourself, in precisely the same way that you can provide a set of statistics to prove a point you want. In some ways that is part of my point. There's equally no reason why a persons character concept can't be moulded to fit in with the game mechanics either. Far easier to make Mohammed come to the mountain as it were.
[ QUOTE ]
I have still yet to see a proper argument for not doing this. One which would actually effect the game diversely.
[/ QUOTE ]
Leaving it as it is won't affect the game diversely either, so not relevant imo.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Frankly I think we should fit our characters to the game, not the game be changed to fit our characters.
[/ QUOTE ]
To counter that; The game needs to constantly evolve in order to stay fresh. This is a simple way that the game can evolve which will benefit every player and harm none.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I suppose that's different horses for different courses. Personally, I don't see this as an evolution, just another dumbing down that this game seems to have applied to it on a regular basis just recently; something else that players no longer have to work towards but are given on a plate.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
See, this is why conceptual arguments never work because, conceptually, there are always counter arguments. And if you counter that argument then you are just proving my point
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair point. Conceptual diversity can be explained which ever side of the argument you put yourself, in precisely the same way that you can provide a set of statistics to prove a point you want. In some ways that is part of my point. There's equally no reason why a persons character concept can't be moulded to fit in with the game mechanics either. Far easier to make Mohammed come to the mountain as it were.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was happy to do that at first, now it just makes me not want to play any character I come up with who should have an aura or a cape.
I hate feeling like an unfinished character playing through this game, this even extends to powers. I'd be happy to have most of the powers I have with a level 50 at level 1, only much weaker, so that I can play through the entire game as the character I imagined when I made them, instead of being forced into being a 'trainee'.
But that's just me.
I don't play much now really, when I do it's usually my Peacebringer as I haven't had to fiddle with his concept. I'm hoping that we have an issue that makes me want to play more before my free time runs out because as things stand right now, if it wasn't free for me then I wouldn't be playing.
Mostly it's down to not having enough money to spend on something that I don't play that often, if I had bags of spare cash then I'd happily keep the sub.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
[ QUOTE ]
There's equally no reason why a persons character concept can't be moulded to fit in with the game mechanics either. Far easier to make Mohammed come to the mountain as it were.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fit the character into the concept? Where's the masses of information to let you do that?... [snip]
[/ QUOTE ]
It might be easier but having capes from level one would, for me and I am sure many others, be more fun. Conversely, I can't see how that would make the game less fun for anyone who is currently opposed to this.
You see having the cape limit is already directly affecting the game diversely because it is stifling creativity. It's the people who have been through this game many times, who want to enjoy there trips to 50 instead of rushing through them and who play the game to create there concept of character who are being directly affected by it. Having capes a level 1 would make there lives better. Where is the detriment in that when considered against the current system?
[ QUOTE ]
... I don't see this as an evolution, just another dumbing down that this game seems to have applied to it on a regular basis just recently; something else that players no longer have to work towards but are given on a plate.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would be interested to know (as an aside form this topic of course) why you think that is a bad thing. Why you consider it dumbing down.
Personally, I feel that there are too many goals to reach in order to have the character that you want (in terms of look) and that can cause, and has caused, some to rush through the levels much faster than they possibly would have. I can't see that as being a good thing.
[ QUOTE ]
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See? Some simple reasonable explanations why this is allowed on the rogue islands based on the game lore and all.
[/ QUOTE ]
But the devs could change that in a second, at there whim. It's no reason not to make them available at level one.
[/ QUOTE ]
The reasons not to are not known by me. But I assume that they want us players to make our characters earn the right to wear capes/auras/get epic powers/get an epic AT to play.
And guess what, I fully agree with those reasons. Because those reasons are the ONLY thing that truly counts. This is a game and you have to earn things in game by reaching milestones. This is NOT a fancy chatboard although you can use it like that.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The reason that villains don't wear capes until they hit 20 is simple. Lord Recluse said so. Are you going to argue to the man before you hit a comfortable level and got some allies? I doubt it.
Why are villains allowed to wear shoulder capes? Because the rules say nothing about shoulder capes and for some reason LR is obviously not disapproving of this little rebellion. Why can you wear Valkyrie style capes? Because someone is paying big bribes to allow that particular item to be worn. There is a reason you have to pay so much for that one.
See? Some simple reasonable explanations why this is allowed on the rogue islands based on the game lore and all.
[/ QUOTE ]
But that in term is assuming and in fact straightjacketing every starting Villain to agree with His Nibs. There may be people who want nothing to do with Recluse, or only want to steal from him/usurp him. For example, Lord Atom works for no one but himself, which I represent by choosing Burke as a contact. He couldnt give two hecks what his Lordship things, and will happily radiate anyone six ways from sunday who tries to stop him. The fact is, we are limited only by the level structure and the game engine when it comes to that.
Any and all arguments for the capes are null and void when you have to deal with some capes being available at lvl 1 and some available at lvl 20. Lack of consistancy, canon bending and generally irritating. For those who want there characters to still be learning, simply dont give them a cape until say lvl 20, or even lvl 30 if you dont want to. But for those of us who want the capes on our designed characters from the start, why should we be restricted like that?
(Not aimed full at you Spades, just a general point, based on that point. )
[/ QUOTE ]
Problem is that your Lord Atom may say what he like. But so long as he ain't a lvl 50 and even after that he is nothing compared to LR. That is the CoH universe you are stuck with. This game is part of the CoH universe. In that Coh universe your villain better do what LR or his arbiters tell you. You can ignore that when you rpg, but you are stuck htat the game you rpg in is the CoH universe. So if you want something rpg wise that the engine does not allow you to do. You will have to make up your own reasons why.
[ QUOTE ]
You see having the cape limit is already directly affecting the game diversely because it is stifling creativity. It's the people who have been through this game many times, who want to enjoy there trips to 50 instead of rushing through them and who play the game to create there concept of character who are being directly affected by it. Having capes a level 1 would make there lives better. Where is the detriment in that when considered against the current system?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but if you not being able to have your cape at level 1 is stifling your enjoyment of the game that much, then maybe it's time for a break. Yes a characters look is important. Hell, given that I've usually burned away all my vet reward tailor tokens before I even get to level 20, I know I'm as aware of this as anyone, but we all know that "limitation" (quotes, because I don't think it is one in the strictest sense) already exists, it doesn't take a big leap in imagination to get around it, especialy if the cape is that important or central to the characters concept.
[ QUOTE ]
I would be interested to know (as an aside form this topic of course) why you think that is a bad thing. Why you consider it dumbing down.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe I explained that in the latter half of that sentance; "something else that players no longer have to work towards but are given on a plate". If you cheapen something that previously had to be earned, it's no longer a reward, there's no longer a sense of achievment when you are given it, and ultimately there becomes nothing else that makes you go "YEEESSS" when you get it. THAT is something that is detremental to the game more than anything.
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I feel that there are too many goals to reach in order to have the character that you want (in terms of look) and that can cause, and has caused, some to rush through the levels much faster than they possibly would have. I can't see that as being a good thing
[/ QUOTE ]
See above. You can never have too many goals. The more goals there are, so long as they are reasonably achievable, the more likely people are to come back to that character to achieve them. Badge hunting is a classic example of this.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
I don't have a problem with capes at 20 and aura's at 30, I just wish that the missions were more INTERESTING and that, in the case of the aura, the explanation wasn't so.. URGH! 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[ QUOTE ]
See? Some simple reasonable explanations why this is allowed on the rogue islands based on the game lore and all.
[/ QUOTE ]
But the devs could change that in a second, at there whim. It's no reason not to make them available at level one.