COH2 predicted by Massively

[ QUOTE ]

While the idea of a KOTOR style morality gauge would be idealistically preferrable I don't think it would fit thematically with the game setting. At some point the powers that be would make a call on whether you are "one of them" or not. Boy scouts aren't welcome in the Rogue Isles, the likes of Scrapyarder and Sea Witch are good examples of what happens to them. Similarly villains or those with villainous leanings don't manage so well in Statesman's back yard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats where 'reputation' as in several other MMOs comes into play. If you do non-boyscout things, your reputation with roque isles would increase. If you have good enough reputation, you would be allowed in there without NPCs trying to attack you. (Its not like the mobs there could stop the heroes anyway) Similarly for more boyscout-zones. Zones would still be open to everyone (apart from level restriction, which is silly) but the function of them would change according to player actions.

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[ QUOTE ]
I just had a brainstorming idea for balancing ATs in CoX. The main problem seems to be disparity between Blue and Red. So, why not take the branching powerset system from VEATs and apply it to ATs. It would take a heckload of tweaking.

For example:
Basic AT: Tough Guy (High HP - Moderate Damage)
Starts off with basic punch-voking taunt mechanic like brutes have. Power sets are as Brute/Tanker with a choice of offence or defence being primary (canot be changed after creation).
At L24 it gets a branching respec into Guardian/Enforcer or Crusader/Brute with modifiers set accordingly (G/E get Gauntlet, a buff to defensive powers and a decrease in damage. C/B get Fury (probably renamed blue side) and slight damage buff.

Something similar could be done for Scrapper/Stalker melee DPS and Defender/Corruptor ranged support. Blaster/Dominator seems like the nearest pairing to fit for these two ATs.
How Controllers and Masterminds would work in this way is my only dead end. Ideas?

[/ QUOTE ]

-pokes and points to the 'Specialisation' thread started under Suggestion-

Maybe im not the only one to think that sounds like a viable idea? Even if it has not a hope in hell under current CoX.

As for the options of all-zone PVP, maybe limit starting zones like Atlas and Galaxy, due to their high security. And, thematically, the city Hall would wnat heroes cleaning out the villains that *do* make it in, like the Hellions, etc.

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[ QUOTE ]
-pokes and points to the 'Specialisation' thread started under Suggestion-

Maybe im not the only one to think that sounds like a viable idea? Even if it has not a hope in hell under current CoX.

As for the options of all-zone PVP, maybe limit starting zones like Atlas and Galaxy, due to their high security. And, thematically, the city Hall would wnat heroes cleaning out the villains that *do* make it in, like the Hellions, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]That's what triggered the idea. I know it wouldn't stand a chance of being considered as a suggestion for the current CoX so I posted it here where balancing has been discussed.

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Noted. Agreed that it will never happen in CoX1 =P

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I say we make all the zones PvP zones and when you die you lose 1/8 of your total xp. It would be utter carnage at first but then an order would come about.

Yes, you would get level 50's obliterating level 1s in Atlas. But give people a travel power at level 1 and a 30 second timer whenever they enter a new zone and that would be enough time to get to a mish or a train station.

Alliences would form.

Be interesting just to see what would happen for 1 day.

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@Sweet Chilli

[ QUOTE ]
I say we make all the zones PvP zones and when you die you lose 1/8 of your total xp. It would be utter carnage at first but then an order would come about.

Yes, you would get level 50's obliterating level 1s in Atlas. But give people a travel power at level 1 and a 30 second timer whenever they enter a new zone and that would be enough time to get to a mish or a train station.

Alliences would form.

Be interesting just to see what would happen for 1 day.

[/ QUOTE ]No need to see. The game would implode within a week of such a change being announced. Subscriptions would vanish faster than ice in a firestorm.
Not that the Devs would be so stupid as to introduce such an obviously suicidal feature into the game.
IT would make the changes to SWG look like nirvana.

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I kinda like the PvP flag idea so PvP could be done in pretty much any zone, but then again I wouldnt want to be stood in Atlas sorting out enhancements and get battered to death just because I had left myself 'flagged' for PvP while I did some tweaking

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Golden-Phoenix - Lvl 50 Fire/Fire Tank
Oodja Nikabolokov - Lvl 50 SS/WP Brute
Baby-Phoenix - Lvl 50 Peacebringer
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could Chuck Norris?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I say we make all the zones PvP zones and when you die you lose 1/8 of your total xp. It would be utter carnage at first but then an order would come about.

Yes, you would get level 50's obliterating level 1s in Atlas. But give people a travel power at level 1 and a 30 second timer whenever they enter a new zone and that would be enough time to get to a mish or a train station.

Alliences would form.

