Bring Back the Challenge!!!
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2008-12-22 18:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
^ This! The game has gotten WAY too easy over the last few issues. Can we have some challenge back please?
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
i heartilly agree with all of this! things have been made way too easy
@Doctor Destiny
...from the Ryman League of posters
http://drdestiny.deviantart.com/
blog-thing
Well said dude!!
At the risk of sounding like a Monty Python skit 
I remember the days of debt at lvl 10, being terrified of reds and purples, taking ages to get back to missions because I didn't have the travel pack from the Safeguards etc.
It was a much more challenging game and therefore much more satisfying to get to 50!!
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
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I didn't have the travel pack from the Safeguards etc.
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Travel Pack? Safeguards? What are these things of which you speak?
Are they related to that stupid radio device thingy you get at level 5?
Does it reflect bad on me that my mains still can't play in any setting but the lowest one, I can't take down an EB with any of them and I still find the game quite hard when playing with them?
Does it?
Hmmm?
One man's easy, is another man's hard.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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I didn't have the travel pack from the Safeguards etc.
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Travel Pack? Safeguards? What are these things of which you speak?
Are they related to that stupid radio device thingy you get at level 5?
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Fair point, I don't have to get them 
But it's still a much easier game than it used to be
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
Agree totally with this post, its become that easy its boring 
A slower levelling grind doesn't make for a harder one. Just a more annoying one. TBH, I expect the only reason the game is "easier" is because you're more experienced with it.
I enjoyed The Hollows how it used to be with the horrific mobs and mission distances, all a redux needed was a Med Camp/Trainer like the ones eventually provided, there was no need to scale the mobs down in my opinion... or maybe thats just the sadist in me.
The greater the risk, the finer the feeling of achievement.
Nowadays these young recruits have it handed to them on a silver plate, and are sorely lacking in judging aggro distance - wasn't like that in my day! etc etc.
/em,lecture
Agree totally with this. Kudos for pointing this out.
Bring back the challenge. Hell reintroduce the massive regen buff the AVs got just to show people what we put up with in the old days.
Yea it's kinda easy to level up now...
My sword/shield scrapper is already 50 and i didn't go out of my way to level fast. Did bunch of TF's exemplared down etc, avoided solo etc.
I hear in I14 that all mission doors will be located at the bottom of a ski slope - you have to get dowbn it in under 50 seconds, otherwise, you fail the mission and lose a level.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I will be sorted then. Especially since i heard u get a rare recipe for every second under 50, and a purple for every second under 45 :P
Would the easiest way of making it harder without putting some people off be to add a new level of difficulty above Invincible?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
maybe like a "old school invincible" or "proper hard" ?
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A slower levelling grind doesn't make for a harder one. Just a more annoying one. TBH, I expect the only reason the game is "easier" is because you're more experienced with it.
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I'm not advocating a "slower levelling grind" Syracuse. There are a number of ways to make things tougher. Just boosting debt to older levels would make people think twice (I hope) but as GG suggests adding a difficulty level above Invincible would be optional.
We have certain challenges we can increase the difficulty on, especially on Ouroboros & TFs... so maybe make that how you level. Go to a trainer and choose your custom diff setting?
To give you a clue, my girl - a recent convert from that other game we shall not mention - got defeated this weekend and ended up with (wait for it) a whole 1/4 bar of debt. She complained bitterly that she'd never had that much debt. (To which I couldn't help but chuckle. With Scarlet I'd got of the debt badges by lvl 20 IIRC.)
Sure, as I said I AM a better player than I was. But that doesn't alter the fact the game's way easier than it needs to be and NCSoft are doing the game and themselves a disservice in making it so easy IMO
Thelonious Monk
I mostly agree with everything you said. I still miss the old challenge of the hollows and the "avoid the fire patch on the ground!" moments in there.
Maybe whats needed is not more buffs/debuffs to enemies, but more difficulty settings to determine the amount of enemies on each map. Easily farmable yes, but to a lot of players, small amount of players v LOTS of enemies = one hell of a scrapperlock moment (fun).
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Scarlet_Shocker: This may be somewhat controversial, but I suspect I'm not alone in this. I could be in a minority, I accept but I truly believe it's a significant one.
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From my own personal point of view - you are not in the minority. I have heard many people say similar things. Well done for raising this! It's about time someone said it, and I'm glad it's been raised now.
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Scarlet_Shocker: Defeat Debt has been so reduced as to be totally meaningless. It's pointless now, whereas when I first came to the game it was something to be avoided. I'm convinced that the fear of debt improved my game play. Now the biggest hassle isn't the debt, it's finding a way to avoid the trek back from the hospital and even that's made easy by fabrication of wakeys.
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How very very true. Without wishing to sound like an old man... I remember building up so much debt on my main in the 30/40 range that I had to beg to join a the Hollows to exmp to work it off. I strongly believe that debt should be restored to it's old levels. I think it's a sign that debt is not a problem when you can die at the mid point of a mission and the debt is cleared with the mission bonus.