Be interesting just to see what would happen for 1 day.

[/ QUOTE ]No need to see. The game would implode within a week of such a change being announced. Subscriptions would vanish faster than ice in a firestorm.
Not that the Devs would be so stupid as to introduce such an obviously suicidal feature into the game.
IT would make the changes to SWG look like nirvana.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pffft! If everyone was a softie like you!

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@Sweet Chilli

[ QUOTE ]
Pffft! If everyone was a softie like you!

[/ QUOTE ]Being a "softie" has nothing to do with it. Turning the game into a gankfest where dying would cost you earned xp is hardly fun and is not in the slightest bit social.
Being able to chat under Atlas, GG or anywhere for that matter without being shot, held, whacked up-side-the-head or otherwise give a fast track to hospital by some bothersome n00b is one of the nicer things about this game.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pffft! If everyone was a softie like you!

[/ QUOTE ]Being a "softie" has nothing to do with it. Turning the game into a gankfest where dying would cost you earned xp is hardly fun and is not in the slightest bit social.
Being able to chat under Atlas, GG or anywhere for that matter without being shot, held, whacked up-side-the-head or otherwise give a fast track to hospital by some bothersome n00b is one of the nicer things about this game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, this is the sort of idea that would only appeal to someone who thinks that making life unpleasent for other people is the hight of fun (then wonders why no one wants to play with them).

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I really should do something about this signature.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I say we make all the zones PvP zones and when you die you lose 1/8 of your total xp. It would be utter carnage at first but then an order would come about.

Yes, you would get level 50's obliterating level 1s in Atlas. But give people a travel power at level 1 and a 30 second timer whenever they enter a new zone and that would be enough time to get to a mish or a train station.

Alliences would form.

Be interesting just to see what would happen for 1 day.

[/ QUOTE ]No need to see. The game would implode within a week of such a change being announced. Subscriptions would vanish faster than ice in a firestorm.


[/ QUOTE ]

Square Enix and FF11 lol at you for that comment, and PvE is included in the xp/death loss as well. Not that exp matters as it is so stupidly easy to level in this game. Mind you, 12.5% is a fair bit of exp to lose, I think that 5% might be more realistic if this was actually took any further. Besides, with the patrol xp, xp loss would be effectively nullified just in the same way as debt has. Loss of influence/prestige or a % debuff of influence/prestige gained might be more viable.

And in regards to Atlas being turned into a gankfest for world PvP, take a leaf out of WARs book and make certain areas Safe Zones. For example, the capital city and the starting area are safe zones in WAR. Why not make both Atlas Park and Galaxy City safe zones, as well as Co-Op zones such as RWZ etc safe zones too. Wouldn't be hard to implement imo.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I say we make all the zones PvP zones and when you die you lose 1/8 of your total xp. It would be utter carnage at first but then an order would come about.

Yes, you would get level 50's obliterating level 1s in Atlas. But give people a travel power at level 1 and a 30 second timer whenever they enter a new zone and that would be enough time to get to a mish or a train station.

Alliences would form.

Be interesting just to see what would happen for 1 day.

[/ QUOTE ]No need to see. The game would implode within a week of such a change being announced. Subscriptions would vanish faster than ice in a firestorm.


[/ QUOTE ]

Square Enix and FF11 lol at you for that comment, and PvE is included in the xp/death loss as well. Not that exp matters as it is so stupidly easy to level in this game. Mind you, 12.5% is a fair bit of exp to lose, I think that 5% might be more realistic if this was actually took any further. Besides, with the patrol xp, xp loss would be effectively nullified just in the same way as debt has. Loss of influence/prestige or a % debuff of influence/prestige gained might be more viable.

And in regards to Atlas being turned into a gankfest for world PvP, take a leaf out of WARs book and make certain areas Safe Zones. For example, the capital city and the starting area are safe zones in WAR. Why not make both Atlas Park and Galaxy City safe zones, as well as Co-Op zones such as RWZ etc safe zones too. Wouldn't be hard to implement imo.

[/ QUOTE ]Ah but that's FF11, not CoX and there's more to it than just the death penalty. Sweetchilli was advocating having no safe zones, effectively turning the game into one big free-for-all with no safety for newbies, lowbies or non-pvpers. My prediction stands, Square Enix can laugh all they want, they don't run CoX.

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[ QUOTE ]
And in regards to Atlas being turned into a gankfest for world PvP, take a leaf out of WARs book and make certain areas Safe Zones.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that would defeat the purpose of the original suggestion...

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I really should do something about this signature.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And in regards to Atlas being turned into a gankfest for world PvP, take a leaf out of WARs book and make certain areas Safe Zones.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that would defeat the purpose of the original suggestion...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would it? If Atlas park,Galaxy City and mercy island as well as the co-op zones were made safe zones why would that stop world pvp? Its a minimum of 3 zones, and a max of 5 (if you count cimerora). Last time I checked there was more than 5 zones in CoH. Bearing in mind WPvP is never going to be implemented into the current CoX. So whose to say there won't be more zones in CoX2? Surely with the amount of zones they could include from CoX to CoX2 having a minimum of 3 zones which are classed as safe, or closed to WPvP is not going to kill off WPvP as a whole. Would you like to create a toon and be able to get out from the 1st spawning point with no hassle? Or would you prefer a high/capped lvl n00b stand at the spawning point and 1 shot you? But it would only happen the once, correct? No. It wouldn't. Because more than likely there would be another high/capped lvl idiot standing by the hospital ready to put you back in it.

So lets make this crystal clear for you. I am not suggesting that a huge proportion of zones be made as safe zones. I'm suggesting a minimum of 3 (based on the current CoX) zones be made safe for new players so they can get their foot in the door without it being slammed in their face as soon as they create and log in.

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I think you're missing the point here. The original suggestion by Sweetchilli was:
[ QUOTE ]
I say we make all the zones PvP zones and when you die you lose 1/8 of your total xp. It would be utter carnage at first but then an order would come about.

Yes, you would get level 50's obliterating level 1s in Atlas. But give people a travel power at level 1 and a 30 second timer whenever they enter a new zone and that would be enough time to get to a mish or a train station.

Alliences would form.

Be interesting just to see what would happen for 1 day.

[/ QUOTE ]No safe zones. The intention was to turn the game into a gankfest. Adding safe zones would be contradictory to that aim.

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I do believe I am not missing the point. I'll explain why.

The original suggestion about WPvP came from the part of the dicussion involving Hammerfall and Steelrat about how open world PvP would/wouldn't be suited to CoX (or even CoX2). You then came in with your post about how atlas/galaxy would be turned into a gankfest. I suggested an idea which I experienced from WAR, Techbot Alpha also mentioned the same, in response to you saying that it would become a gankfest. I also added to that suggestion with what Sweetchilli had posted, stating that it works in FF11 and wouldn't be much of a problem here either, as long as the...well you get the picture from my elaborated idea.

In regards to sweetchilli's post I only took the idea from it and explanded upon it, not agreeing with it totally and using it as the original point.

Now either PRAF thinks as you did, and thought I was referring to Sweetchilli's post as being the original point, or he thought as I did and was reffering to the WPvP convo by Steelrat, Hammerfall and yourself, Knight. I thought PRAF was responding to me in regards to the latter, hence my response to PRAF.

So many apologies if you got mixed up, but I can assure you I did not. Again I'll state, the original point I was referring to was the WPvP being [ QUOTE ]
Thematically, open PvP suits quite well, actually.

[/ QUOTE ]
which is the original point, and not sweetchilli's post. And that is what my posts are based on.

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I was refering entierly to Sweetchilli's post (which, to be fair, I don't think was entierly serious).

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I really should do something about this signature.

Why push PvP down the throath of those who do not want to? What you if you team up with someone who 'accidently' left his flag on, gank galore. You would need to split servers into a pvp and non-pvp, not to think about the broadcast chat about every freaking gank-whiner in the place.

We forgot the confuse-atlas nuke incident? That is what atlas would be, bunch of lvl1-5's decide to enable their flag to punch eachother for fun, lvl50 kicks in, whoomp 10 death on the ground. Just put the PvP where it belongs, deserted maps where people can openly yell and curse on the broadcast, without annoying those who just play this game as PvE.

Nice to refer to games that have world pvp, but those are buid around that idea. CoH never was, never will, or they just as well ditch CoH and make CoH2. Besides that, NC got Aion and GW2 comming up, i really dont think CoH will be high on the 'priority'list as long they can maintain a steady playerbase (US for that mather).

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50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore

Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!

[ QUOTE ]
Why push PvP down the throath of those who do not want to? What you if you team up with someone who 'accidently' left his flag on, gank galore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well no because the flag would be visible and you'de point it out to that player, no? Really, I think thats a minor issue.

the trouble with PvP going forward is its such a mess now. Made far worse by Castles interference. To make it work now, to my mind requires a step by step process that could end up in the possible CoH2.

for example, as I stated, I believe one issue with PvP is that the zones are away from PvE. So a casual player who doesnt fancy PvP doesnt get an opportunity to see it first hand and maybe get tempted to have a go. Because they cant be bothered to go to a PvP zone in the first place.

Thats why, to begin with, I think controlled PvP (SG v SG possibly should be allowed in any zone.