Debt needs to be a challenge to players.
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Scarlet_Shocker: Time was, any enemy conning red would make even a good team pause and take stock. Now only the most dysfunctional teams fail to munch through purple mobs.
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Again very true, seems the team I join only like doing purples because they repersent something of a challenge, but not in my opinion enough of one.
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Scarlet_Shocker: So please Devs... give us back something to get our teeth into!
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Signed - please please please etc...
There must be a quick fix to this - purhaps reworking the stats (HP, DAM, RES, DEF etc) of the reds and purples?
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FloatingFatMan: The game has gotten WAY too easy over the last few issues. Can we have some challenge back please?
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Didn't think I'd be posting a comment like this anytime soon - but I agree!
I play a hero, I want to be heroic, fighting the forces of evil should be a challenge, I want to feel like Superman fighting Doomsday, or Batman fighting Bane. At the moment it feels like Jerry fighting Tom, I'm always going to win.
Please - power that be - if your reading this thread give us a real challenge, make it optional if you have too, as not to fighten then newer gamers, but some of us older vets want the challenge back in this wonderful game!
I also have to agree since I leveled 50 with my villain I really see no point in making any more alts as I can think up atleast 5 different quick'n'easy ways to get them up to level 50 which is not right imho and it's kinda putting me off from playing CoX...
Personally I'd like to see them put street XP and Mission XP back at the same level then I'd like them to double it maybe even triple it what with patrol XP i don't even see the det on some toons.
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Debt needs to be a challenge to players.
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The only way for debt to be a challenge would be for the debt-payback share of your XP to be 100% instead of 50% - and that would be disastrous for the game.
DCUO and CO will never see my money. The Citygame will keep seeing my money for as long as I keep enjoying it
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Debt needs to be a challenge to players.
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The only way for debt to be a challenge would be for the debt-payback share of your XP to be 100% instead of 50% - and that would be disastrous for the game.
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Gotta say I don't necessarily agree with this on either point.
When it was 50% it was tough when you had enough of it
And 100% repayment would mean it cleared quickly so why would it be a disaster.
Jade Warrior made a point I forgot to mention in my post but I did make it to Rockjaw during Omega-Con... there is almost no reason to exemp down other than teaming with a buddy. Debt is so meaningless that there's no reason for anyone to seek to work it off now.
I remember when as a newbie I'd regularly find a 50 in the Hollows teaming with us to work off his debt.
Thelonious Monk
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Jade Warrior made a point I forgot to mention in my post but I did make it to Rockjaw during Omega-Con... there is almost no reason to exemp down other than teaming with a buddy. Debt is so meaningless that there's no reason for anyone to seek to work it off now.
I remember when as a newbie I'd regularly find a 50 in the Hollows teaming with us to work off his debt.
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This was also a good way for veteran players to pass on learning to newer players.
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there is almost no reason to exemp down other than teaming with a buddy.
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Or just to help someone
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
This may be somewhat controversial, but I suspect I'm not alone in this. I could be in a minority, I accept but I truly believe it's a significant one.
Let me start by saying where I'm coming from. When I started in 2006, the game was significantly harder than it is now. It was a slower drive to 50, with many more challenges in than now.
Partly that was because end-game content was far less but also because of a different mind-set between Cryptic and NCSoft.
With NCSoft taking over the IP I've noticed a dramatic dumbing down of the game. The route to lvl 50 to me seems way too easy, and in fact the lack of a challenge now means that once I get a level 50 I rarely play that toon because... well, no effort means no meaning.
The XP curve was "smoothed" out around Issue 11... which actually translates as "make it a lot lot easier."
Defeat Debt has been so reduced as to be totally meaningless. It's pointless now, whereas when I first came to the game it was something to be avoided. I'm convinced that the fear of debt improved my game play. Now the biggest hassle isn't the debt, it's finding a way to avoid the trek back from the hospital and even that's made easy by fabrication of wakeys.
Time was, any enemy conning red would make even a good team pause and take stock. Now only the most dysfunctional teams fail to munch through purple mobs.
Squishies can now solo on invincible (and believe me, I have)
It's hardly "heroic" (or indeed "villainous") to right wrongs or do evil when there's nothing difficult about it. The whole philosophy of the game now seems to be "make it easy so they'll play more." I don't believe that is the case. I think make it challenging and it keeps people keener for longer.
I do agree that it's a fine line. With Jack Emmert at the helm, things were arguably too tough. Positron, IMO has swung the pendulum too far in the other direction.
Sure, I'm happy to admit that almost 3 years down the line I'm a better player than I was when I started... but that's partly because I had to be. If I didn't, I'd be face planting with (at least) a bar of debt and a long trek back from the hospital.
I'm aware that by posting this I could be seen as one of the old men from the Python sketch: "When I were a lad..." but that's to misunderstand my point - the game is great. It doesn't need to be dumbed down to make it fun. In fact the opposite is true. Make it consistently challenging and rewarding and it's an improvement.
So please Devs... give us back something to get our teeth into!
Thelonious Monk