Next I think they should merge the games, allowing villians and heroes to enter enemy territory for game reasons (prizes in enemy zones, missions etc) And although they cant attack someone in enemy zone, they CAN be attacked.

I think that, with PvE players going about their business and suddenly theyre witness to a PvP fight, at least some of em will want to try it themselves.

Which brings me to powers. I personally just dont understand why a player would want to build up their alts powers only to find they work not as intended in PvP, for the sake of parity.

If we accept that there are simply too many variables of power sets to ever be balanced, that each attempt to balance simply creates resentment and a whole new set of imbalances, then we can move forward.

Not to mention that we had a whole lot of fun in the early stages of PvP, when Tankers were Tankers and blasters were blasters etc etc.
What let PvP down then wasn't really the sets or imbalances (although its true there were tweaks required) but the lack of content for PvP, which exists to this day, even after CoV came out.

Sorry but if im an invulnerable Tank and we're soloing, you should have a real problem with me. Thats why I chose that power set in the first place. To simulate being an invulnerable character. Seems a bit daft if I'm one shotted every 5 minutes.

So, the game could invent craftable temporary items that may help even the odds.
That's thematic and makes sense.

And rock, scissors paper is a perfectly reasonable play style particularily in teaming.

Thats my penny worth anyhow.


[ QUOTE ]
Just put the PvP where it belongs, deserted maps where people can openly yell and curse on the broadcast, without annoying those who just play this game as PvE.

[/ QUOTE ]
As long as you are not forced to participate if you dont want to then it belongs in the open game, not shunted aside, for reasons i gave earlier this post.

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Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick

Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven

2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...

The empty PvP areas tell the story.

No, just no.

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�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org

EU, Union mostly.

[ QUOTE ]
I was refering entierly to Sweetchilli's post (which, to be fair, I don't think was entierly serious).

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure he/she was serious, but tbh it wasn't that ludicrous...this time. (Now I'm waiting for the loving comment in response to this )

[ QUOTE ]
What you if you team up with someone who 'accidently' left his flag on, gank galore.

[/ QUOTE ] Just because they have left theirs open, doesn't mean that you can become a target as well, unless you heal/buff them in anyway. It is the same in most WPvP games. WAR would be one such example.

[ QUOTE ]
not to think about the broadcast chat about every freaking gank-whiner in the place.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you cannot rise above it, then thats why the /ignore option was invented. One of the best tools ever, I may add.

[ QUOTE ]
We forgot the confuse-atlas nuke incident? That is what atlas would be, bunch of lvl1-5's decide to enable their flag to punch eachother for fun, lvl50 kicks in, whoomp 10 death on the ground.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be another reason to support starting areas as "Safe Zones".

And I agree in regards to CoX/CoX2 never having the WPvP option implemented, its too far into the game (sorry for the pun) for it to be developed, as there are at least 2 other games (WAR & WoW) that can do it so much better and have the time, budget, experience and feedback to develop it according to how the players want etc. Its a shame though, because WPvP would be nice with a genre such as CoX.

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[ QUOTE ]
The empty PvP areas tell the story.



[/ QUOTE ]

It's empty now because of the state it's in. If things had gone better development side (such as listening to feedback in regards to rewards etc) then it would have been more appealing to a broader range of players rather than just those who play the game primarily for PvP.

Like Lionsbane said, no shunting aside, because it isn't fair imo.

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My first encounter with another person in CoH was with a very friendly person willing to help me get to grips with the game.

My first encounter with another person in WoW was a high level character asking me if I wanted to duel then abusing me for not putting on my PvP flag.

This is pretty much my experience of the difference between WPvP and separate PvP and is why I dislike WPvP. Perhaps I was just hideously unlucky to get a bad introduction to it, but it has put me off the idea.

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PvP won't appeal to a lot of players because they have no interest or enjoyment in competing with those that do enjoy it.
I can ignore a player I don't want to play with, I can refuse to play with them and they don't bother me.
If this change happens, all I can do is leave the game to not interact with them, /ignore will be irrelevant.

And don't give me that [censored] about making more people try it to get everyone to enjoy it. Not everyone will enjoy it, please accept that however much PvPers like it, some will always hate it.

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�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org

EU, Union mostly.

[ QUOTE ]
And don't give me that [censored] about making more people try it to get everyone to enjoy it. Not everyone will enjoy it, please accept that however much PvPers like it, some will always hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not, as you put it, [censored].

Of course not everyone will enjoy it. But, if theyre exposed to it, SOME players will have a go and WILL enjoy it.
And thats more than there are currently right? And hopefully as time goes on even more will do so.

Cant see anything wrong with that.

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Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick

Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven

2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...